Aspen Kennels - Should be called "Mixes R Us" [Archive]

BSan

10-13-2006, 12:05 AM

Our family is blessed with a beautiful silver frosted goldendoodle from "Aspen Kennel". His wonderful temperament, his eagerness and ability to learn, his gorgeous sweet face, and beautiful coat (which very barely sheds), are just a few ways to describe our puppy. Included in the price, our puppy came with a medium wire crate, large grooming kit, shampoo and conditioner, collar, food samples, treats, toys, and more......... basically everything we needed for him. All puppies are guided in a program called the SuperDog program, a way of training small new puppies to aid in their ability to learn. You can look it up on their website or on the internet. In dealing with the breeders, we have talked at length many times, and have found them to be very knowledgeable, loving to their dogs/puppies, very supportive, very particular in knowing about who is purchasing their puppies, and overall after researching and talking to other breeders, very true, real dog lovers. People may knock the combo, but we feel we have the best of both. It is truely up to each dog owner what type of dog they prefer, as well as how much they choose to pay. Puppy mill type places are offering these dogs for 800$ with no guarantee or vet check. It is the responsibility of everyone looking for a dog to check out to their best ability, who they are purchasing their pet from. We are completely happy. People stop us almost everyday, and ask us about our puppy..........what type he is, and where we purchased him. Everyone as a right to their own opinion and preferences. We absolutely love our puppy!

taratippy

10-13-2006, 08:08 AM

Oh and they are all such rare breeds! Um no theres plenty just like them in pounds over here and they are not a breed

BSan

10-13-2006, 10:05 AM

It is true, many dogs of ALL TYPES AND BREEDS end up in shelters. People get tired of them, they are neglected, abused and for dog lovers, it is beyond apprehension.
As far as whether to haggle over "breed", or "rare breed" , I suppose it is an attention getter. It really doesn't matter to us if they are a "breed" or not. The color of our dogs is not the norm, and even that doesn't really matter. We happened to like the silver color, and the thick fluffy coat, the breeders, and the parents of our pup. We had three wonderful yellow labs over the years, and every one of them we loved dearly....they were the greatest dogs. The last was the absolute best. We went for a total change this time, wanted a large dog, one that shed less, a totally different color, not necessarily a curly standard poodle, one that friends who have allergies can come and visit without having to leave, one that we knew a bit about the backround and temperament because of our 15 mth. old grandaughter. So, you can make jabs at goldendoodles, the people who buy them, or the breeders, and the way they advertise, but that doesn't change anything except you voiced your opinion, which is your right.
Just for your info, those breeders take in and train dogs for shelters (so that they are more easily adopted), and find homes for lost or abandoned dogs (which they have driven a distance to their new homes). Whole litters of dogs have been bought, cared for, and found homes for, all on their own time, and expense. So, just to say it is easy to judge people you don't know.

summitview

10-13-2006, 11:02 AM

So, you can make jabs at goldendoodles, the people who buy them, or the breeders, and the way they advertise, but that doesn't change anything except you voiced your opinion, which is your right.

Hopefully, aside from voicing our opinions regarding breeding ethics, we also are able to educate the general public as to what type of breeding practices to support.

~Jessie~

10-13-2006, 11:22 AM

There was a survery somewhere on the internet that I saw a while back... it paired a shelter mix, with a breeder bred mix side by side... you had to choose which one came from a shelter. It was IMPOSSIBLE to tell the difference.

I can't stand breeders who breed mixed breeds. I love mixed breed dogs, but no one should purposely be breeding for them.

Ugh!

Herschel

10-13-2006, 12:08 PM

Aurora171989

10-13-2006, 12:17 PM

hey hey hey, lets not get into a dogfight here. Bsan is merely trying to defend a breeder she likes. We have our ideas, she has hers, and her experiences.

i just looked and, if you look at the training stuff on both sites, its true and valid. Let each be their own.

Herschel

10-13-2006, 12:41 PM

Aurora171989

10-13-2006, 12:48 PM

hmmmmm now that i think about it, it is odd..... She may have been able to go to a shelter to get the same kind of dog. It looks almost the same as the webpage, it could be the breeder himself or herself posting, i don't know. I'm against this kind of stuff, but i find training tips and socialization tips very useful.

~Jessie~

10-13-2006, 01:47 PM

I could never justify spending $1500 on a mixed breed... that is just sickening.

Chrissy&B

10-13-2006, 02:50 PM

OMG, I'm so sorry guys but this must be the stupidest site I've ever come across!!! :lol-sign:
Cypress is AKC registered with champion bloodlines on both the sire and dames side.
What the hell difference does it make that she has champion bloodlines if she produces mix pups!!! :lol-sign:

We specialize in Silver frosted English Goldendoodles, which have a very frosted look to them. The English type of Goldendoodle are very rare. They are produced by breeding our ultra cream English Golden Retriever to our Standard Poodle.

Oh man I haven't been laughing as much in a long, long time!!! :p Thank you Aspencypress, you sure are great intertainment!!!:hail:

planet molosser

10-13-2006, 04:20 PM

I guess if anyone of view are reading my post about the same thing unethcial breeders know this makes me SICK and any site that takes this mutt as a breed is just as bad..

I was asked to list a ASD X Mastiff cross on planet I said NO ,
she got angrey, i replied when you show me 3 generations of the new breed without crossing and bred true with the health tests to back up the claim this breed is healthier then I will take you.

Never heard back of course....

BSan

10-13-2006, 10:37 PM

It could possibly be that I am brand new to this site, and the two posts are the very first two posts I have ever made....... which shows how easily people can make judgements based on unfounded information, and suspicion. I found this site when typing in the kennel name, read the "slam", decided to give some honest information, based on my own experience. I do not represent, nor work for "Aspen". Also.......teaching breeding ethics is different than slamming breeders you don't know. I am just a very happy dog owner, who is very happy with our puppy from "Aspen". Breeders who do have good breeding ethics need to be supported, and I am giving info and supporting them. I really do not like when someone is judged unfairly, and believe it important to say the truth. That said, I probably won't be posting anymore about this unless someone has a sincere question. Thanks to those who actually tried to look at the info and assess it for themselves, and I am happy that there are people who want to educate, and not take unfair slams at other people, without having all the facts.

Chrissy&B

10-14-2006, 08:48 AM

I am just a very happy dog owner, who is very happy with our puppy from "Aspen".
Good for you and I'm glad you're not having any problems with your dog :) . I wish all people were lucky enough to have healthy dogs with great temperaments, but unfortunately that's not the case...... specially with back yard breeders. We are just generally big time dog lovers and care very much about the wellbeeing of our beloved breeds. We are showing our dogs, making sure we breed only healthy and tipical representatives of the breed as we honour the ones that dedicated so much time and energy into creating the breeds that we love and enjoy today!

Breeders who do have good breeding ethics need to be supported, and I am giving info and supporting them.
This particular breeder wouldn't recognize breeding ethics if it hit it on their head!!

Do you seriously that it's fair to make fun of honest and hard working people by selling them a mix at that price?? making up a new breed (that doesn't exist) and charging unreasonable money for it??? Is it fair to all the poor animals that are being PTS in shelters every day???? Do you think they don't deserve to be loved and cared for? Don't you think that people like this just make things worse??? I am SICK to my stomac....... I'm sorry but I am! :mad:

savethebulliedbreeds

10-14-2006, 11:33 AM

Also.......teaching breeding ethics is different than slamming breeders you don't know.

Breeders who do have good breeding ethics need to be supported, and I am giving info and supporting them.

The problem is these people are a prime example of who NOT to buy from. They are breeding mixed breeds to do nothing more than make them money. To be quite honest....they make me sick.

Just because you help train shelter dogs doesn't make you a good breeder. It makes you a poor unethical breeder that trains shelter dogs. NOTHING MORE!

Boemy

10-14-2006, 01:04 PM

Silver Frosted English Goldendoodles

Well, I don't think they sound like a cookie.

More like a breakfast cereal. :p

planet molosser

10-14-2006, 02:01 PM

Sad we has that years ago with my breed they took Caucausian X Central Asian X Spanish Mastiff X Anatolian Shepherd and created they American Asian Shepherd.
I educated the public and in my own way made a difference they were sold a purebreds.... Later sadly when the mixed was dying from cancer she had a seizure and her husband tried to help her the dog attacked him ripping off his arm and had to be shot to save them both.

#1 danger of mixed big dogs is tempermanet dont know what is going to come out in the cocktail. :(

Gempress

10-14-2006, 02:47 PM

Breeders who do have good breeding ethics need to be supported, and I am giving info and supporting them. I really do not like when someone is judged unfairly, and believe it important to say the truth.

Sorry you got so slammed on your posts, Bsan.

My problem with the breeder is this:the kennel is NOT trying to make a new breed. If they were, they would be breeding doodles with other doodles. It's impossible to have a purebred from two parents of different breeds. The kennel is making mixes, BLANTANTLY CALLING THEM A "RARE BREED" and offering them at super-premium prices.

While the kennel does socialize, offer health checks, etc., which is much better than many designer dog breeders do, they are still duping people into buying one a "rare breed". False advertising, plain and simple. Not ethicial in the least, in my book.

EDIT: I just noticed this. The kennel's "2-year hip guarantee" doesn't impress me. Most hip problems don't crop up until well after two years of age. A good breeder has the parent dogs certified by the OFA or CERF to be free of hip problems---I noticed their dogs don't mention any such certifications. Good breeders I've seen offer a much better guarantee as well.

planet molosser

10-14-2006, 02:57 PM

What I dont understand is why write one dog is a AKC reg poodle and leave it out of all the other purebred used in the cocktails?

This tells me the other dogs may not have a pedigree at all or may be shelter pups thus how does one track inheritance of health related issues?

So there goes Mutts are healthier than purebreds statement.

BSan

10-14-2006, 03:58 PM

Thanks Gem. You have made some interesting points. You also along with a few others seem genuine, and I appreciate your input, and theirs. The humor is fine as well. As far as some of the others, if this is the welcome to chazhound, no thanks.......in case your not sure which category you fall into, take an inventory, check the slamming. It feels like meeting new people and being devoured. Welcome to chazhound!!!

planet molosser

10-14-2006, 04:47 PM

BSan you dont know me and i dont know you. But I will tell you if you offered 10000 to my brother for his Schnoodle he would say HELL NO.

THe love you have for your dog is apparent and true and I wish the best.

The truth is your breeder could test both breeds in the mix for disease and buy only the best dogs for the mix and give good puppy care with lifetime help for you that makes her a good person and you a good buyer.

However it helps others excuse mixing dogs that may not have 1/4 her caring into dogs it in affect creates a domino affect of bad breeding.

Sometimes you have to look beyond your dog and your breeder to see the whole picture. And thousands or mixes are being put to sleep each day and im sure one of them would of fit into your family that is what the shelter rescue people here are saying rescue dont by mixes since mixes have shorter life spans than purebreds in the waiting list of shelters...

I remember when i believed no dog should ever be put to sleep if it can go to a home and issues worked out.

Then cases in which shelters dogs that went out intact were bred and bred creating more issues and in some bad cases some attacked and KILLED people creating BSL issues for good people like you and me.

So now when I get a call from a shelter for my breed and the dog failed the test the shelter uses so badly that they only want me to take it . I changed my mind the humane thing to do is to pts the dog. ONe it wont turn on someone creating BSl and it wont create more litters of bad dogs.

So after 25 years of rescue im saying that the humane thing to do sometimes is to Put the dog down.....

So please stay and understand everyone will love to chat with you about your mix but no one is going to aggree that your breeder is AAA as long as she breeds mixes even if she make the cover of Dog and Kennel as the clean-ist kennel in the USA.

Why? because if we make excuses for her based on your love and your one great dog that is doing great - We have to make excuses for all and that would not be good for the dogs not from your breeder or not living in your care.

So please chat in another thread and show some pics of your dog.
I would love to see them and I will try to scan pics in of Schoodles for you.

Jeannine

BSan

10-14-2006, 05:31 PM

Thanks Jeannine. Perhaps at some time in the future I may be more open to a shelter dog. Having had three kids who are now grown, and now a little grandaughter, I did not want a dog with some of the issues that some dogs/puppies have from neglect, abuse, abandonment etc. My daughter fostered dog/puppies during her college years until they were adopted. Some were ok, some were not. Another thing that went into play, was that our family lost all three of our dear pets in a matter of four months........two 9 year old sister cats to kidney disease, and a yellow lab, almost 15 years old. Our one cat went quickly, the other cat needed lots of help and tender loving care until she had to be put down. Our dear old lab, also needed lots of patience and tender care toward the end. It was a really hard time to lose all three pets, all needing to be put to sleep, and becoming very sick, all needing lots of our time, love and attention in the end. We decided on only one pet at a time from here on in, we both wanted a dog, we didn't want to get a dog without any health history after going through what we did, and I missed the fluffy fur of my cats.......thus wanted a furry dog this time. My husband also wanted a different color, a total change. We had three purebred yellow labs over the years, and the last one was the best!! (as they all are) We also decided for less shedding. So after lots of checking, talking to people, we made a choice, obviously not the choice most people on this site think was wise, but choose we did. And....we just love our big pup. He is everything we wanted and more. So we are really happy, and he is worth it to us. And yes, I am thankful so far he is healthy, and has a wonderful temperament, and easy to train. We are very blessed and fortunate. My husband is happy to not have all the shedding hair this time, has a big dog (he doesn't like pedigree standard poodles....... but I do...so we compromised) that is full of personality, and I love his fluffy coat which I mentioned before that I missed from not having cats anymore, and we just love him to pieces. So, that's my/our story We wouldn't trade him for anything. I pray he stays healthy, and lives a good old life, and after we have no little grandchildren, and don't have to worry so much about little ones being around, I may just go smaller as we get older, and try adoption from a shelter, but not now. When I can figure out how to make the picture file smaller and upload photos, maybe you'll get to meet Herbie. Thanks for reaching out. Dog lovers are one of a kind passionate people. It was a bit overwhelming to have everyone just blasting away when I first posted. Thanks

savethebulliedbreeds

10-14-2006, 06:10 PM

BSan, most people here aren't trying to be rude to you. Most of us are just concerned when someone thinks that people that breed mixed breeds and sell them for a ridiculous dollar are good and ethical breeders. Just because they take in stray animals or help train some shelter dogs does not make them a good breeder. Anyone who breeds for profit, breeds to produce "cute" dogs, or breeds mixes for no other purpose than money is not a good breeder. In your eyes the breeder may be good, but we have been throught this time and time again. Some of us breed and know what goes into breeding, to make you a good breeder. We know the time, the money, the heartache, and the ethics of breeding. This breeder to most of us does not fall under the catagory of being reputable.

I think it is good that the breeder does things for the shelter, but maybe he/she should stick to that and only that IMHO.

BSan

10-14-2006, 08:17 PM

savethebulliebreeds,
So....what do you consider a good breeder, and what about the ethics of breeding??

Renee750il

10-14-2006, 08:36 PM

If you'll check the stickied threads at the top of this forum you'll get an excellent idea of the standards of responsible breeding.

Herschel

10-14-2006, 08:57 PM

BSan,

I'm probably the one that slammed you hardest and I apologize for that. However, I make no apologies for trying to call you out for promoting Aspen Kennels and defending them as an ethical breeder. They are anything but ethical.

We bought our Schnauzer mix (mutt, terrier mix, schnauzer cross, half schnauzer half poodle, poodle mix) from a backyard breeder that operated much the same as Cypress Kennels. They weren't as much in to making it sound as if they were creating a "super breed", but they claimed all of the same old stuff about "hybrid" dogs being healthier, not-shedding, etc. etc. etc.

Our "Schnoodle" (we NEVER call him that--it isn't a breed) doesn't shed, he is amazing in every way, and we love him so much. He is perfect for us. That doesn't mean that the breeder was good, that we respect them, or that we would ever consider buying from them again. Now, I am more educated about ethical breeding--I recognize my mistake and will not repeat it!

Rescue sites that have Golden Retreiver/Poodle mixes:
http://www.poomixrescue.com/home.htm#goldenpoos
http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/dogs/4a38dd70-8102.aspx (1/10 of your price, 4 months)
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7159840 (9 months)
-And there are so many more...

Pookah

10-14-2006, 09:00 PM

wow..I guess I am a babe in the woods to what some people will breed and sell...it never crossed my mind to try and sell my mixed pups..for one thing the mom I rescued when she was 5 weeks old from the side of the road and the dad well like Ive said he was a stray...how can you honestly take mixed breeds and guarantee anything about them...I've always heard *mutts* are good loyal animals but there is plenty of them out in the world..why make it your business to breed more and then try to sell them for profit...it baffles me...no disrespect to you bsan..I love my *mutts* but I would never try to pass them off as well bred pedigrees..thats crazy..and the names of the dogs just make me giggle..thought I was in a bakery shop....had me trying to figure out a name for my many breed pups

BSan

10-14-2006, 09:53 PM

Herchel, apology accepted

BSan

10-14-2006, 09:58 PM

Renee, where do you mean......I am new to this site.......not sure where the stickied thread are that you mean

BSan

10-14-2006, 10:03 PM

Herschel, so where is a picture of your Schnauzer mix???? Would love to see him.

Renee750il

10-14-2006, 10:03 PM

If you look at the top of the Breeding Ground, you'll see several threads that are listed as "sticky," meaning they stay at the top so they can be easily accessed :)

Herschel

10-15-2006, 12:14 AM

BSan:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5855/herscheltemp006vf0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5969/herscheltemp005dk5.th.jpg (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=herscheltemp005dk5.jpg)

savethebulliedbreeds

10-15-2006, 01:09 AM

BSan. An ethical, reputable breeder, breeds to better a BREED. They spend much of their lives showing and titling their dogs to prove that they are worth breeding, they do health checks and have life time guarantees. They devote 99% of their time to their dogs, breed for temperment and standard of the BREED. They don't need to advertise, they have a waiting list of approved homes before they breed their dogs, they plan for years and years in advance for 1 single breeding. They know their breed inside and out, understand genetics, training, etc. The puppies are extremely well socialized (as well are the parents), there have prospective new owners sign contracts, they keep in contact with everyone they have sold a puppy to. They don't pass their dogs of as something they are not. THEY DON'T BREED TO MAKE $1500 OFF THEIR DOGS AND THEY DON'T CROSS BREED DOGS FOR THE HECK OF IT! As a matter of fact, good breeders will make very little or no money or even lose a lot of money breeding their dogs. If I have missed anything please feel free to ad.....it is late! Also Renee is right, take a look at the stickies. They will tell you exactly what a good breeder is

Alexa's~Mom

10-15-2006, 02:53 AM

They cookie ones are beautiful dogs tho, but there is no reason to "make" them. 1500$ for a doodleman.. wow. thats enough for like 500 shelter dogs

Yeah. Like, I don't mind when crosses pop up, it happens. Thats how I got my dog. My neighbors went to go spay their female and found out she was pregnant, lol.

But to charge, THAT MUCH for pretty much, a mutt, is insane. Sure, they're cute, and I can see like, 200 bucks, maybe, but 1500? Hell no. That's just wrong. It's fooling people into thinking they're rare breeds, when they're not. Poor people.

FoxyWench

10-15-2006, 10:17 AM

is it me or do the "Doodlemans" look alot like german wirehair's, why create a "new breed" that looks alot like half the other wirehaired pointer/pincher looking breeds?!

My parents spaniel is a MILL rescue, hes a rare and amazing "AmericanEnglish Cocker Spaniel" hes simply a mix of the american and english cocker
So for weve not had any health problems, hes behaviourally wonderfull extreemly inteligent and just a great all around dog (hes only 4) and we love him absolutly no questions, however even though he is healthy and smart does not mean his breeder is repuatable or ethical! infact they were quite the opposite!

an ethical repuatable breeder works to better a breed, and makes no money off doing such...

$1500 for a mutt is simply...ridiculous and echos those well thought out prices that any "ethcial" petstore, backyard breeder and puppy mill charge for ALL their dogs, pure or mixed...
Tell me why is it an ethical breeder can offer a gorgeous pedigreed poodle or golden with health cert parents from champion lines and generations of health test and genetic background for under $1000, yet everyone else can charge $1500 for a dog whome we have no idea about any kind of health testing???

and unless there offering a LIFETIME guarentte agains eyes, hips, knees and heart and other genetic issues that could occur from EITHER of the parents breeds, their guarentee for hips is worthless, most hip problmes dont occure untill 3-6 yrs old...so a 2 years guarentee is worthless...

planet molosser

10-15-2006, 11:01 AM

B san glad you stayed love the pics.. And all I ask you to do is absorb what you find here and if you change you mind one day about who you would buy from or adopt from better yet pls give us a update.

I understand the kids issue it makes adopting harder but not impossible in the breeds you mentioned you like.

I also understand the allergy issue dearly i cant imagine being a person who loves dogs but can have one...

1500 was way over the top thou IMO just opinion
I charge 1350( nonbreeding) for 3 generations of OFA or pH Champion TT Excellent working dogs.. And im in the red each yeare where this breeder and you can do the math is breeding for business does she love her dogs maybe..

People who breed for commercial profit reasons have to exceed the bar raise beyond what most breeders to to explain why they produce pups for profit.
They cant skim under it or not try at all.

Again no attacks wishes you best .
I do hope she insisted you fix the dog.

BSan

10-15-2006, 11:49 PM

Cute picture of your dog Herschel!
Thanks Renee for your guide to the sticky!
Planet Molosser, thanks for your gentle words and info!
(FYI- yes we will be neutering Herbie sometime between 18mths. and 2 yrs. our choice for that time frame)

paid 1200$$ for Herbie.........we knew he was not a "new" rare breed. As far as rare, the only rare part for us was finding ones with a potential to be very silver, and more wavy then curly. Most of them are gold, some black and chocolate. The other factor was the slightly stockier build from the English golden retreiver (we had a half english lab/half american lab, and loved the exta strong looking build without the short legs). We really like retreivers. I considered standard poodles, (met two and loved them...one was a service dog) my husband did not prefer them, and we were both ready for less shedding. I also liked the silver poodle father. They have very nice looking dogs, at least to us. We also wanted to know specifics as far as personality, for the particular one we were looking at. They offered a health guarantee ( I know from what all of you have said is less then adequate). We don't regret getting our puppy at all. It was the most we ever paid for a dog, we knew we would probably not do it again. I am sure that the breeders do not fit your standards, so really don't want to argue about it, nor will I spend time defending them, because obviously, I am sincerely not as knowlegeable as most of you. We hope and pray that he stays healthy, and lives a good life with us. There is really no guarantee with any dog from any backround, just how long we get to enjoy them. As far as what value we put on them (all of our pets), all of ours were far worth every $$ spent. They gave more back then we could give. When all three of our pets became sick, and eventually died last year, our vet bills were pretty substantial, and far exceeded what we paid for our new puppy, and on top of that, even with intervention, we still lost them. Everyone has to decide for themselves what they are willing to pay both for the dogs/pets, and their care. This dog is exactly what we wanted. We are not dissappointed, very pleased with his temperament, his personality, and to us he is adorable, and such an affectionate, sweet dog. Thanks for all your information, and for your welcome, even though initially it was a little rough.

BSan

10-15-2006, 11:58 PM

Thanks again Planet Molosser. Willing to be open to input, esp. from someone who speaks from the heart. I can hear it a bit better that way, then the full in the face approach. I hope that can be a learning point for others as well. Most of us have much in common, or we wouldn't be on this website. Dogs are the greatest!

savethebulliedbreeds

10-16-2006, 02:01 AM

BSan, I am sorry to hear about your other dogs. May I ask how they died?

Muggie'sMum

10-16-2006, 12:40 PM

I feel it's very poor taste to take a website or a photo and criticise it so violently when the person responsible for/depicted in the photo is not there to defend themselves or shed light on the situation. I would NEVER bring something out of the blue - that is good cause for slander, lible suits, etc.

With that said, I don't care for the looks of the doberman crosses. :P I do love a good dobie though.

BSan, WELCOME to Chazhound. Please do not be deterred by the "passionate" responses of some members. Many of them work in rescues and have different personal experiences than some other people -- truly the only way to know the entire situation is to ask, and to put yourself in the shoes of others which people don't always do. Sorry you got that blast to begin with, and glad you could shed some light on the practices of the kennel you chose to get your dog from. Good luck with "Herbie" and please do stick around!

Amanda

savethebulliedbreeds

10-16-2006, 01:05 PM

I don't think she shed any light on the kennel she bought her dog from to be quite honest. We have our beliefs and just because this breeder does do something good, (shelter training) that has nothing to do with the way they breed, doesn't mean she shed light on the breeding ethics of this breeder. I think it is a very good thing when people post stuff like this. It lets people new to Chaz know which ones are reputable and which ones aren't. IMHO. I am not trying to bash anyone here but this is the way I feel. Not only that but this person has, I think, realized that this kennel may have not been the best.

Chul3l3ies1126

10-16-2006, 01:58 PM

I sent these disgraceful people an email... man they **** me off.

I just want to state that it is a complete disgrace what you and other people like you are doing. Isn't there enough dog breeds in this world, and mixed breeds in this world for you? If you want to be good about it, maybe try sheltering homeless dogs, or pick a specific breed and work on improving it! Don't go and create more dogs and "breeds" that will continue the overpopulation of dogs out there. It is sad how you all just pick a couple of different breeds and mix them together. They are living things, DOGS, not different colors of paint that you can throw into a bucket and see what comes out!!! Good Ridance, you all should be shut down. You all don't understand the severity of the situation you all are causing. Any dog is beautiful, so I am not saying yours are'nt, but there is no need to be doing what you all are doing. You all are just in it for the money and that is it. People should beware of you, and maybe some will learn soon if more of us go and educate others of your carelessness and others like you!!!

Aurora171989

10-16-2006, 06:27 PM

ok this has gotten out of control, can a mod please lock this or something?

Delisay

10-16-2006, 06:40 PM

Aurora, I agree...

Chul I think that how you did what you did was unwise and unnecessarily unkind. (I expect that you will agree as you get older, but may not believe me right now!)

Muggie's Mum, thank you for your balanced and responsible post! A 'mum' is exactly what's needed around here at the moment!

Bsan, welcome!!! Sorry you've had such a pummeling from just walking in the room and joining a conversation.

Herschel, your dog is gorgeous!! What a darl'.

...and...can we stop this now????

D.

savethebulliedbreeds

10-16-2006, 07:13 PM

How is what Chul did wrong. There have been many, many, MANY other members of this forum write bad breeders emails before. So why is it wrong that Chul did it now? Just a question.

~Jessie~

10-16-2006, 08:10 PM

I've written many bad breeders emails before... there's nothing wrong with that.

FoxyWench

10-16-2006, 08:16 PM

its not the email itself thats the problem, its basically the way it was put.
you get nowhere by just bashing people, being like that they just dump the email and forget all about it, if yelling and screaming worked there woudl be no problems in the world right now.
Sometimes you HAVE to be a diplomat, be patient and choose words correctly to get the best response...

Its no good just screaming your head off...explain and teach don't dictate!

(as hard as that can be in situations in whihc one feels strongly about...im a sag, opinionated and often stubborn and hard headed, but 99% of the time, it just doesnt work!)

~Jessie~

10-16-2006, 08:19 PM

I didn't read the email she wrote... but now I did and I can understand that. I've written emails to breeds explaining why I feel that their practices are unethical... but I've put them in a nicer way, and I've tried to teach them that they shouldn't use those breeding practices.

BSan

10-17-2006, 12:35 PM

thanks Muggie's Mum and Delisay, as well as Aurora
Bullied Breeds, thanks for asking. I had two cats, sisters from the same litter, 9 years old which I considered young compared to another cat I had before. We really loved our cats. They developed kidney problems, one became very sick very fast in August 2006. She was on IV, etc. at the vet where she could be monitored.....she became too sick to recover, and sadly had to be put to sleep. December 2006 her sister became ill, same thing..... kidney issues. They both had been on special food for their problems months before when problems were beginning to show up. The vet wondered if the vulnerability was inherited, showing up in both sister cats She went to the vet, was there on IV's until "somewhat" stabilized, and I brought her home giving her much care, but she didn't make it, and she as well had to be put to sleep. A few days after having to put my second cat to sleep, My dear old lab (almost 15 yrs old) finally could not get up to go to the bathroom anymore, and stopped eating. He lived a good old life, and we loved him dearly. If you read the book Marley & Me, his decline was similar in the end, having to hoist him up sometimes when he couldn't get up too well, followed by an amazing good period of time, and then rough times again. So.........from the end of august 2006 to mid december 2006, we had three dear pets put to sleep. After that my husband didn't know if he wanted to go through that again at all. My choice was just one pet. We did not want to adopt from a shelter, not knowing the health backrounds , not wanting to go through again heartbreaking problems very soon again (though there are no guarantees), and having a little tiny grandaughter. We have no regrets getting "Herbie". He is perfect for us, comical, sweet, and brings much joy to our family. He is absolutely wonderful with our grandaughter, who was only 9 mths old when we got him. They are growing up together. He is so affectionate, and easy to train. We love him to pieces. He is 63lbs so far, and likes to try to sit on our lap. Never had a fluffy dog, (had three yellow labs over the years.....loved them!) never had a dog that hardly sheds at all. We love him!

Amalthea

10-17-2006, 01:01 PM

It's a hard situation for me to comment on because I've got 2 dogs now that came from breeders whom you guys would have a field day with... We reported the breeder that Midas came from because of his being covered in parasites (i.e. hundreds upon hundreds of ticks, which are thankfully gone now and his skin is healing well) and having many open sores and infection the vet said was pretty serious. The other breeder we got Moro from is a friend of ours' father, and his pups were healthy and weren't neglected or bug-infested, but he breeds wolf hybrids and I know that alone is enough to bother a lot of you guys. Midas was our most expensive dog at $75 ;) Moro was $50.

While I understand that 'designer breeding' and cross breeding in order to get a fad breed is only contributing to the problems of too many unwanted dogs, and while I also find it really idiotic to charge/pay hundreds or even thousands for what is essentially a mutt... and I understand that the fad is all about making money and once the rage over these "doodle" crosses is past, the breeders will have made a killing and the dogs will suffer from being unwanted 'mutts'.... there are just so, so many problems in the world of breeding dogs, owning dogs, and buying and selling dogs. I really see a place like the website linked in the first post of this thread as kind of the lesser of two evils... by that I mean...if their claims on the front page are true (that they only breed one litter and raise the pups as part of their family, and do all the health testing etc.), then I'd much rather see that happening than people breeding neglected, abused 'purebreds' (like Midas) who spend all their time outside in a concrete pen being eaten alive by bugs and whatnot... or even worse... purebreds who come from puppy mills and spend their entire lives in cages barely big enough for them. I know these two examples are part of a much larger problem, and that the money which can be made off purebreds and designer cross-breeds is what drives the demand for these type of pups... the Aspen kennels breeder is contributing to this problem by charging huge prices for mutts who happen to be 'in fashion', but honestly if their pups are healthy and happy, it bothers me much less than to see a sick, abused dog being sold for a huge price simply because it's 'purebred' and the owner doesn't care for it beyond its status as a pure breed and the money it can make for him.

This is kind of off topic, but really, I'd never pay a large sum for a dog. There are too many GREAT dogs out there from free to under $100 who badly need homes. It just makes no sense to me to pay $1,000 + for a dog, especially if it comes from a BYB or puppymill type place.

savethebulliedbreeds

10-17-2006, 03:22 PM

BSan, I am very sorry that you had to go through such hard times with your pets. The only problem is, is when you breed crossbreeds, so many different things can pop up, same as when people breed purebreds without doing the necessary testing. There are really no guarantees that a pet will never get sick or never have problems, but the best way to cut down the chances of that happening is to buy a purebred dog from a reputable breeder. And if something does happen, that breeder will be there to back you. I am not saying that there is a 100% chance that because your dog came from (what we call) a bad breeder that he will get sick or have health problems later on, but the chances are greater than if you went and bought from a reputable breeder.

My household, for example. I own purebred, registered dogs, (4 Pomeranians & 2 Chihuahuas), I also own an American Staffordshire Terrier.
I honestly don't have a clue where he came from. All I know is that I got him from trainer and that trainer got him from the humane society. Where he had been bred and what he lived like before that, I have no idea. I understand, that the chances of him having health problems in years to come is greater than my other dogs because my little ones came from good breeders and Magnus could have come from one of the worst.

I am glad you love your dog, but maybe this thread will give you something to think about for years in the future when it comes time to get another pet. Best of luck with your baby.

BSan

10-18-2006, 09:12 AM

Thanks BulliedBreed

Before we got our present dog, I already had thoughts about what I would want to do in the future. When you get older, you think about alot of things, like how old will I be when this dog reaches the end of his life (of course hoping for a good long life for both. We are in our early 50's, and in ten years, our 60's. Some large dogs are a handful. If my husband is willing to get another in the future, I had already thought about adopting a smaller dog from a shelter in the future.
By the way, I really like American Staffordshire Terriers. You have your hands full with four Poms (who need regular grooming), and two chihuahuas. I can't imagine 7 dogs in my house!

BSan

10-18-2006, 09:24 AM

Amalthea, what an awful experience with Midas. I am glad you were able to help the poor doggy. Quite an eye opening learning experience I am sure. I don't know much about wolf hybrids. I couldn't venture there.
I found a place 45 min. from my home where there is a large wolf sanctuary, with lots of room for them to roam . They have a few wolf hybrids there as well, that were rescued. That was a fascinating place to visit.

Chul3l3ies1126

10-18-2006, 12:21 PM

Aurora, I agree...

Chul I think that how you did what you did was unwise and unnecessarily unkind. (I expect that you will agree as you get older, but may not believe me right now!)

D.

LOL As i get older ?!! I'm 21, I'm old enough to know when someone is doing something stupid, and unproductive. My response might have been the same, but I speak my mind and i know many ppl that agree with me. The over population of pets does not need to progress.

Chul3l3ies1126

10-18-2006, 12:24 PM

And thank you Jessie and savethebulliedbreeds
and btw my cousin has 3 pit bulls, they are the angels of our family, they saved my baby cousin from their house fire 2 years back.

Muggie'sMum

10-18-2006, 12:34 PM

Anyone ever hear of being sued for slander? This is getting ridiculous.

Chul3l3ies1126

10-18-2006, 12:39 PM

Sigh...

Chul3l3ies1126

10-18-2006, 12:43 PM

What is sad is that everyone posts their own threads about things they like and dislike and ask for peoples opinions. Everyone's response is not going to be pretty. I have emailed 27 different so called "Breeders" of these new dog breeds, I have them all saved, and I participate in protests against this and against petstore and puppy mill cruelty. I have never been sued or threatened, I know the rules we go over them every time with our groups, what I stated was an opinion. They have not replied, I have sent one more asking for a response and their productive goal for breeding these dogs.

Delisay

10-18-2006, 05:45 PM

As i get older ?!! I'm 21, I'm old enough to know...
:lol-sign: This made me giggle!!! I mean it in the nicest way, believe it or not. Drop in again when you are 35+ and see what you think!! Trust me...!!! Or not (I expect....)

But certainly I suggest that you contemplate the reasons that these 27 people have not replied to you - why the approach you are taking is clearly not working, because something else might. Think about it, because people have given you good feedback here.

For example, see how you responded to me in a private message, triggered only by a gentle critique that your strategy was "unwise and unnecessarily unkind". That's among the mildest expressions of feeling on the issue that you could hope for. Others also explained it to you quite gently. But you reacted very badly even to this mild approach, because it feels bad to be criticised even a little (I understand that). You have probably mentally pushed me away a little now - I am not your favourite person at the moment (I understand that too). Therefore, imagine how other people will feel and how they will respond, to the far more lengthy, direct, emotive and insulting criticisms in your emails. Most people will just dismiss you, feel a little sadder about human nature for a while because a stranger has attacked them, then continue on their merry way.

As Dr Phil says when someone gets bad results but keeps doing the same thing... "How's that workin' for ya'?!" Life comes down to 'what works'. With your strength of feeling on this issue you have the potential to make a difference. Think about strategies and pitches which will be more effective and not just get people on the defense from the get go.

Del.

~Jessie~

10-18-2006, 05:55 PM

I do agree that you get more flies with honey...

I've sent emails to breeders before, but they were worded in a nice way. I've gotten some good responses back too... and I feel like I educated some. And for the ones that didn't care, at least I tried. People are more likely listen if you if you are nicely and calmly trying to educate/explain why you do not care for their breeding practices.
A while back I was looking at ads for puppies, and I came across a stud ad for an older, out of breed standard chihuahua. I sent the poster an email, and they wrote back that they had no idea that he wasn't breed standard. They said that they just received him as a gift and that he was their first purebreed. They didn't even realize that purebred dogs have faults. Anyway, the point is, they just didn't know any better. Guess what? The ad was removed a couple of days later. I'm sure that if I sent them a mean email that stud listing would still be on hoobly.

Herschel

10-18-2006, 05:56 PM

:lol-sign: This made me giggle!!! I mean it in the nicest way, believe it or not. Drop in again when you are 35+ and see what you think!! Trust me...!!! Or not (I expect....)

But certainly I suggest that you contemplate the reasons that these 27 people have not replied to you - why the approach you are taking is clearly not working, because something else might. Think about it, because people have given you good feedback here.

For example, see how you responded to me in a private message, triggered only by a gentle critique that your strategy was "unwise and unnecessarily unkind". That's among the mildest expressions of feeling on the issue that you could hope for. Others also explained it to you quite gently. But you reacted very badly even to this mild approach, because it feels bad to be criticised even a little (I understand that). You have probably mentally pushed me away a little now - I am not your favourite person at the moment (I understand that too). Therefore, imagine how other people will feel and how they will respond, to the far more lengthy, direct, emotive and insulting criticisms in your emails. Most people will just dismiss you, feel a little sadder about human nature for a while because a stranger has attacked them, then continue on their merry way.

As Dr Phil says when someone gets bad results but keeps doing the same thing... "How's that workin' for ya'?!" Life comes down to 'what works'. With your strength of feeling on this issue you have the potential to make a difference. Think about strategies and pitches which will be more effective and not just get people on the defense from the get go.

Del.

Such a good post until you quoted Dr. Phil... ;)

Delisay

10-18-2006, 05:58 PM

:lol-sign: Sorry Herschel!!! :hail: :D

~Jessie~

10-18-2006, 06:00 PM

:lol-sign: :popcorn: :lol-sign:

savethebulliedbreeds

10-18-2006, 06:22 PM

I can completely understand where Chul is coming from. When you are very passionate about a certain thing you can't help but get very mad and extremely frusterated. There are nicer ways to say things but her email was definately not one of the worst I have seen people on here post. I have sent many many "appropriate" emails and still had my a$$ chewed out. Sometimes people don't listen to nice and sometimes the people that send the emails don't want to put it to them so nicely. Sometimes things have to be said the way they are. I for one, have difficulty sugar coating the truth, it does not work for me and never has. Just my opinion though.

BSan

10-18-2006, 11:07 PM

I too understand passion leading to anger and frustration..........I Have three kids, now grown into their twenties! LOL Can't tell you how many times, over the years I felt passionate/angry/frustrated. They are great kids! But growin' um' up wasn't always fun. They hardly ever responded to the passionately angry, verbally hostile approach. Who does!!!!! Firmness, love, with established boundaries (meaning what is right is right), with thought to teach, not condemn, always won out. (I did not get that from Dr. Phil!........he wasn't around then when I needed him!) They may not have agreed, but I did the right thing to teach, whether they agreed or not. Real truth does not have to be sugar coated, but it does Not need to be condemning. Condemnation never gets anybody anywhere, unless of course the reason to spew on them is to tick (p*##) them off, which is not the best of reasons. I admire people who stand up for what they believe, are passionate without hostility, regardless of whether others agree or not. Maybe when someone is really mad, it would be good to wait and "simmer down", take a break, put some good thought into it, and respond instead of react. With many failings myself over the years, I humbly add this suggestion.

~Jessie~

10-18-2006, 11:40 PM

I would never sugar coat anything... but there is a way to word things without coming off too strong/condemning/angry/rude.
It is hard to not let your anger/frustration to show through on things you feel passionately about... I cannot stand unresponsible breeding/puppy mills/ low quality dog food (all three of these are my weaknesses, lol). But, more people listen if you are calm and uncondemning.

Chul3l3ies1126

10-19-2006, 01:14 AM

Yea, sorry but thats the thing with me, I'll never sugar coat anything. I speak exactly the way I think sorry. But like I had stated before, people on here and on any forum state their cases and different problems and ask for feedback, not every reply or opinion is going to be pretty. That's the real world for you... I'm at least old enough to know that. You all saying I need to be older to understand... hehe... should know this as well. The real world is a sad sad place.

Muggie'sMum

10-19-2006, 09:03 AM

I posted this on another thread but thought it might be beneficial here:

I agree that Chazhound seems like a great group of folks that really care about the canines who can't speak for themselves. "Passionate" is a word that definitely comes to mind....

With that said, for the most part, Chazzers are great about the way they put forth the things they are passionate about. You can make a great deal of difference in the way that you approach things though. I understand where dogs are something very near and dear to the heart of everyone on Chazhound, it can sometimes be difficult to be eloquent, but respect goes a long way, especially when you are chastising something someone is doing.

Ie -

"You're so stupid for breeding your dog. There is no excuse for it to get pregnant! You ignorant slob, you're bringing mutts into the world! You are the spawn of satan!"

vs.

"I really feel that you should educate yourself a little bit on the statistics surrounding dogs in shelters, etc" -- you get the point?

I have met a couple of Chazzers that are less than respectful in the way they respond to things but for the most part, they're a top notch group of folks. I have belonged to many a forum where people are not so eloquent with their wording, but have found that for the most part, there are plenty of people who are adults (or can act like one!) here that can express themselves without grossly offending.

You catch more flies with sugar than honey, as they say. ;)

Apologize to those who read it already.

When I was 18, I thought I was about as mature as I was going to get - when I was 21, I thought differently and looked back on the decisions I made as infantile and immature -- and so it goes.

You're not doing anything by sending emails like that except infuriating people and making them THAT MUCH MORE insistent on doing exactly what you don't want them to do - you may, in fact, be harming your cause, instead of doing any good for it. Does this mean you need to sugarcoat?? No, it just means you need to be respectful.

Chul3l3ies1126

10-19-2006, 10:05 AM

It's ok Maggie'sMum, you just don't feel as strongly about it as I do. I have had too many experiences with this stuff. I have a local group that goes and protests against "breeding" like that, puppy mills and petsores. I have even gone to the former PetLand I worked at and then quit at because of the conditions, but that is a whole other story. Some people feel strongly about some things over others, to me a dog is like my child, so i protect, if your child was in danger or something was going the wrong way for them, I know many mothers who would forget the respect part to protect. I do understand what you're saying though, but do not agree with you, sorry. This whole thing has turned out to be so dumb, someone says an opinion and gets bashed for it, and then there is a whole dang cry over it. Ehh oh well many of you are different. From now on I hope everyone knows that not all of my opinions against backyard breeders like that who advertise in a website are not going to be pretty. On the other hand though I would never butt in and bash any of you on the forum for something you say. I have'nt so far and won't in the long run.

summitview

10-19-2006, 11:35 AM

Does this mean you need to sugarcoat?? No, it just means you need to be respectful.

Sorry, but a true BYB/PM that does not wish to be educated will get NOT ONE OUNCE of respect from me. And if someone continues to stick around after I've politely and professionally tried to educate them for the better, then I will gladly let them know just how big of a piece of **** they are, online or off.

Muggie'sMum

10-19-2006, 01:00 PM

But Summit, it's possible to display a little tact, taste and respect if you don't know if these people don't wish to be educated - which in this case, maybe they don't? You can't walk into every situation like this both guns blazing, it's just hurting your cause.

I guess I am just nonviolent, and non confrontational, and believe in the old fashioned concept of respect, especially for people who are older than me. Does respect mean I have to agree with them? No.

*sigh*

I'm not even going to continue to try to talk sense anymore.

You're all right! Let's string people up by their ankles with barbed wire, ESPECIALLY if they don't know any better!!!!

savethebulliedbreeds

10-19-2006, 03:10 PM

Sorry, but a true BYB/PM that does not wish to be educated will get NOT ONE OUNCE of respect from me. And if someone continues to stick around after I've politely and professionally tried to educate them for the better, then I will gladly let them know just how big of a piece of **** they are, online or off.

I completely agree with you summitview.

I have tried being "nice" and "tactful" many times before. It has never ever worked for me.

savethebulliedbreeds

10-19-2006, 03:13 PM

You're all right! Let's string people up by their ankles with barbed wire, ESPECIALLY if they don't know any better!!!!

The problem is is most BYBers and puppymills KNOW what they are doing wrong and just dont care.

I don't have a problem giving advice to someone that comes on here that doesn't know any better and had an accident, but when you are full out breeding like these breeders, you KNOW what is right and what is wrong. Their only reason for breeding these dogs is because they are cute and they sell for big bucks. I don't agree with that and I would not be nice if I wrote them an email either.

FoxyWench

10-19-2006, 04:14 PM

well think of it more this way, somoene sends you an email you have no idea who this person is you oepn the email and read it...

Blah blah blah I HATE YOU...Blah blah blah, YOUR WRONG...blah blah blah YOUR A BAD PERSON...blah blah blah...YOU SHOULD DIE...

I know what i do...skim and deleete.

them someone else with the exact same veiwpoint sends you an eloquently written letter saying the exact same thing but in better chosen words and explaining why...Yes id deleet that one too but id be intruigued enough to actually READ it first.
And even if they dont want to learn, words wrote one way are more likely to stick with them and mabe even raise thoughts that wernt there before rather than just one more "i Hate You" email in their trash can...

if they dont want to learn your right they wont...but sometimes a little tact goes a long way...

BSan

10-20-2006, 01:27 AM

Good point Jesse! Thanks for trying Muggie, and Foxy. As far as the other recent posts, all I can do is *sigh*. I guess for now your minds are made up, whether what you do is respectful, effective or not. So...... we'll have to agree to disagree. I stand my own ground, stating that my puppy, from Aspen, who was well taken care of, and noticeably by my vet, did not come from such a terrible environment that some have stated. He is an outstanding companion, and beautiful puppy. No regrets. For me, I think my part in this conversation is over, as there is nothing else to say.

Chul3l3ies1126

10-20-2006, 02:02 AM

Same here, nothing more I have to say. I have made my point and others have come to understand it from my point of view and theirs. I love that we all can have different opinions and different ways of dealing with things. Some people are "non-violent and non-confrontational" and others are like me, we will try in a nice way to educate, but when they don't listen that way we can get ugly. Thats just the way some ppl are. To you nice ones and to you "stand up for what you believe in a 'violent and confrontational' way ones"... I say way to go to everyone and all for their love of dogs and drive to keep the population down and blood lines clean and controled.

~Jessie~

10-20-2006, 09:37 AM

After I try to educate and that person is then rude, I will be rude and mean to them and tell them exactly how I feel! Many people do not listen, but some do (a very few some).

I don't think that anyone said that Aspen Kennels do not take care of their dogs... the problem lies in the dogs that they are breeding.

savethebulliedbreeds

10-20-2006, 02:58 PM

I don't think that anyone said that Aspen Kennels do not take care of their dogs... the problem lies in the dogs that they are breeding.

Exactly :D

Chul3l3ies1126

10-20-2006, 06:51 PM

Exactly :D

What she said...

JadeRyanKelly526

11-12-2006, 12:07 AM

That is really sick. A new breed? for 1500 bucks? No thank you. If I wanted to buy a mix I could find a perfectly happy dog to save at a shelter. What is wrong with these people? If you want to pay that much go get a show quality pure breed.

A doodleman pinscher? SChnoodle? No thanks.

Dizzy

11-12-2006, 05:29 PM

If I wanted a pure bred dog - I could go down to ANY shelter and pick one up.

There are as many being pumped out as mixed breeds.

The only gripe people have is because they have mixed parentage.

I would have paid over the odds for my Bodhi - I persoanlly would not want a pedigree dog. She is my perfect dog. I would get another mixed breed ANY day of the week.

IF I was to want a dog, and wanted to BUY a MIX BREED - that is my choice, and I would apply the same knowledge to acquiring one as any purebreed. People like to know where there puppy came from. You have NO guarentees with a shelter dog. Personally - that is fine by me - as I do not have small children to consider, or any other factors - SOME PEOPLE DO.

The fact is - noone here has the right here to say what breeds (mix or otherwise) do or do not exist. Noone here has the right to tell me, or anyone else what I should or should not own.

It is no different to BSL.

People should be targetting TRUE bad breeders indiscriminately.

You talk about ETHICS - well - that only hits home if you agree with those ethics in the 1st place.

Personally - I think 99% of pedigree dog breeding needs looking at, and monitoring.

Aurora171989

11-12-2006, 09:47 PM

why are we beating a dead horse that's already a pulp?

savethebulliedbreeds

11-12-2006, 10:51 PM

UGH! I do not, and never have agreed with the breeding of mixed breed dogs for ANY reason.

You do not have to buy a mixed breed dog from a BREEDER! There are many, many rescue groups out there with new born, mixed breed puppies that need homes.

Trust me, bad breeders are targeted the same here. Mixed or purebred. If someone is breeding mixed breed dogs they are doing it for nothing more than profit and purebred breeders that breed for that very reason are also bad breeders.

Dizzy

11-13-2006, 09:37 AM

You do not have to buy a mixed breed dog from a BREEDER! There are many, many rescue groups out there with new born, mixed breed puppies that need homes.

There are many many pedigrees in rescue too... Not to mention many breed SPECIFIC rescues....

So, theoretically - you shouldn't have to bother buying one of those from a breeder either.

In fact - while we're on the moral soap box - surely people are doing a dis-service to ALL dogs by buying from breeders FULL STOP while there are so many dogs in kennels - pedigree and mixed.

dr2little

11-13-2006, 11:30 AM

There are many many pedigrees in rescue too... Not to mention many breed SPECIFIC rescues....

So, theoretically - you shouldn't have to bother buying one of those from a breeder either.

In fact - while we're on the moral soap box - surely people are doing a dis-service to ALL dogs by buying from breeders FULL STOP while there are so many dogs in kennels - pedigree and mixed.

Exactly, all breeders should be held to a much higher standard than what now exists.
Three of my 5 dogs are registered purebred dogs from breeders who neglected them horribly. I took them home when the breeders were shut down. 2 of the three only bred one breed...it meant nothing. One breeder was up and running again within a year in a different location but still kept her dogs in a dark basement kenneled for over 20 hours/day in wire crates (my Amos came from her shop of horrors).

Tinkers breeder was well known in the show world but kept her 20+ Chihuahuas in a filthy trailer with less than bare minimum care.

Many breeders of pure bred dogs pump out puppies for a dollar and house their breeding dogs in disgusting conditions...check out how many offer puppies over the net. Pure bred means nothing anymore, you still have to do your homework and that means truly knowing (not over the net), how the dogs are REALLY cared for and bred.

Breeding to improve the breed is the execption these days. Very few breeders breed for those reasons and even fewer dogs are actually doing the work that they were bred for.

Amalthea

11-13-2006, 12:33 PM

Many breeders of pure bred dogs pump out puppies for a dollar and house their breeding dogs in disgusting conditions...check out how many offer puppies over the net. Pure bred means nothing anymore, you still have to do your homework and that means truly knowing (not over the net), how the dogs are REALLY cared for and bred.

Breeding to improve the breed is the execption these days. Very few breeders breed for those reasons and even fewer dogs are actually doing the work that they were bred for.

I totally agree with this, it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. As dog lovers we want to help and protect the dogs, but the problem runs so deeply that there is little we can realistically do, than stay aware, support rescues and shelters, and hope the love of dogs will motivate people to be educated about their care and well-being... and of course, love and care for our dogs to the best of our ability.

It is truly sad the conditions that some breeders keep their animals in, even small-time breeders who might only have a few animals. Pure bred really can mean anything from the healthiest, most pampered pups you could hope for to the sickest, most neglected... it's really sad. Dr2little I've seen a lot of what you described with the chihuahuas, I think the majority of dog breeders in KS run a fairly filthy operation, but there's so much land and farms and good ol' boys that it's just way more uncommon to see a breeder who does all the health testing, asks a lot of questions of the family the dog will be going to, etc. More often than not the dogs live outside, people come by and see them, say "aww how cute", the money changes hands and that's that. Not the best way to do things, but I can't say that I hate all breeders who run things this way. I got two wonderful dogs from two bad breeders. I wouldn't trade them for anything. I reported neglect on Midas' breeder because he was being neglected, outside all day alone in a concrete pen being eaten alive by ticks. He was an "AKC purebred lab" with papers, but it took hours of tweezing, bathing, and a couple good douses of vet bug-killing stuff to get all the creepy crawlies off him. Moro's breeder is a friend of mine's relative and she was healthy and vermin-free, but that doesn't mean he was a good breeder either. She was an "ad puppy", the local classified was for "$50 wolf hybrid pups for Valentine's day"...when we looked at the number, we realized that we knew the guy selling them, went out there and got her. He had another female pup that looked just like her... his son tells me that he never ended up selling that one, and she still lives out on his farm. He only has litters every once in a while, I don't think more than once a year. I know now that buying a dog this way is not a good way to go, but I'm not gonna say that I hate the guy for it or that I think he's pure evil for breeding wolf hybrids and selling them through the paper. It is not the best situation, but I have a lot more problems with puppy mills and huge breeding operations that dole out puppy after purebred puppy for enormous prices, with little attention to their care.

Still, that is the situation that so many puppies end up in. Why does it happen? Well, it's a combination of the exploitation of humanity's love for dogs, and greed, plain and simple. People see their gorgeous dream of a purebred dog, they think, "I have to have it!", they find someone with an advertisement for it, they buy it and they don't want to think about where it came from. As long as that type of demand is there for dogs, there will always be people willing to do whatever they can to fill the supply and make the money, regardless of the effects on innocent dogs. It's sad but the world works this way again and again. It's just like if I sat here and started thinking about my clothing, and how much of it was possibly made by underage workers in some third-world country because it can be made cheaply there and brought here to be sold for huge prices... I'd just get really depressed because there's little I can do, short of making all my own clothes.

What really upsets me is people who see their dog as kind of a fashion accessory, or an afterthought to their life. People who are like "oh yeah, I have a pit bull/poodle/rottweiler/dalmation/insert breed here", and it's kind of like their only use for the dog is the bragging rights to say "I have this"...and in reality the dog sits outside in the yard and never gets played with, or is chained up, or the owner loves the dog at first when it's small and cute, and then gets bored with it as it gets older and it's just kind of "there". It's amazing to me that some people would spend thousands on a purebred dog from a crappy breeder or a pet store, only to get tired of taking care of it in a few months.

That's why I think sites like this are great...it encourages people to think about their dogs and talk about them, share ideas for the best ways to take care of them, and it gives new owners a wealth of information to help them raise their dog to be happy and healthy. That's why the world needs more dog people like us... people who don't just see their dogs as something neat they bought. People who see their dogs as their true friends, companions, even their children ;) (I know hubby and me call ourselves 'mom' and 'dad' around the dogs, hehe) The world is a better place for dogs cause of you guys!!!

chinchow

11-13-2006, 12:55 PM

I'll stick to buying my purebreds from a reputable breeder who doesn't mix breeds to make a buck, or get their name out there by creating something that will probably never happen anyway. Thanks.

Purdue#1

11-13-2006, 04:42 PM

what's wrong with a dog living outside? just a question.

chinchow

11-13-2006, 05:15 PM

I don't see anything wrong with dogs living outside.

However, I don't like when puppies are born, and raised, completely outside, and expected to be alright. And I don't like when dogs are housed outside with no sense of family in them. JMO, but that's not really good for the dog, or the owners.

Fran27

11-13-2006, 05:31 PM

There are many many pedigrees in rescue too... Not to mention many breed SPECIFIC rescues....

So, theoretically - you shouldn't have to bother buying one of those from a breeder either.

In fact - while we're on the moral soap box - surely people are doing a dis-service to ALL dogs by buying from breeders FULL STOP while there are so many dogs in kennels - pedigree and mixed.

Although I mostly agree with you, I think it's totally different.

For mutts, whether you get it from a breeder or a shelter, it's the same - in both cases, you don't know what you're going to get, and in both cases, as 99% of breeders who breed mutts don't do health testing on parents, you're just as likely to have a dog with a genetical disease.

For purebred dogs though, it's not the same. Sure, compare your shelter dog with a BYB puppy, it will be the same as mutts - you don't know what you're going to get, whether health or comportement-wise. BUT if you get your purebred puppy from a reputable breeder, you will be 90% sure of what you're going to get - THAT is the difference between mutts and purebred dogs.

Overall though, I agree with you, which is why I despise breeding when it's not just to improve a breed (ie, breeding maybe once every two years that perfect bitch with that perfect male). The problem though, is that for people who are looking for something specific in a breed, pretty often your shelter purebred won't cut it, because he probably came from a puppy mill or a BYB, and such won't be a good specimen of the breed.

I guess the problem really is for people to stop focussing on one aspect of a breed, and maybe open up a bit to a dog that might not be a 100% match, but maybe just a 80% one. In all honesty though, no matter how I would rather get my next dogs from a shelter or rescue, if I have children it will limit my choices a whole lot - and I'm sure it's one of the problems with rescues and shelters, that if you didn't bring up the dog yourself, you'll never know what happened in their past, and it's a risk lots are not willing to take with children.