Too Confused!

[juliefurry]

Ok, I am too confused on the puppy food to buy for my puppy. I have him on Iams now, but after reading about the Iams situation I am going to switch him as soon as this bag is done. My vet recommends Science diet and sent me home with not one but two free 5 pound bags (why two I don't know). I thought about maybe switching him to Science diet but then I heard also that wasn't too good for them. The breeder had him on Diamond's large breed puppy formula, which is impossible for me to find in any pet store. Is there any store bought dog food that would be exceptable for my puppy? All of the foods that you are reccomending for dogs I can not find near us. I am SO confused at what would be best for my puppy. I hate constantly switching his food but I don't want to feed any of my animals Iams anymore after what I saw on the website.

[Saje]

Ah, Julie. It is a confusing thing.

I don't think anyone here would recommend Science Diet either. Everything I've read says that vets do not learn a lot about nutrition and are often paid to distribute a certain brand.

The most recommended brand of dog food on this site is Innova's EVO www.naturapet.com. I've heard good things about:
Eagle Pack holistic www.eaglepack.com
http://www.chickensoupforthepetloverssoul.com/

There are more. Look for products that are 'made with human grade meat' and organic ingredients.

Use this comparison tool at Innova's site to learn more about dog food ingredients and compare their brand to others.

Also, you can ask your pet store to bring in a product like Innova. Or give them a list and see what they can do

[bubbatd]

What ever you decide to feed, don't wait until the bag is empty......start adding what you plan to switch to slowly.

[CreatureTeacher]

Here's a thread on the raw diet, where I posted some links to learn about it. Just in case you're interested: http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2548

[Saje]

Sorry. Forgot to mention raw! It seems like a lot of work even though I"m thinking about starting it.

[Renee750il]

ROFL! Saje, I can just see Steve's face when you're buying meat for the dogs but not for him . . . :D

[Saje]

LOL I know! I buy meat for him but not often. LOL I made him REAL shephard's pie last night (and a tofu version for me). Aren't I a good gf? :D

Seriously, I can't find a good brand here. They hardly ever have the Eagle Pack in stock and all the rest is garbage. Steve saw how much I was paying out here for Eagle Pack and other brands and was extremely annoyed that they would charge that much. They do have to ship it a long way as we live at least a 24 hour drive from any major city and those cities aren't close to wear it's manufactured.

Anyway, we figured since this THE place to hunt/fish and I see sales on meat and fish all the time that might be a better way to go. At least I'll know what's going into it.

Now, for the research...

[Renee750il]

Oh, and Julie, don't be bamboozled by foods that tout "all natural" ingredients. That means absolutely nothing! It can still include ingredients loaded with pesticides, hormones, chemicals, drugs, ad nauseum - just another phrase manufacturers use to fool the consumer.

[juliefurry]

Well I just went out and bought Mack a 33 lb bag of Eagle Pack Large/giant breed puppy formula. I am going to switch him to that because I can not find any of the other food mentioned to me. As soon as his Iams (eww...yuck...barf) starts running out I am going to switch him to the Eagle Pack brand and keep him on that from now on.

[CreatureTeacher]

Try buying smaller bags. You shouldn't store the food for longer than 3 months. After that it begins to turn rancid. It also helps if you store it in an airtight container.

[juliefurry]

I have an airtight container for his food. I originally started out with a small bag of Iams so I only have a little bit left so I have to start switching him pretty soon. I really didn't feed him the Science diet because they gave me regular puppy formula and not large breed. I usually don't buy really big bags but my husband INSISTED that I buy him the big bag of it. I will keeep that in mind if I have the food for more than three months I will dispose of it.

[Renee750il]

I wouldn't worry too much about the food lasting longer than three months. Your Pit mix is probably going to be eating enough of it to take care of that. ;)

[juliefurry]

I doubt that I will have to worry about the food going to waste either. He seems to really like the canned food though, I have started giving him that already. He likes the Eagle Pack canned food better than the Iams that I was giving him, he's more eager to dive in and eat it. He can be a pig at time and his appetite is beginning to increase almost a whole cup from when we got him.

[1sweetnopichick]

What's wrong with Iams? My vet recommend feeding our boxers Purina One Lamb & Rice so that's what they've ate for apx a year and they love it. They have a shiny coat and perfect check-ups at the dr, healthy white teeth and not too bad of breath either - I don't feed Iams but I was curious as to why your not supposed to... I had never heard that before. I did however try that new Iams savory sauce and it made them real sick - I just posted a question on it as a matter of fact.

[Mordy]

iams, like many other "popular" brands, is a product made from poor quality ingredients. if you want more details, click my signature image below and set some time aside for reading. :)

[CreatureTeacher]

Mordy nailed it. Read this too: http://www.api4animals.org/79.htm
I will never feed a commercially prepared food to my dogs. It sounds like your kids may have good genetics on their side, 1sweet, but I've fought through enough tooth decay, cancer, endocrind disorders, and digestive issues to have had my fill of that awful stuff!

[juliefurry]

I decided that I had to switch foods after I went on the eagle pack website (eaglepack.com). I couldn't understand why I fed my dogs Iams when eagle pack was better for them. I wasn't really informed when I started feeding my pets though I figured it was good because the commercial told me. I guess I'll have to investigate stuff more next time I have to decide on something. :rolleyes:

[MikeAndAnnie]

I used the tool on the innova site to compare
Canidae dry and Innova EVO dry:

http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=comp-wiz

What I did not understand was that the Innova DRY contained
turkey separate from turkey meal. Yet, the description they
provided of the turkey doesn't sound like it was, or could be, in
a *dry* form other than as 'turkey meal'.
Can someone help clear this up?
Thanks!

[Renee750il]

Mordy nailed it. Read this too: http://www.api4animals.org/79.htm
I will never feed a commercially prepared food to my dogs. It sounds like your kids may have good genetics on their side, 1sweet, but I've fought through enough tooth decay, cancer, endocrind disorders, and digestive issues to have had my fill of that awful stuff!


Not to mention the skin problems that seem to always catch up with them as they get older, even when they've seemed perfectly healthy their entire lives! I don't ever want another animal of mine to go through that if I can possibly avoid it!

[juliefurry]

My Mack's skin is SO much better now that I have switched to Eagle Pack! He had really bad dandruff when we got him and now it's gone. I don't know if the food or the brushing and everything but I definetely notice a difference in his skin and coat.

[Doberluv]

I will never feed a commercially prepared food to my dogs.

Creature Teacher, does that include the premium type foods such as Innova, Canidae, Natural Balance, Chicken Soup and some of those others? Or when you say commercial, do you mean the junk found in grocery stores? I'm feeding Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance. It's the one food I found that agreed with Lyric. He tended toward diarrhea with some of the foods with many meats, like Chicken Soup, Canidae etc. This one seems to work for him, but there's no variety. So.....

That article is freaky. But when they give the sample diet, they include starches, veggies and grains, suppliments and vitamins. I thought that dogs in the wild don't eat much of that stuff and eat just meat. And I thought that meat was suppose to have everything in it that they need. Would that be raw meat and not cooked? But they mentioned the risks of raw meat.

I have a friend who, if I buy the sportsman package, ($100) that is a fishing licence and hunting license (tags for bear, elk, deer, turkey) he will hunt for me and can almost guarantee a deer and a bear. If he's lucky, an elk.) I'd get 1/2 of what he shot. Plus I'd need to pay about $80.00 for butchering, wrapping etc.Do you think that would be a good idea? I don't eat too much meat, but if I had my freezer full, maybe that would be good for the dogs...no preservatives or antibiotics in wild game. I'd have to learn how to do this which is scary...gotta get all the suppliments and vit. right, plus that stuff for dogs prone to cardiomyopathy.

So, what do you think? My Doberman is 93 LBS now and he'd need 3 times what that sample diet showed for amounts. That could be pricey if you bought that much meat in the store, right?

[CreatureTeacher]

There are a lot of opinions as to what to feed and how to feed it, but I'll tell you mine.

My dogs don't eat cooked food ever. That includes anything found in a bag or in kibble form. I've heard of some dogs not being able to tolerate certain raw ingredients, but I've never heard of one that didn't do well on some raw meat or another. My dogs also never get fruit, or grains like wheat or rice. In my experience, grains make them gassy, and gas is a sign of digestive issues. Some people do feed grains, though. My dogs' diet usually consists of probably 80-90% meat, bone, organs, and connective tissue, with the remaining 10-20% being supplemental foods like eggs, the occasional liquified veggies, rarely some dairy like yogurt, straight vitamins and nutritional supplements (but only when needed), bone meal, some sugar-free peanut butter in their Kongs, and various other bits and pieces. They all fast one day a week with only water and just a smidge of liquified veggies to keep their tummies quiet. Some people feed a "primitive" raw diet, consisting entirely of meat, bones, and organs.

I work loosely with a man who knows more about canine nutrition than anyone has any right to know, and I agree with his determination that the key to a dog's health is a varied diet. My dogs never get bored with their food, because at different times they have different tissues from different animals.

I would absolutely take advantage of whatever meat your friend brings you, but I would have it tested for dangerous prions before I gave it to my dogs. Don't butcher it too hard, though. I'd have it skinned, but otherwise let them pick and choose what they want.

Price isn't something that worries me. You could pay an extra 80 cents per pound for healthier food now and avoid a $9,000 surgery in the future due to bone and muscle tissue degeneration. In my opinion, it's cheaper in the long run to feed your dogs something they can digest and get nutrition from. In my training career, I can say with complete confidence that dogs who eat raw have fewer behavioral problems, are more able to learn and adapt, and are emotionally better adjusted than their kibble-eating counterparts. (It makes sense; if you ate "Peeps" three meals a day for your whole life, you'd probably have some problems too!) So you don't just save on vet bills, you save on training costs. You keep friends because your dogs don't fart or have that "doggy smell". Their fur also looks and feels better. But the real reason I do it is because I really care about my dogs' comfort and happiness. A meal of kibble can stay in a dog's digestive system for 10 hours while his intestines try to process it; a meal of raw meat is digested and usually passed in less than 5 hours.

So I think: Go for it!!! The general rule is to feed 2% of your dog's body weight a day, then adjust the amount as the dog's needs become clear. So good luck! You can always PM me if questions come up. I'm not an expert, but I can tell you what I've learned through experience.

[Love4Pits]

I mainly feed organic raw but the dogs get kibble mixed in with their raw once every other week. I buy Innova for my dogs in my opinion its the best thing out there kinda tough to find if you don't know where to look though.

[Doberluv]

Thanks C.T. and Love4pits. I just found out that if I buy the hunting license, (because he's bought his own too) he can shoot the animal, but I have to be present in case a game warden comes along. He can't tag an animal from someone else's license. A-h-h-h. I might not be able to handle watching an animal shot. I'm a wuss. :eek: I'm not against hunting at all, as it is healthier for the species as a whole, now that we've upset the balance of nature, (of course, here, where I live, it's a pretty intact ecosystem) but I don't know if I can stand there and watch. Oh gee.....But it would be the best meat....all natural, no antibiotics, no preservatives, low in fat.

Anyhow, I'm seriously going to look into this. It sounds easier to just feed meat, but those who do....are they missing anything. I mean...you give suppliments. Is that needed? Vitamins, bone meal etc? There are those ones that are good for dogs prone to cardiomyopathy which would be good, huh.

Well, I certainly do appreciate your information and testimonials. Thanks!

[juliefurry]

Yeah but what about those people who simply can not afford to feed their dog(s) a raw diet. That can get REALLY expensive. Are you saying they don't care for their dogs as good as the people feeding raw?

[Love4Pits]

I never said that im just saying what I DO. I know not everyone can afford it *shrugs* doesent mean you don't love your dogs.

I don't think I even HINTED at that sorry if you felt that way I don't think CT mean anything but good either. don't read so much into it

[juliefurry]

No, I'm sorry. I was just having a really bad five minutes when I posted that. Trouble with bills and all that fun stuff. My fault though, forget I mentioned that. I can get testy about stuff when I'm under a lot of stress.

[Saje]

Yeah but what about those people who simply can not afford to feed their dog(s) a raw diet. That can get REALLY expensive. Are you saying they don't care for their dogs as good as the people feeding raw?

I don't think anyway implied that. There are some good quality kibbles out there.

[CreatureTeacher]

No worries, Julie. Frankly, my dogs eat a lot better than I do most the time. I'm a weirdo. :) And I don't know how I'm going to pay my car note this month, either. So I feel your pain!

Doberluv, you should try to get a copy of Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats. You could probably get it fairly cheap on amazon.com. There's a lot of really good information to get you started in there. I don't agree with all the nutritional information, but everyone ends up customizing their dogs' diets anyway.

[Doberluv]

Thanks CT. I did read about 1/2 of Give your dog a bone. It looked kind of elaborate, adding all these different things on different days...kind of a hassle and more than that, kind of confusing. LOL.

I'll get that book you mentioned. Maybe it's better. Thank you for the help.

[Mordy]

i'm not a big fan of billinghurst at all.

another book you might want to look into on feeding raw is kymythy schulze's "natural nutrition for dogs and cats". i don't agree with everything she says either, but it's sound advice and easy to follow. :)

pitcairn's book is definitely worth buying, since it has really good info on care as well as feeding. :)