My dog had 11 puppies, help!!! [Archive]

Heatherew

07-13-2006, 01:16 PM

Hi, this is my first post here. My dog(half German Shepherd, half lab) had eleven puppies two weeks ago, and I am clueless.....I have them in a huge box(as big as a refrigerator), and I have a notch in the side so that the mom can get out but the puppies can't. I'm just not sure what to do as they get older. I put newspapers in the bottom of the box, but it seems like I have to change them every hour or so. My main question is, where do I keep them when they get older? I have a dog door that goes outside, so will they follow their mom outside to go the bathroom? Also, a couple of them cry a lot, could it be that they are having trouble going to the bathroom on their own and they need their mom to lick them? Sorry for all the questions, I am just lost as far as newborn puppies go.

RedyreRottweilers

07-13-2006, 01:25 PM

:eek:

http://www.buybelowcost.com/smclassifiedspro/graemlins/headbang.gif

http://www.buybelowcost.com/smclassifiedspro/graemlins/pissed.gif

http://www.buybelowcost.com/smclassifiedspro/graemlins/lipseal.gif

Fran27

07-13-2006, 01:27 PM

I strongly suggest doing a search in the breeding forum.

RedyreRottweilers

07-13-2006, 01:30 PM

http://puppydiary.com/_wsn/page5.html

http://puppydiary.com/_wsn/page5.html

http://hattrick-dals.home.att.net/TheWhelpingBox.html

GSDlover_4ever

07-13-2006, 01:49 PM

Aussie Red

07-13-2006, 02:02 PM

ok you do need help and I am not a breeder so I will offer you some advice.
First thing is mama will take care of cleaning pup first week or so as they need stimulated to relieve themselves.
second: I doubt very highly that they will follow mama to go outdoors to relieve themselves'they will go out to play.
Allowing such a young one out side is a disaster waiting to happen as it is not vaccinated.Do you plan on giving these puppies their shots ??
I am sorry to say this to you but you were not prepared to breed your dog and you do need a ton of info to see to it that these dogs are healthy and get good homes.
For what it will be worth please do not do the breed thing again as there are more then enough mixed breeds in the world now looking for homes and not finding them. Please have your dog spayed. It will be better for her and for you. About allowing puppies outside. Do you know about parvo ?? please don't let that happen. Talk to a vet in your area or the SPCA about how to care for them and what you need to do.

RedyreRottweilers

07-13-2006, 02:08 PM

www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/medical/whelping.html

http://www.vipoodle.org/PDF_Files/TheInfantPuppy.pdf

http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/pompier/First18Weeks.htm

Bailey+Ralph

07-13-2006, 02:14 PM

Sorry........I am at a lose for words here :eek:

Red has posted some great links that should help you.
Please have your dog spayed ASAP!

bubbatd

07-13-2006, 02:39 PM

Wish you had contacted us months ago. Go to all the sites and get the book" How to Raise A Puppy You Can Live With "..Rutherford and Neil from Amazon.com ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cowgurl6254

07-13-2006, 02:47 PM

Maybe there is a local rescue group that can help you. I know it's been said but I'll say it again....please spay her ASAP!:rolleyes:

stevinski

07-13-2006, 02:50 PM

i dont quite no where to start really,
what breed was the father?

mamasobuco

07-13-2006, 03:05 PM

I agree. Spay the mother. Most of the dogs in the shelters here are either sheppard, lab or rotty mixes. There is no need for more puppies that will not get good homes.
As far as taking care of the pups you have, use the links posted.
And take our advice....don't let her get pregnant again.

smkie

07-13-2006, 03:29 PM

YUp..you not only change those papers every hour, you monitor that no one pup is getting excluded, the biggest puppies will often push the weaker ones out of the way. I like to make sure the runt or smaller puppies get first dips on those fat loaded teats in the back. You make sure their nails are clipped for they are very sharp and will tear at Mama's teats. And check them every day to make sure you didn't miss anybody. Mom gets EXTRA nutrition and watch her that she is being nursed evenly and isn't getting sore. As the puppies get older you will change papers even more often (bring in those big ol grocery bag size and know that a cardboard box will not contain them for long. In fact 11 can take down baby gates if your not careful. Expect to keep them the full 8 weeks since you are responsible for their being in this world and start finding people that want a mix breed. finally make sure THEY GET THEIR PARVO SHOTS ON TIME AND BOOSTERS BEFORE THEY LEAVE AND THAT THE PEOPLE ADOPTING KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE HAD AND WHEN THEY WILL NEED THE NEXT SHOTS! IT will be expensive, but without that you are risking their dying an unneccessary and unbelievably painful death. You will have your hands full for the next month and a half. BElieve me this is the easy part. Finally as soon as they are weaned RUN mama all the way to the vet and have her spay so this never ever happens again. Having an oops litter is a responsiblity of the owner just like having an oops baby. Having two oops litters is worse. Good luck with your babies, handle them as much as you can gently, do not let small children (even ones that seem old enough in your mind are still capable of causing great harm) handle the puppies or God forbid be alone with them.
I pray all find good homes and Mama remains healthy and happy.

in case i missed anything http://www.chazhound.com/pictures/showphoto.php?photo=3635&cat=500&perpage=20&ppuser=2623 hope this helps..your mama should look like this if she has enough milk.

I forgot where to keep them..i took a small room of my house (we had 8 puppies) and removed all the furniture, electric cords, anything that they could be harmed by, first i put down plastic and taped that too the floor all the way to the sides and up a couple inches, secured with heavy duct tape. Then good thick pad of papers. make sure all foam rubber or anything else they could chew and swallow is removed. As they get older toy ropes with big knots tied on the end are nice, my old boss put rocks in a plastic jug for them to nose around to help them get use to sound (we raised hunting dogs) and not be jumpy too..A baby gate would not have fit across the entree way and there was no door so a large piece of masonite secured by three chairs on the other side blocked them in there. OUtside needs to be babyproofed as well. If you scoot them out as soon as they wake up, and right after they eat a lot of the dung will be deposited outside. Make sure not to take them to public parks and when you take them to the vet do not let them on the floor for they are so at risk for parvo infection. While nursing they have some of Mom's protection but you cannot possibly be too careful. IF you do let them toddle around outside secure your fence, look for choking hazards, and never ever leave them out unattending. I had a friend that had pom puppies. they were so small and she left only to grap the phone and came back out to find one forever missing. Probably a crow or other large bird. We lost one pup at the kennels to a raccoon too. We think the raccoon came up to raid the food and the pup toddled out and surprised the racoon that promptly tore the puppy up. WATer buckets for Mom must be tall enough that pups can't fall into them as well. I can;t think of anything else off the top of my head but you are free to pm me if you have any other questions.

RedyreRottweilers

07-13-2006, 03:41 PM

You should also either spay and neuter each puppy before it leaves, or by legal contract require this done so that your puppies don't pupulate the local shelters.

smkie

07-13-2006, 03:49 PM

I personally do not want my pup operated on at 8 weeks. sorry but imo that is too young. I doubt any of us that isn't well financed could afford the fixing of 11 puppies, lets get serious here. Help was asked for and that is what i am hoping to give. The new owner is usually the party that can take the responsiblity of that, unless you are adopting from a shelter where the fee is included in the adoption price. Just makes dang sure the dhlp and parvo boosters are done. If you know someone that is a vet tech or has farm experience those shots can be purchased at a feed store. THey are not hard to give and that will help with the cost. I forgot to add that MOm will need extra meat ontop of her regular diet and if any pup falls behind, nutrical (a gel supplement availabe at pet stores) is very good at adding the nutrition they need to catch up.

here is a pic of our outside play area. WE kept it very clean so there were no fly attraction, and they were able to get some air and sun and learn a bit about thier new world. http://www.chazhound.com/pictures/showphoto.php?photo=3634&cat=500&perpage=24&ppuser=2623

Heatherew

07-13-2006, 04:39 PM

Thanks to those of you who have given helpful answers(thanks especially to Smkie). I HAD set up a spay appointment for this dog, then she got pregnant. I did not plan it, and I cannot go back and change it. I did not post on here to get attacked or get sarcasm, I posted to get some help so I can do what is best for the puppies, most of whom already have homes to go to. Yes, the puppies will all get their shots. A person has to learn sometime, I have never had newborn puppies before so obviously I will not know everything! The father of the pups was a lab mix also. And to the person who mentioned not breeding mongrels, it's my understanding that a mixed breed will sometimes escape the health problems that plague a particular breed.

I have tried supplemental feedings, but I wasn't able to get the puppies to drink from the bottle.

Serena

07-13-2006, 05:00 PM

Each puppy should be spayed/neutered PRIOR to going into its new home.

Having the pups s/n BEFORE they go into their new homes is the only way to absolutely 100% ensure they will not be bred.

In regards to not being afford the s/n surgery for 11 puppies...thats too bad. It is the responsible thing to ensure it is done.

Thanks to those of you who have given helpful answers. I HAD set up a spay appointment for this dog, then she got pregnant.

So why were you not supervising your dog? If you were watching her then this would not have happened..."Oops Litters" are the sole FAULT of the owner.

I did not plan it, and I cannot go back and change it.

You may not have planned it but you certainly could have prevented it. Why was the pregnancy not terminated?

Yes, the puppies will all get their shots.

Don't forget to s/n each pup too.

A person has to learn sometime,

Next time you want to learn something read a book or rent a video.

I have never had newborn puppies before so obviously I will not know everything!

All the more reasons why you should have never allowed your dog to have pups.

The father of the pups was a lab mix also. And to the person who mentioned not breeding mongrels, it's my understanding that a mixed breed will sometimes escape the health problems that plague a particular breed.

Your understanding is wrong.

The only people that say mutts are healthier are byb's and puppymillers seeking to capitalize on the myths and hype surrounding "hybrid vigor" ( which as we all know is BS) from unsuspecting pet owners that sadly have no clue about canine genetics.

Heatherew

07-13-2006, 05:08 PM

Serena

07-13-2006, 05:17 PM

double post sorry

Denaluvscorgis

07-13-2006, 05:17 PM

We have talked about this many many times.........someone coming on here for help and getting attacked. Let's just try to help her!!!

I had a litter of Corgi puppies....here's what I did:

I kept some old towels in the whelping box and changed them several times per day...it made for lot's of laundry. I also kept a heating pad on low in under the towels...it was cold then, so you don't need to worry about that.

When the puppies became more mobile...it put puppy pads and they would usually go on those. Newspaper will work to.

I WOULD NOT let the puppies go outside because they haven't been immunized.

DO they seem to be getting enough to eat from Mom? That's alot of puppies.

If you're worried that she's not able to get to them all for them to potty...you can always take a washcloth...wet it with lukewarm water and wash the area and that will stimultate them to potty.

I hope this helps a little.

Serena

07-13-2006, 05:22 PM

Serena, thanks for your helpful tips. And no where did I say that I couldn't afford to have them spayed and neutered. If I had known people like you would gripe about something that has already happened(over and over again), I would not have posted on here. Thanks, Smkie, at least you have been civil.

I did not say YOU could not afford the surgery. If you read the thread you would see that Smkie made a comment about not being able to afford the surgery and I responded to that.

I doubt any of us that isn't well financed could afford the fixing of 11 puppies, lets get serious here.

I am taking it that you are not really involved in the canine fancy and never did rescue work huh? Get involved, seriously involved and then tell me that "people like me gripe too much".

dr2little

07-13-2006, 05:26 PM

Serena, thanks for your helpful tips. And no where did I say that I couldn't afford to have them spayed and neutered. If I had known people like you would gripe about something that has already happened(over and over again), I would not have posted on here. Thanks, Smkie, at least you have been civil.

I feel badly that some found it necessary to attack without knowing all of the facts. The links that were posted are very good, I hope you'll ask for more help here if you need it...not everyone will jump to conclusions and there is a lot of experience on this forum.

Heatherew

07-13-2006, 05:27 PM

smkie

07-13-2006, 05:27 PM

I had an oops litter, i had an oops litter because my mary had a silent heat at 5 months. We didn't know she was pg until she was too far along. That is the absolute truth. I charged 35 dollars for each pup to ensure that they didn't go to bad places, and that paid for their vaccines. Most people don't realize that the dhlp is not enough and that a pup needs a booster not just once but in a series including AFter he/she leaves her mam. It took all of that money to get mama fixed so it didn't happen twice. I am just shocked at the responses here. For each of you that have never made a mistake, Bless you i hope you never do and if and when it does happen no matter what that mistake is, i hope you meet with the same kind of advise that you hand out.
Someone asks for help, you hand out judgements. What one of us could afford the spaying and neutering of not only the female but all 11 puppies that is just insane. Acccidents DO happen. Lets help pass on helpful information that will let a member learn how to best care for their babes, and help them into a new life instead of condemning them with your judgements. Shake head in wonder....
Please don't feel that coming here for help was a mistake.:( :confused:
i hope you come back and share pics too, i would love to see your babies!

I do not like to use a formula supplement unless MAM is completely unable to nurse at all and no foster mommy is available. It is very tricky with newborns and unless you know what you are doing you can get milk in the lungs. Nutrical on the other hand would be a wonderful thing to give mama. A teaspoon of it is huge in good calories and nutrients, all she needs. It is a bit expensive. My old boss added 3 cans a day of good meat to the kibble , one for each meal and mama was boosted a lunch as well as Breakfast and dinner. I put powdered milk, honey and some corn oil on Mary's food too. Best to sock the calories to mom and let nature make the proper diet. I wish you all the luck with your family and hope that you will come back and let us know how you are doing, if there is any other way i can help all ya gotta do is ask.

i forgot about worms..if mama wasn't taking heartworm preventative and dewormed before this happened you will want to take a stool sample up for the vet to see if the pups are infected. I have seen only a few day old pups that looked like they had a big belly full of milk actually vomit up round worms. More then you would ever think could fit in such a small baby.
If you want to do some early training one thing i did with all the pups at the kennels and my Mary's too was when the pups ears first open (same time as the eyes) i would wait until i knew it was just about time for them to wake up and i would blow a training whistle, not loud just a toot toot right behind the mama. Nothing like driving that message in early. Every dog i have done this with will about face and come home the second they hear the whistle. It really works!

last i promise..i made a little packet for the new owner with birth pics, early pics, all info on shots and diet, and when i sent them to their new life i sent a small bag of what they were eating so it could be mixed in with what they would feed afterwards if it were a change. Those were MY babies as well as Mary's and i took the very best care of them i could. I grew up working in a kennel. I was considered to be very good with puppies and especially with the birthing process. That is a large litter, with proper care each and every one should grow up fat and sassy. The largest litter we ever had was 14. I would let them nurse half the litter a time so everyone got their equal share. Letting the littlest ones go first. By making sure the front teats are getting nursed as well will keep them operating in good order ...Blessings on their little heads, i wish them well.

Serena

07-13-2006, 05:42 PM

FYI, I have adopted half a dozen animals from the shelter that would have been put to sleep, I DO love animals, and I am not an idiot. This was a mistake, and I posted on here to get advice, not criticism. And like I said, more than half of the pups already have people who want them(we out here in rural areas don't mind if they are not purebred dogs, some of the BEST dogs I have ever had have been mixed). AND I am going to keep at least one of the puppies. And yes, she will be spayed and get all her shots, as will all of the puppies.

Heather, loving animals does not make a responsible pet owner.

It is even more discouraging if you adopted animals from the shelter and did NOT spay your dog to prevent all this from happening in the first place.

What do you want me to say "The pups are here now whats done is done" What kind of message does that send to the lurkers on the forum that are casually considering breeding their pets?

Forgive me if I can't be more sympathetic to your plight I have seen too much to simply just dismiss these kinds of "mistakes".

smkie

07-13-2006, 05:45 PM

THat is why i stay out of this part of the forum so much of the time. THere is a huge difference between an accidental litter and a back yard breeder or someone that thinks the dog has to get pg to settle her down, or they want to have just one litter. I am outta here again for just exactly that reason. Comments like that just make me ill.:mad: If anyone has any questions, just pm me, i do not sit in judgement of people, i only want to help.

Serena

07-13-2006, 05:54 PM

*Sigh* I wish people could comprehend that breeding a litter, just ONE litter makes you a breeder...

And that one litter will forever decide what kind of breeder you are.

I don't believe in accidental breedings...Not when breeding is 100% preventable by the owner.

Heatherew

07-13-2006, 05:59 PM

Serena, it must be nice to have all the answers and know everything. I take that back, you DON'T know all the details about me or my animals. I have had EVERY one of my animals spayed/neutered, had an appt. for this dog and like Smkie said, she had a silent heat, got pregnant, and she was too far along. It was a bad thing, I didn't want it to happen, but it did. People should get their pets spayed and neutered.......I was not advocating letting dogs get pregnant!

I work my *** off taking care of these puppies. I am constantly checking on them, changing their papers, trying to make sure that they get enough to eat from their mom. I have one other dog, a cat, and two ferrets that I also have to take care of(AND YES, THEY ARE ALL SPAYED!). I have barely been sleeping because I get up in the middle of the night to check on the pups. They are almost like my kids. And don't attack me for saying ALMOST, I have a ten year old daughter, and I love my pets, but my daughter is number one.

But this circular conversation is over, it reminds me of a conversation I would have with a child. My dog got pregnant, I wish that it wouldn't have happened but it did, end of story. Only helpful advice will be appropriate from this point on.

Bailey+Ralph

07-13-2006, 06:03 PM

Heather.......My advice to you now would be to PM the people here that are trying to help you and leave this thread alone.

I was shocked when i read your 1st post here and didn't know what to say.
I however didn't (or didn't intend) to Judge you.
I cannot give advice as i have never Bred before.

I wish you all the luck with the puppies and Mummy.

smkie

07-13-2006, 06:08 PM

Good for you heatherew. I know exactly how much hard work a litter is. Just remember when reading through threads that one person does not speak for us all. They can give their opinion and it is up to you if you wish to hear it or dump it in file 13. The good thing is you can get a wide scope of perspective to a problem and sometimes find delightful new answers for everything from diet to training. I hope you will come back anytime you need us and bring pics;) too!
Your little girl will be a big help when it comes to socialization too. :)

Saje

07-13-2006, 06:40 PM

Heather. If people are bothering you there is an ignore option in your user profile. I really don't know if I can help as I know very little about breeding but there is good advice here and there are people with experience if they choose to offer constructive advice. I'm glad things seem to be going ok and I'm glad that spays are planned for the future ;)

bubbatd

07-13-2006, 07:07 PM

Heather, if you PM me your address, I'll send you the book. I feel it's that important to you and the pups. Also, if you make a space like others said... put towels or bedding in the pen and the newspaper outside. Otherwise they don;t know the difference for pooping.

Zoom

07-13-2006, 07:21 PM

RedyreRottweilers

07-13-2006, 07:25 PM

One way to have the puppies S/N before they go to new homes is to have the new owners come and sign their contract, and pay for the puppy. Then you drop the puppy at the vets for the S/N, and the new owner can pick it up there.

OR you can require a larger purchase price, with a refund given to the new owners after proof of spay/neuter.

S/N at 8 weeks is done frequently. Puppies have less post op pain, recover more quickly, and studies show no serious adverse affects from pediatric S/N.

So you could begin placing puppies now, collecting purchase price, and making S/N appts for when they are 8 weeks old.

You can also speak to your vet, if you are going to have 11 S/N clients in their office, I bet they will give you a good price break. (12 if you include your bitch).

:D

Mach1girl

07-13-2006, 07:41 PM

When mine were beyond staying in a small area, I bought a "pen" at Petsmart. It was 4 foot high, and like so many feet long. You can bend it in a circle. I put that on my tile floor with newspaper in one half and carpet in the other half. Even that though became almost unmanageable. As they would all jump and scoot it across my living room every day, and smear poo, and well, you know!!! It was a constant mopping deal. But it was used until the pups were gone and crates were started to be used.

Also, my Dixie cleaned her babies forever, seems like we had to make her stop.................and until this day I catch her cleaning them!(and after them!!!)

PoodleMommy

07-13-2006, 07:43 PM

I think almost everything has been said, as far as what needs to be done.

Only one thing to add, i was recently bottle feeding some kittens and I know it is hard to get them to take the formula at first. However, if any of the puppies appear not to be getting the nutrients they need I would try again with the bottles.

Like someone else said, just be careful to keep an eye on the smaller ones, try not to let them get pushed aside by their siblings.

I think everything else has been answered for you, let us know if you have anymore questions though.

Good Luck, Im sure 11 is a handful

Elissa

** What Mach is talking about is called an x-pen I believe that could def. help you contain them once they get too big for the box.

stand_watie

07-13-2006, 09:17 PM

Smkie has given you some wonderful advice. Follow it and you will have fat, happy puppies.

I cringed when I saw this thread, because I just knew the responses it was going to get. That's sad when you know something is going to get messy from the get-go. Yes, I understand the importance of emphasizing spay/neuter and leaving the breeding up to responsible people, but sh*t happens sometimes, and Heather at least came to us for help instead of dumping the mother before the litter or dumping/drowing the whole kit n' kaboodle afterwards. She's trying to do right by her oops litter, and that's more admirable than the actions most people take.

That's for sure. Where I live in the country people abandon their dogs all the time. It's gotten so I don't even blame my neighbors anymore who just shoot the strays and leave them for the buzzards after making a few trips to the animal shelter with strays that other people have abandoned and having to face down a spittle flying"spay/neuter!/spay/neuter!", shrieking harpy every time I go.

Fran27

07-14-2006, 12:42 AM

I agree with Zoom also... but if it had been me, the dog would have been spayed at the first hint of pregnancy, and if for some reason spaying hadn't been possible, I would have read about what to do with puppies for the whole next 62 days.

But yeah, glad to see she's asking for advice, and I'm sure she will get good one here.

ihartgonzo

07-14-2006, 05:33 AM

Best of luck with your BIG litter of pups. :) I can't say I envy you for all the work that you are putting in, despite how adorable they must be! It's great that you are doing a lot for these pups, and that you are set to prevent anymore litters from Mom, or from babies. Spay/neuter and return contracts are highly recommended, here!

It's gotten so I don't even blame my neighbors anymore who just shoot the strays and leave them for the buzzards after making a few trips to the animal shelter with strays that other people have abandoned and having to face down a spittle flying"spay/neuter!/spay/neuter!", shrieking harpy every time I go.

>:[ wth? I don't know if I understood that correctly, but you don't BLAME people who SHOOT dogs? That is truly a mature, commendable statement. I guess I'm a "spittle flying spay/neuter!/spay/neuter! shrieking harpy too, LMAO! It's a heck of a lot better than a "give me money for sick puppies! dogs are breeding machines" shrieking BYB-er/miller-er. Typical, blame the "mean" rescue volunteer & pity the abusers and abandoners who created the problem in the first place.

stand_watie

07-14-2006, 06:04 AM

..Typical, blame the "mean" rescue volunteer & pity the abusers and abandoners who created the problem in the first place.

Quit being mean and I won't blame you for it.

bubbatd

07-14-2006, 01:00 PM

To agree with Smkie and Redy .....put the strongest nursing pups on the upper teats.... I had one large litter who actually got 2 more working .... as to Redy's comment, the refund when proof of spay or neutering is a great idea.

RedyreRottweilers

07-14-2006, 01:56 PM

She could also have puppy buyers not pay ANYTHING. They could come sign the contract, make their own vet appt for S/N.

Breeder could then deliver puppy to the vet, with the buyer picking up the pup post surgery and paying for the S/N.

Keep in mind the younger they are done, the smaller they are and the less it will cost.

:D

mamasobuco

07-14-2006, 04:52 PM

dr2little

07-14-2006, 04:59 PM

That's for sure. Where I live in the country people abandon their dogs all the time. It's gotten so I don't even blame my neighbors anymore who just shoot the strays and leave them for the buzzards after making a few trips to the animal shelter with strays that other people have abandoned and having to face down a spittle flying"spay/neuter!/spay/neuter!", shrieking harpy every time I go.

Anyone who would shoot a dog is a &*^$$@...what a horrible thing to post!

No excuse for that kind of ignorance.:mad:

LizzieCollie

07-14-2006, 05:55 PM

40. ‘To Heatherview: Talk to the vet to see how much he will charge you for the 12 dogs (pups and momma) and whatever the price you divide it up between the 11 pups and thats what you would charge as the adoption fee. Lets say you sum up 500 dollars divide that into 11 it would be 45.45454545 So you could charge 60-80 dollars so you can cover the spay/neuter and still have money left to get them their first shots. I personally buy a 6 in 1 or 7in1 shot and that’s what I give them. Its much cheaper than paying for the vet visits plus the shot and if you get it from a good place its pretty safe. Good luck with your pups!

MomOf7

07-14-2006, 05:56 PM

I wish you and your pups the best.

ihartgonzo

07-14-2006, 07:25 PM

Quit being mean and I won't blame you for it.

Oh gladly, as soon as you quit being ignorant. :)

stevinski

07-14-2006, 08:21 PM

*Sigh* I wish people could comprehend that breeding a litter, just ONE litter makes you a breeder...

shut up it does!
your actually being too harsh to this person, her dog had an accidental litter!
it really doesnt make you a breeder if your dog had puppies, it makes you a person whos dog had puppies, a breeder is someone who organises it.

a breeder in the dictionary is 'someone who breeds animals'
unless i'm missing something, this person didnt intentionally breed her dog, so that doesnt make her a breeder, and i for one wish her all the best and hope that everything goes ok.

bubbatd

07-14-2006, 10:16 PM

Let's support ... it's done. No, she's not a breeder, she is the owner of a female who had puppies. She cares about them and for them. This forum is for people who Google for help and luckily end up here. I notice that most of the negative post are from people I'm not familiar with. The longer you are on this forum , the more you learn that we mostly are a compassionate bunch of dog lovers. Now, how are those pups doing ????

stand_watie

07-14-2006, 10:30 PM

Oh gladly, as soon as you quit being ignorant. :)

If not being ignorant in your book means to start being nasty to people who are bringing other people's abandoned dogs in to the shelter, or to start berating people who are obviously caring owners who made a mistake, and are trying to rectify it by trying to become better owners by getting good information on puppy rearing, then thanks anyway, I'll remain "ignorant". If you meant my not "blaming" my neighbors for shooting dogs comment, fine, I retract it. Perhaps I should have said I'm not surprised by my neighbors doing that rather than having to deal with jerks at the shelter blaming them for other people's abuse.

Squidbert

07-14-2006, 10:32 PM

Hope everything's going very well with those pups and they're getting nice and plump! :)

*Ahem*

Pics? :)

Squidbert

07-14-2006, 10:34 PM

jerks at the shelter blaming them for other people's abuse.

Maybe you should direct your anger at these people you're referring to.. ?

Just an idea..

Brattina88

07-14-2006, 10:41 PM

I also hope the pups and Mom are well! Do you have any pictures? Puppies are too cute not to photograph ;) :D

PoodleMommy

07-14-2006, 10:53 PM

Photos would be nice...

not rushing you or anything...:p

MomOf7

07-14-2006, 11:02 PM

If not being ignorant in your book means to start being nasty to people who are bringing other people's abandoned dogs in to the shelter, or to start berating people who are obviously caring owners who made a mistake, and are trying to rectify it by trying to become better owners by getting good information on puppy rearing, then thanks anyway, I'll remain "ignorant". If you meant my not "blaming" my neighbors for shooting dogs comment, fine, I retract it. Perhaps I should have said I'm not surprised by my neighbors doing that rather than having to deal with jerks at the shelter blaming them for other people's abuse.
http://www.burnleyweb.com/forum/images/smilies/focus2.gif
My dog had 11 puppies, help!!!
http://media.funlol.com/content/img/take-a-chill-pill.jpg

Also I understand your frustration as we see things similar to this almost daily. We know about all the unwanted pets who are put to sleep because of irresponsible owners. We feel you there! Just calm down. You will get a better reaction if you are kind. I fall short of this too. I too let my emotions over ride logic.
Look at the title of this thread.
She asked for help.
Take a step back take a few deep breaths.
She has the information she needs. We cant make choices for other people so she has to make her own choices and live with the outcomes. Just like everyone else in the world has to do. Humility is a friend at times and helps us to see how we arent so perfect ourselves. Shoot this post took me 3 times of previewing to make it to where I felt it would be read the way I meant it.

To the poster,
You have some really good information that was shared that is why I wished you the best in my last post. I still do wish you and all 11 of your lil babies the best. Chaz has alot of great members who really do care and are passionate about pets. Stick around you might make a friend or 3:D or more! You will definatly learn a thing or two! I know I have:D

stand_watie

07-15-2006, 12:42 AM

Maybe you should direct your anger at these people you're referring to.. ?Just an idea.. I have expressed my displeasure with their behavior to their faces. Ihartgonzo said she was one of them, so I expressed it to her as well.

ihartgonzo

07-15-2006, 01:49 AM

I have expressed my displeasure with their behavior to their faces. Ihartgonzo said she was one of them, so I expressed it to her as well.

NO, I would never "berate" some one for bringing in a stray dog. I think that is awesome, any dog is safer in a shelter (even a kill shelter) than living on the streets, and so is society. I have brought to the SPCA dozens of stray dogs in my city who had no identification, if they have identification I make my best attempts to track down the people (which, every time I've found a dog with tags, I have found the owner within the day).

The comment I was most puzzled by is your supporting shooting animals. I don't care if there's a lady who is annoying at the shelter, are you honestly saying a few minutes of annoyance is too painful to save an animals life? If so, you have issues of your own to deal with. You also put her down for encouraging people to spay & neuter. It isn't her fault that SO many people allow their intact dogs to stray and repeatedly become impregnated, for no reason other than laziness.

I definitely feel the OP is a caring person who is honestly experiencing an accident litter (not a too-lazy-to-alter litter), and coming here to get help is a great thing.

stand_watie

07-15-2006, 02:19 AM

NO, I would never "berate" some one for bringing in a stray dog. I think that is awesome

I'm glad to hear that, then perhaps you spoke to quickly in including yourself as a shrieking harpy.

The comment I was most puzzled by is your supporting shooting animals.

The comment was over the top and I've already said I retract it - it was a response to the berating the OP got from the get go - I was making the point that those who simply attack people who are genuinely trying to do the right thing, even if you don't agree with an earlier action they made, can do more harm than good. In the specific instance I cited, driving away people who care enough about abandoned dogs to take them to the shelter, but not enough about them to take the to the shelter, and put up with a rash of sht about it as well.

You also put her down for encouraging people to spay & neuter. No, I put her down for continuing her little spay/neuter tirade at me after I had told her repeatedly that it wasn't my dog and that my dogs were spayed/nuetered (which she'd have known if she'd bothered to remember that I adopted my dogs there), and then for doing it again every time I brought another stray in.

I definitely feel the OP is a caring person who is honestly experiencing an accident litter (not a too-lazy-to-alter litter), and coming here to get help is a great thing.

If she'd been like a lot of people, she'd just have just gone elsewhere for advice after first having to put up with the shtstorm of

http://www.buybelowcost.com/smclassifiedspro/graemlins/headbang.gif

http://www.buybelowcost.com/smclassifiedspro/graemlins/pissed.gif

http://www.buybelowcost.com/smclassifiedspro/graemlins/lipseal.gif

and then Serena tearing into her like that. If she'd been a reader thinking of asking advice on how to care for her puppies, maybe not ask for help at all for fear of being flamed.

Maybe obstetricians/pediatricians should take that tack whenever they have a patient who they think shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place wants pre/post natal care. Maybe it would cut down on unplanned children. More likely it would just cause unplanned children to not get good medical care.

RedyreRottweilers

07-15-2006, 09:36 AM

bubbatd

07-15-2006, 10:39 AM

Shall we PM our insults and stick to the subject ???? She should receive " How To Raise A Puppy You Can Live With " , which I sent her, by Monday. To me it was like a small donation to a HS....saving some pups from possible problems.

stand_watie

07-15-2006, 11:23 AM

how typical that you would compare the selective responsible breeding of dogs to humans.

You conveniently omit the helpful and educational links I provided, along with a spay neuter contract, and suggestions for methods of getting the puppies S/N before they go to their new homes.

I don't consider a few emoticons indicating my frustration with things like this a sh*tstorm.

YOUR posts on the matter, however, could qualify as that.

Of course you don't. Because you're not on the receiving end of your own posts. Since you're on the receiving end of mine, of course it's a different story. Here's a suggestion for you. Pick a topic. Any topic. Research it just a tiny bit. Let's say an automotive maintenance forum. Go find a message board on that topic, that has a bunch of "experts" on it, and post a "please help" post on the topic, saying that you are at a loss for what to do because you accidentally put motor oil in the transmission instead of transmission fluid.

Wait for the "what an idiot you are", and "God I can't believe you're such a moron" comments to start to fly, and then imagine that you actually are a person who tried to do the best by their car, did something wrong, and then tried to rectify it by asking people more knowledgeable than you advice and the first responses you got were criticism, sarcasm and innuendo that you are stupid. It might make you hesitant to ask questions in the future. Hell it might just make you think that car maintenance types are a bunch of a-holes and not worth the grief of asking questions of.

I at least have the nerve to admit when I make a mistake and make remarks that are uncalled for. But my response when someone else makes a mistake and asks for help (a mistake in understanding how important spaying is at an age when the dog can't get pregnant, not a deliberate belittlement of another human being) isn't to attack them and suggest they're stupid, but to try and help. First. Not after I smack my forhead with my fist and go "God you're an idiot".

Serena

07-15-2006, 11:42 AM

shut up it does!
your actually being too harsh to this person, her dog had an accidental litter!
it really doesnt make you a breeder if your dog had puppies, it makes you a person whos dog had puppies, a breeder is someone who organises it.

a breeder in the dictionary is 'someone who breeds animals'
unless i'm missing something, this person didnt intentionally breed her dog, so that doesnt make her a breeder, and i for one wish her all the best and hope that everything goes ok.

She BRED her dog...whether intentional or NOT she allowed it to happen.

Saying "My dog accidentally was bred" is a cop and an excuse...

A properly supervised dog does NOT have accidental litters.

Fixed animals do NOT have accidental litters.

The only way the dog could have been bred was if the OP allowed it to happen, by her own actions or inactions.

Many here are quick to applaud the OP for caring for these puppies rather than dumping them...I have to be honest I find that slightly dissapointing...You should not be praised or applauded for doing what you are supposed to do.

These puppies are in the world now, they are forever the OP's responsibility, by allowing them to be born the OP has made an unspoken commitment to their care and well being. I will not cheer someone on for doing what they are supposed to do.

In regards to me tearing into her...Believe me, those familiar with my feelings on irresponsible breeding can attest that for me I was being "gentle" with her.

PoodleMommy

07-15-2006, 12:02 PM

This woman did not breed her dog.

She has already said that, she was ready to have the dog spayed and that the dog had a silent heat.

She rescues these dogs from shelters and does everything she can to make sure they have good lives. She made a mistake. I am sure you have made some too.

She obviously did not plan on this and had no idea what to do. She came here to make sure she was doing the best possible thing for them. She could have put them all in a box and left them on the front steps of the HS. But she is trying to be responsible. I have not seen her back on here, so she was probably scared away by those people who could not keep their comments to themselves and now when she has a problem she will probably not come and get the answers she needs.

Elissa

Squidbert

07-15-2006, 12:07 PM

Dear GOD!!! Why does this have to keep happening!!!!! :mad:

sigh

Now.. how are those pups? :)

Bailey+Ralph

07-15-2006, 12:13 PM

Of course you don't. Because you're not on the receiving end of your own posts. Since you're on the receiving end of mine, of course it's a different story. Here's a suggestion for you. Pick a topic. Any topic. Research it just a tiny bit. Let's say an automotive maintenance forum. Go find a message board on that topic, that has a bunch of "experts" on it, and post a "please help" post on the topic, saying that you are at a loss for what to do because you accidentally put motor oil in the transmission instead of transmission fluid.

Wait for the "what an idiot you are", and "God I can't believe you're such a moron" comments to start to fly, and then imagine that you actually are a person who tried to do the best by their car, did something wrong, and then tried to rectify it by asking people more knowledgeable than you advice and the first responses you got were criticism, sarcasm and innuendo that you are stupid. It might make you hesitant to ask questions in the future. Hell it might just make you think that car maintenance types are a bunch of a-holes and not worth the grief of asking questions of.

I at least have the nerve to admit when I make a mistake and make remarks that are uncalled for. But my response when someone else makes a mistake and asks for help (a mistake in understanding how important spaying is at an age when the dog can't get pregnant, not a deliberate belittlement of another human being) isn't to attack them and suggest they're stupid, but to try and help. First. Not after I smack my forhead with my fist and go "God you're an idiot".

Good Point!!

stand_watie

07-15-2006, 12:45 PM

Good Point!!

Is that a bull terrier in your pictures? A lot of folks around here keep them for hunting dogs and general farm dogs. They call them "pit bulls" From every one I've seen a very badly misunderstood breed by the popular press. Every one I've seen has been a really great dog, albiet very high energy!

I used to go out into my yard every morning and find my Rottweiler playing exuberently with the neighbor's pack of pit bulls. They would have great "wrestling matches" where the "Big dog" (mine) would get jumped upon (not actually attacked, just horseplay biting) by the group of smaller dogs and then the'yd try to drag him to the ground by sheer numbers. My neighbor wasn't such a great doggie owner. My poor wife got dragged through the mud repeatedly trying to get the silly beasts back into the neighbors yard:D

But they had fun. They were all puppies really, my rottweiler and the pits.

p.s. I know this really wrong of me to notice in the order I did (but after all this is a dog forum so expect me to notice the obvious first :D But the kids are positively radiant! Those beautiful blue eyes! You are truly blessed. I've got a big blue eyed beauty too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/Stand_Watie/family%20photos/digitalpicsoctober05067.jpg

(sorry for the OT folks, but you have to allow a guy his bragging rights :D)

Serena

07-15-2006, 12:51 PM

This woman did not breed her dog.

She has already said that, she was ready to have the dog spayed and that the dog had a silent heat.

Actually she did breed her dog, whether indirectly or not. Her actions allowed the dog to become impregnated..

The OP said she had an appointment to have the dog fixed and it got pregnant.

If she had the appointment already there would have been ample time to spay the dog and terminate the pregnancy.

I believe it was Smkie who mentioned having a litter once from a dog that had a silent heat and when she found out it was too late to terminate the pregnancy...

If the OP had an appointment for getting her dog fixed and she knew it needed to be fixed and she gave it the opportunity to get pregnant then honestly shame on her.

A silent heat is no excuse...if you know you have an intact bitch and you do NOT want puppies then you best be sure to do everything in your power to ensure you don't have a litter.

She rescues these dogs from shelters and does everything she can to make sure they have good lives. [

She may be trying to do her best but that does not make what she excusable...it is NOT unreasonable to think that someone who "adopted half a dozen animals from the shelter that would have been put to sleep" would know how important it was to not allow this to happen.

She made a mistake. I am sure you have made some too.

I have yet to make a mistake with my own pets or any of the foster dogs that have been in my care but for the record in the event I ever do I would fully expect a verbal lashing.

She obviously did not plan on this and had no idea what to do.

She did not plan it...but she did NOT do all she could to prevent it either.

She came here to make sure she was doing the best possible thing for them. She could have put them all in a box and left them on the front steps of the HS. But she is trying to be responsible.

Again others may choose to see things differently...I will not applaud her for not dumping the pups...I don't praise people for doing what they are supposed to do. It is her responsibility to take care of these puppies now.

I have not seen her back on here, so she was probably scared away by those people who could not keep their comments to themselves and now when she has a problem she will probably not come and get the answers she needs.

I honestly doubt she was scared away, I am more apt to believe she is either not logging in and in lurk mode or she is busy in her daily life.

"Those people who could not keep their comments to themselves?" Shall I guess that you are referring to me because I think its safe to say that most people on this thread "bit their tongue" to keep from "saying" what they really thought about all this.

PoodleMommy

07-15-2006, 01:09 PM

Wow, look I got my post broken up into cute little quotes and every sentence was dissected for me, just in case I forgot what I said:mad:

Elissa

Serena

07-15-2006, 01:20 PM

Wow, look I got my post broken up into cute little quotes and every sentence was dissected for me, just in case I forgot what I said:mad:

Elissa

****** and moaning because I broke up your post in quotes is really grasping at straws..Its reminds me of when there is a debate going on in a thread and one party does not know how to respond so they go on and on about a mispelled word. :rolleyes:

Bailey+Ralph

07-15-2006, 02:27 PM

Is that a bull terrier in your pictures? A lot of folks around here keep them for hunting dogs and general farm dogs. They call them "pit bulls" From every one I've seen a very badly misunderstood breed by the popular press. Every one I've seen has been a really great dog, albiet very high energy!

I used to go out into my yard every morning and find my Rottweiler playing exuberently with the neighbor's pack of pit bulls. They would have great "wrestling matches" where the "Big dog" (mine) would get jumped upon (not actually attacked, just horseplay biting) by the group of smaller dogs and then the'yd try to drag him to the ground by sheer numbers. My neighbor wasn't such a great doggie owner. My poor wife got dragged through the mud repeatedly trying to get the silly beasts back into the neighbors yard

But they had fun. They were all puppies really, my rottweiler and the pits.

p.s. I know this really wrong of me to notice in the order I did (but after all this is a dog forum so expect me to notice the obvious first :D But the kids are positively radiant! Those beautiful blue eyes! You are truly blessed. I've got a big blue eyed beauty too.

Bailey is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier.......He is a Darling :)
Thank you for the comment on my Children........I have to agree that they are all Radiant :D
You daughter is beautiful........I love her eyes :)

Heatherew

07-15-2006, 02:55 PM

Thanks again to everyone who knows how to act CIVIL on this message board. Yes, Serena, I have been busy in my daily life taking care of these puppies. But of course that's what I deserve since I messed up and made a mistake, right? And by the way, by the time I realized she was pregnant, I was advised that it was too late to terminate. It IS risky to terminate once they get past a certain point. Anyway, the puppies are doing good, I have put a picture of them on here(I can't get my camera to take a decent pic today, this is from 2 weeks ago). And as for the negative people on here, go find some othere message board to flame. I don't have time to wade through your condescending posts while trying to find helpful advice.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n271/heatherew/Newborns.jpg

Squidbert

07-15-2006, 03:01 PM

Awww... lookit them!!!!! They're beautiful!! And so is momma! :)

Fran27

07-15-2006, 03:08 PM

Awwww. Can't wait to see more pics as they grow up. Mommy is beautiful too.

Heatherew

07-15-2006, 03:25 PM

Thanks, they are beautiful, aren't they? Two are black and white, one looks like a chocolate lab, two look like black labs, four look just like their momma, and the last two, I don't know how to describe. They are sort of German Shepherd looking, but they are mostly black. VERY cute. I will post more pics later, I gotta get some rest while they are sleeping.:)

Bailey+Ralph

07-15-2006, 03:30 PM

Awe, they are beautiful :)

bubbatd

07-15-2006, 03:58 PM

lOVELY LITTER ! THANKS FOR SHARING !

RedyreRottweilers

07-15-2006, 04:21 PM

How adorable they are. I don't know of many things sweeter than little baby puppies.

Best of luck over the next few weeks until they are ready to go to their new homes.

mozza

07-15-2006, 05:13 PM

awwwww they are so cute.....i want one(jk) i dont hav the room !!!

oh and Serena can i just say if you dont hav any thing nice to say go away !!!!!! how old are you stop attact poeple we are not a school any more !!!!!! grow up
and plz dont Quote every thing i say

smkie

07-15-2006, 05:28 PM

Oh my i am in love! The one with the spot on it's head looks like my bronki. I hope he has a long and loved life!!! as well as all the other babies. Thank you so much for sharing. I hope we get updates too..hint hint hint;) :)

PoodleMommy

07-15-2006, 05:56 PM

they are so cute. I love the white and black ones.

As they get bigger they look like they will be quite the handful, I can not imagine 11 pups at once, i wish you all the best and hope you have some help, or at least a fenced in yard.

Elissa

Heatherew

07-15-2006, 08:43 PM

Mozza, I totally agree with you!!!!!!!

Smkie, the one with the spot on it's head is the runt. I have been trying hard to put her on to feed first, or by herself sometimes.

This momma dog is driving me crazy, sometimes it seems like she likes to nap for long periods while her babies are whining. So, I have been putting the ones on her that are whining or using the warm washcloth trick. I guess she just isn't sure what to do either, I guess we all have to learn!:)

jess2416

07-15-2006, 08:45 PM

They are beautiful :D I hope you will keep us updated with pics as the pups get older :)

Zoom

07-15-2006, 09:38 PM

Those are adorable puppies! I wish you patience and good luck over the next two months!

MyIrishWolfie

07-15-2006, 10:13 PM

What a cute bunch of puppies :p

I wish you the best of luck with them :)

bubbatd

07-15-2006, 10:27 PM

Heads up !!! " THE " book should really help you ...let me know when you get it and post your thoughts here. I raised litters before it came out , but after getting it , really raised litters correctly and helped new owners. Through the testings , my daughters chose pups different from what they thought was their choice. I took off all color coding known by them... so they had no idea who they were testing. The matches were perfect for what they wanted .

mozza

07-16-2006, 06:15 AM

Mozza, I totally agree with you!!!!!!!

i hate it when i see ppl hav a go at other ppl when they hav asked for help
it make me mad, i just think to my self what has the world come to if we can't even ask each other for help with out get attacted my rude ppl and what kind of world is it going to be for and kid's when they grow up,i mean do they look at these rude ppl and think thats the way to be or will they look at the nice ppl and think that the way to be god know's
but it make me sick,i hate rude ppl

anyway sorry for going on i will get back to the pup's how are they doing ?
hope they and mum are doing ok :)

donna x

Heatherew

07-16-2006, 09:27 AM

My puppies are doing good, although sometimes it seems like the mom is lazy. Some of them will be whining, and I will take them to her to eat but they don't want to eat. So then I will try to get her to lick them, and she just sits there, so I have to use the warm washcloth trick. I guess in a matter of days they should ALL be able to go to the bathroom without help?

Sheka

07-17-2006, 12:18 PM

AWWWWWWWWWW! Give them all big kisses for me! and an extra big hug for mom, they are beautiful! :) Im glad evreything went well and glad that u still posted pictures even tho certain people..serena.. were mean to u.
i dunno about the bathroom thing, try asking a vet or some1 here who had a litter. THEY ARE SOOOO CUTE!! :D

smkie

07-17-2006, 12:28 PM

That is an awful big litter for poor ol Mom. Bet she is just simply tired out. We had a girl at the kennels too that wasn't cut out for being a mom, some are, some aren't. Great that you are there as a nanny backup.:) ;) WIth that many she needs you! It won't be long and they will be piddling everywhere.:rolleyes: eyes open yet?

Serena

07-17-2006, 02:22 PM

Some people choose to support, coddle, and applaud backyard breeders. Others do not.

Some people choose to support, coddle, and applaud irresponsible pet owners. Others do not.

Being one of those people who choose NOT to support, coddle, and applaud irresponsible breeders and pet owners does not make someone mean.

There is a difference between saying something to be intentionally cruel and saying something because someone had to say it and having the truth be unpleasant.

If however being 100% anti-irresponsible breeding and anti-irresponsible pet ownership makes me mean then I would rather be mean than compassionate any day of the week.

There is an ignore feature on the forum. If someone does not like what I have to say then they are free to use it.

I will never coddle or support these kinds of actions.