Newbie Breeder EXPECTING!

[ChiBree]

Well its day 62 this morning my Chi's temp went to 98.6, her average is 99.9 in the AM, and 100 in the PM. NOW WHAT???

[yoko]

uhhh maybe you should be breeding yet...

[RedyreRottweilers]

Be ready for puppies.

If you witness nesting, panting, and contractions, expect a puppy in no longer than an hour.

More than an hour, get to your vet.

[ChiBree]

Everyone starts somewhere! I know what comes next....just looking for others advice. I'm working closly with my vet and two 30 year breeders. Her temp was 98.6 at 6:18am and then went to 99.2 at 1:30pm today. MY vet said this is normal and after the "drop" the temp goes back normal., and that she is on her way and should be 12 to 24 hours. Is this correct?

[ChiBree]

Red, I guess thats why I was asking becasue she is showing absolutly no signs yet. Just sleeping on my lap :) She's eating her treats and no nestiong is being done.

[RedyreRottweilers]

I would say once she stays under 99 in the PM, be ready.

Good luck.

You know about sections, eclampsia and that then?

[ChiBree]

Oh yes! I've read until I'm blue in the face :) I've been preparing for the whole 62 days.
So your saying this morning temp drop isn't it?

[stevinski]

all i can say is be ready for a C-section if nessersary!!!!
and GOOD LUCK!!!
keep us informed!

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Im not here to critisize... I started somewhere too. Keep a close eye on her. Watch for nesting behavior such as digging in clothes or going into dark places like behind your couch or under your bed. Sometimes their temp can drop and then go right back up again so keep taking her temp to see if it stays low for a while. But at day 62 shes most likely ready and will deliver, most likely within the next 15 hours. What I usually do is put my ready to whelp females in an ex pen in the corner of my bedroom and put the blinds down so it is quiet and dark. Get some clean towels ready for her to lay on while she whelps. Get a few towels because you will have to change them periodically because they get dirty really quick. Also get a few face clothes to clean the puppies off with. She will do it herself but it is good to dry them too. You might want to get a sterile set of nail clippers or scissors to cut the umbilical cords. She will also do this herself but its better if do it since this is her first litter? (Correct me if I am wrong). If you let her do it she may bite them off too short and the puppy will bleed a lot. Make sure you cut the umbilical cord off about an inch and a half or two inches from the belly, then pinch the cut end of the umbilical cord for about a minute. Watch to make sure it doesn't start bleeding again. You may also want to get a basket and put a heating pad turned on low or hot water bottle in the bottem covered with some soft towels so that you can move the puppies into it while the female is delivering the next puppy. That way you eliminate the chance of the puppies getting squished while she delivers. Not all dogs are that careless but some are. In between deliveries you can give the pups back to her. Also please understand that some dogs get very protective the minute they deliver the first pup. She may not want you any where near her. If thats the case step back and watch and if you see her having any problems then step in. And please DO NOT GIVE UP ON A PUPPY. If they come out and they are not breathing it DOES NOT mean that they are dead. Put them in a face cloth and rub them vigorously. If that doesnt work then wrap them in the face cloth, cup your hands around the puppy with its head facing away from you, stand up, put the puppy above your head and kind of fling it towards that ground. MAKE SURE YOU HANG ON!!! AND SUPPORT THE PUPPIES WHOLE BODY! and then rub the puppy again. I have worked on puppies for 20 minutes like this and they finally came around and were fine. If you have any more ?'s or need some more help email me @ savethebulliedbreeds@hotmail.com and I will send you my phone number. Best of luck.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Yes, if the temp does not stay under 99, you likely have some time left.

BUT DON'T LEAVE HER AT THIS POINT.'

Best of luck, and keep us posted.

[ChiBree]

Save - thanks for all the advise! I've got my basket of supplies all ready, including everything you stated. I have two Whelping videos I've watched over and over and over :)
My main concern now is just When! Of course I work and took today off as soon as her temp dropped. So I have to try and juggle my normal work life in as well. I've just read over and over and told by my vet that once the temp dropped, it would be 12 to 24 hours. But when it went up this afternoon to 99.2 (it was 98.6 this morning) I was puzzled. My Vet told me this was the process and she was proceding. He said that the temp only drops for 12 hours or less then returns to normal. So am I correct in thinking she will deliver anytime between today and tomorrow?

[ChiBree]

Yes, if the temp does not stay under 99, you likely have some time left.

BUT DON'T LEAVE HER AT THIS POINT.'

Best of luck, and keep us posted.
Do you know how much time? Is it still 12 to 24 hours?

[RedyreRottweilers]

That is entirely up to your bitch.

They don't read the books or watch the vids.

:D

[savethebulliedbreeds]

I would definately say.....expect puppies soon!!! The main thing to look for is the behaviors and such. That is a sure sign. Keep us updated.

[ChiBree]

all i can say is be ready for a C-section if nessersary!!!!
and GOOD LUCK!!!
keep us informed!
Why do you think she'll need a c-section? I know there is always that possibility and my vet is on call for me if I have problems and he has givin me all the quidelines on when to call. His instructions were if after 4 hours of contractions and no pup- CALL. If after 2 hours and no second pup - CALL If 10 minutes of a pup crowning - CALL.

[stevinski]

because alot of chihuahuas that are pregnant need c-sections, its just a chihuahau thing, same with bulldogs.

btw heres a site: www.chihuahua-people.com they will help you sooo much

[savethebulliedbreeds]

I agree, that the possibiliy is definately there. I breed Chihuahuas and Pomeranians. I have had to have C-sections on all of my bitches---both breeds.

[RedyreRottweilers]

NO NO NO.

DO NOT let your bitch go for more than an HOUR in active labor with hard contractions.

4 hours and you will have a dead bitch.

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Yeah, definately no more than an hour in hard labour. Wait any longer (especially with a small dog) and you will be in trouble.

[ChiBree]

Thanks for the info. I'm soooo hoping everything goes ok with her and she doesn't need a c-section. How accurate are ultra sounds? I had one done 2 - 3 weeks ago and my vet did one free of charge just to see the pups. He didn't shave her or lay her out, just did it while standing. We only seen two pups. But she's pretty big and when feeling her belly. we seem to feel more than two pups in there! Also I showed a breeder friend of mine who's been breeding 30 years and she also said she look like she's carrying more than two.

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Some chi's get really it with only one so that is not the best way to judge. I get xrays done on all mine. So for that way has been bang on. I like knowing exactly how many I have. I had a in home vet tell me once that there were no more pups in my one pomeranian and thankfully I knew from the xrays that there were three. I told the vet she didnt know what she was talking about (and she didnt) and took her into another vet who had to do a c-section to deliver the last pup.

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Sorry the last post is supposed to say "Some chi's get really big with only one pup" I don't know what I was thinking when I was typing. LOL.

[ChiBree]

So maybe there are only two. But we were feeling them all over, way up high and real low. Unless ther are are super long.... :) Until she haves them I am not going to be able to relax! I just wish I knew....WHEN! :) I'm propbably just being too impatient and she'll have them tonight......

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Yeah, don't get to anxious. I used to be like that too. It never helps anything but its hard not to be...especially with your first litter. Just relax. You will be fine.

[savethebulliedbreeds]

It is hard to tell just by feeling. Chi pups tend to be long and slender. They could be kicking all four feet at once and believe it or not they can stretch out a bit in there lol.

[ChiBree]

I guess I'm not going to know until they come then...I'll be hoping for more than two though! :)

I just hope its soon! How long do I let her go without going into labor? Today is day 62?

[Mach1girl]

Mine came day 63.....Well, If I remember right, she started at like 12am on day 63, she had a pup starting at 1230 or 1, somthing like that, but after 4, I fell asleep, and in the am she had a total of 8.

Glad nothing went wrong, so dont fall asleep, rest up while you can.

My pups are 5 months old now(can you believe it???) and I still have not had a decent nights sleep due to them!!

Good luck, keep us up on it!

[savethebulliedbreeds]

I would talk to your vet. A lot of the times (since puppies grow so fast), puppies past 63 days may be too big to come out on their own. I had a chihuahua that we let go to day 64 but then we opted for voluntary c-section. She was huge and over due. Yes, this is gonna cost money but it may save your dogs life in the end. If you have a voluntary c-section done when they are over due and they are not in labour it is a whole lot easier on them because they aren't already tired and stressed from the labour. I mean if they are in labour and over due there is a good chance that one or more of those puppies is already too big. When we had the voluntary c-section done and they pulled 5 puppies from her it was a relief because two of them were WAY to big to come out. So if we had waited we would have had to rush her in for one anyways. And there would have been a greater chance that something could have gone wrong. C-sections are very routine but there is always that chance. Like I said. Talk to your vet if she ends up being over due. They may want to take xrays to compare head sizes to see if the will fit. Is she fairly big in the middle? If she only has 2 or 3 in there and she is large they may get too big. I mean there was 5 crammed into my little girl and 2 of them were huge lol. Either way I hope everything goes well. Keep me informed. I am excited for you.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Supervision of the whelping of each puppy is not an option for me. I stayed up for 38 hours waiting for my last litter.

If you are not there for each puppy to be born, you could have real problems later, and you may not know WHY.

If a puppy is breach, it may not breathe soon enough. If the bitch does not clean the placenta and the birth membranes off quick enough, the puppy may have oxygen deprivation.

Bitches, ESPECIALLY MAIDEN BITCHES, should have caring help with each puppy's arrival.

To do otherwise is to risk the unthinkable.

[MomOf7]

Chi I hope everything is ok with your bitch. Keep us updated. I really have nothing to add as everyone pretty much covered it all.
Good luck and happy whelping!

[bubbatd]

I'm with Redy ... I never leave a bitch when things are ripe.

[ChiBree]

9:51pm Day 62 - I want to thank all that have replied! I'm not worried yet. She was bred on may 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th. Today is day 62 counting the day of the 1st breeding. 6:18am her temp dropped to 98.6, 5 minutes later I retested (just to make sure I did it correctly!) and it read 98.4, 12 hours later at 6:18pm her temp was 99.5.
So far nothing, she's eating, sleeping alot, not leaving my side. The only change is she wants to go out and potty more today,
I do not plan leave her side. I work ful time 5 days a week and am trying to figure out when this will all start happening so I can arrange it with work. I called in today, and looks like I will have to call in again. (they are gonna love me) But I refuse to leave her. Just hoping anyone out there can let me know the temperature deal.

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Some dogs don't stop eating until they actually go into labour. I know all the books say that they stop eating but like someone in this post already said....dogs don't read books. If her temp was below 99 chances are you will have puppies very soon....but then again that isn't always the case. Just keep an eye on her. And I agree that you NEED to be there for the delivery of each pup, otherwise things can go very wrong.

[ChiBree]

8:15am (Thursday) Still no action. Am I correct on counting the days from the FIRST breeding? She ate a few bites of breakfast. I offered her her puppy Iams soft food, the one in the bag that is sliced in gravy. She licked the gravy and only ate a few pieces and wanted to go back to bed.
My Vet opens in 15 minutes and I'm going to call just to make sure things are on track. I ve been calling him everyday!
If nothing happens today/tonight my husband agreed to take tomorrow off and watch her and as soon as anything happens.....he'll call me. I'll be 50 minutes away, but I'll have time, as I'll have him call at the VERY FIRST sign of any behavior.
Her temp was 99.4 this morning.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Just checking back to see if you ahve babies yet.

:D

[Mach1girl]

Dixies temp dropped all of a sudden, then all the excitement began. If I remember, it went up, then dove. Within hours, that evening, the nesting and panting began.

Poor girl, I mostly remember the pain she was in, she was vocal for the first few, then it seemed to get better.

Watch the first pup or two, when she has it/them, she will frantically clean it. But a bitch can be too rough, Dixie was rolling that first one back and forth like a tennis ball and had to make her stop! before she hrt it. After the 3rd, she was like~Whatever, is it over yet???

Good luck.

[ChiBree]

Just checking back to see if you ahve babies yet.

:D
11:18 am (Thursday) Nothing yet! All she is doing is laying on my lap. Pups are very active and her tummy is hard. Called the Vet to let them know whats going on and they were going to relay the message and get back to me if there were any concerns.

[ChiBree]

Dixies temp dropped all of a sudden, then all the excitement began. If I remember, it went up, then dove. Within hours, that evening, the nesting and panting began.

Poor girl, I mostly remember the pain she was in, she was vocal for the first few, then it seemed to get better.

Watch the first pup or two, when she has it/them, she will frantically clean it. But a bitch can be too rough, Dixie was rolling that first one back and forth like a tennis ball and had to make her stop! before she hrt it. After the 3rd, she was like~Whatever, is it over yet???

Good luck.
Yeah this temperature thing is really confusing me becasue in all the research of done (months of it!) it ALL states that is the clear indication. And I've been taking her temp for 3 weeks and I know her average is 99.9 in the AM and 100 in the PM. So yesterday morning when it dropped to 98.6 and 98.4, I thought here we go! And here we are 30 hours later and nothing.

I will supervise EVERY pup being born. For sure.

[summitview]

I just looked at the photo in your profile, ChiBree. ME OH MY! What a big belly!! Is she a show dog or just a pet?

[MomOf7]

Ivy does the same thing. Her temp will drop then rise then drop then rise.
Sometimes its hard to be sure with the temperature readings. Feel the sides of her stomach. This will be a bit harder for you because you dont know what it feels like but....Feel for her stomach muscles to contract. It may take 5 or more minutes but they will contract as they get closer to whelp. After you have a litter you will understand what muscles to feel for.
My guess is she will more than likely whelp early tomorrow morning or tomorrow evening.
Good luck

[Squidbert]

WOW! That is a big belly! She looks like she's just gonna pop! Can she even walk?? :p What a cutie though.. good luck with the pups! :)

[ChiBree]

WOW! That is a big belly! She looks like she's just gonna pop! Can she even walk?? :p What a cutie though.. good luck with the pups! :)
The picture makes her look a little huger than she is BUT the ultra sound said only 2 pups! this is her 1st whelp.

[ChiBree]

I just looked at the photo in your profile, ChiBree. ME OH MY! What a big belly!! Is she a show dog or just a pet?
She is just a pet, although I've been told by breeders she is a very fine standard of the breed. She's one of my "kids" :)

[ChiBree]

Ivy does the same thing. Her temp will drop then rise then drop then rise.
Sometimes its hard to be sure with the temperature readings. Feel the sides of her stomach. This will be a bit harder for you because you dont know what it feels like but....Feel for her stomach muscles to contract. It may take 5 or more minutes but they will contract as they get closer to whelp. After you have a litter you will understand what muscles to feel for.
My guess is she will more than likely whelp early tomorrow morning or tomorrow evening.
Good luck
I hope your right. She's laying in my lap and the babies are moving all over, I can feel them on my legs. I'll try to feel her muscles, although like you said, I'll have no idea what I'm looking for!
When you say early morning, do you mean in the EARLY AM hours, like 1,2 3,....like I've heard?

[summitview]

She is just a pet, although I've been told by breeders she is a very fine standard of the breed. She's one of my "kids" :)

Are you going to require spay/neuter on all of her pups?

[Serena]

She is just a pet, although I've been told by breeders she is a very fine standard of the breed. She's one of my "kids" :)

Okay I got to ask...If she is just a pet why did you breed her in the first place?

[summitview]

Okay I got to ask...If she is just a pet why did you breed her in the first place?

I was systematically working up to that question. :p Oh well, now we can get two good questions answered at once.

[Serena]

I was systematically working up to that question. :p Oh well, now we can get two good questions answered at once.

I actually have tons of questions to add to the list for the original poster but these two seem like a good place to start.


This post for the original poster concerns me too...

Oh yes! I've read until I'm blue in the face I've been preparing for the whole 62 days.

I don't want to jump to conclusions but

Please tell me you have been preparing for this long before the bitch was even bred and the information was already ingrained in your mind and you were just continuing reading to ease a case of the 'first time breeders jitters'

[ChiBree]

Are you going to require spay/neuter on all of her pups?
IF I decide to sell, they are being sold with limited AKC.

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Wow. I have had a lot of experience with chihuahuas. I can almost guarantee you there are more pups than two...she is crazy huge. How much did she weigh before she got pregnant. The thing with ultrasounds is that those pups are so crammed in there and its really easy for them to hide behind one another. Also when they are that big there is a good chance that some of the puppies are sitting really high (into her rib cage). Im guessing they only put the ultrasound on her belly? In my experiences I have found that the puppies get really active a day before and then they settle down before labour starts. Lets hope she has more than two pups in there or I am afraid they will probably be too big to come out on their own. Again this is what I can tell from the pics though.

[ChiBree]

The ultra sound was very informal...while she was standing, and only on her belly underneath. She weighed 6lbs. The stud was a little bigger but always throws small pups.
VET UPDATE - called the vet and he is only letting her go 12 to 24 hours and then we are to call and he will want to see her. (Which is tomorrow-Friday) So unless something happens tonight......then she goes tomorrow to see him. Today is day 63 from the FIRST tie.

[summitview]

IF I decide to sell, they are being sold with limited AKC.

That doesn't prevent them from being bred by irresponsible people. How will you ensure that they aren't bred?

Was this an accidental litter or planned?

[ChiBree]

I also have it written in my contract, however I also read this doesn't stand up in court. IF I do decide to sell, buyers will be screened and interviewed thourghly. Not just anyone will get a pup from me.

[summitview]

You've skipped the question a couple times.... Why can't we know?

Was the litter planned or accidental?

Why did you breed?

[Serena]

Limited AKC does not stop people from breeding.

The ONLY way to ensure the pups will not be bred is to s/n each and every one before it goes to its new home.

Why did you breed if your dog is "just a pet?"

[JennSLK]

I would like to point out that a huge tummy doesnt mean alot of pups.

Maggie (Jazz;s mom) was HUGE bigger than her aunt and granma when they each had 12.

Maggie droped 6. Just goes to show you



Please answer our questions. we're not trying to be meen

[savethebulliedbreeds]

JennSLK, i understand that just because she has a huge tummy does not automatically mean they are having a whole bunch. But with my experiences with chis either they are having a bunch or a couple big ones. (and that dog is huge). My one female is the same size and weight and when she was that size around the middle (maybe a bit smaller) she had 5.

[savethebulliedbreeds]

And not to answer questions for her but what is wrong with breeding a sound AKC registered female to a sound AKC registered male, even if she does not show her dog. Lots of show dogs get bred with the intention of producing show quality pups and the ones that don't fit go to pet homes. Sometimes ones that do fit still go to pet homes. If she is breeding sound dogs and they are registered I find no reason why this is wrong. Some of those puppies may be very fit to be put in show and some of them may end up in the ring. Just my opinion though.

[summitview]

And not to answer questions for her but what is wrong with breeding a sound AKC registered female to a sound AKC registered male, even if she does not show her dog. Lots of show dogs get bred with the intention of producing show quality pups and the ones that don't fit go to pet homes. Sometimes ones that do fit still go to pet homes. If she is breeding sound dogs and they are registered I find no reason why this is wrong. Some of those puppies may be very fit to be put in show and some of them may end up in the ring. Just my opinion though.

Breeding an unproven, pet dog from an unproven background isn't ethical. There's no reason to produce the puppies. "They'll be so cute," "My family wants some!" and "I want one just like the momma," are not ethical reasons to breed. There are enough pets in the world, one should not breed pets to produce more pets.

[JennSLK]

You should only ever breed, sound TITLED dogs for a purpose. Ie: working or show.

you should NEVER breed strictly for pets.

[Serena]

And not to answer questions for her but what is wrong with breeding a sound AKC registered female to a sound AKC registered male, even if she does not show her dog.

There is nothing to say the dog is sound. Registration means squat unless there is evidence of quality breeding in the lines.

Not all breeders that show are responsible but every responsible breeder shows, proves, and competes with their dog in one sport or another.

In other words every responsible breeder titles their dogs.


Lots of show dogs get bred with the intention of producing show quality pups and the ones that don't fit go to pet homes.

There is a big difference in breeding with the goal of improving the breed and breeding to make pet puppies in an already crowded canine world.

Sometimes ones that do fit still go to pet homes.

There is a difference in a reputable breeder that decides the best suited home for a show potential pup is a pet home and someone who is not active in the canine world breeding their pet.

[Tinaweena]

And here I thought we would get away with a simply helpful, and informative thread.
Come on guys....she's here for help, not to be givin the 3rd degree. Take it elsewhere.

[LabBreeder]

All of these questions, innocent or not, are probably making the OP very uncomfortable. There is no need for the third degree, repeated questioning. The point is: The chi is pregnant and expecting any day now and the OP is looking for support and a few answers...not an interogation.

JMO though. :)

[summitview]

If some of you want to sit by quietly while someone breeds irresponsibly, that's your decision. I've euthanized too many dogs to be able to sit quietly and ignore that fact.

[Saje]

If some of you want to sit by quietly while someone breeds irresponsibly, that's your decision. I've euthanized too many dogs to be able to sit quietly and ignore that fact.

Not everyone has the experience you do. If you want people to learn you might want to think about your approach.

[summitview]

Saje,

In this case, the damage is already done. The bitch is too far along to spay. I've done public education for years online and off. There are times for sugar-coated sweetness and there are times when being blunt is called for. The damage is done here, and IMO this woman needs to strongly reconsider how she is going to place her puppies and what she is going to do with her bitch in the future.

[Mach1girl]

Give me a freakin break.

If she wanted to come on here and ask questions with breeding in the back of her mind, she would have and you all could have made her uncomfortable back then and possibly either 1.made her mad enough to leave or 2. dropped the breeding idea, then fine, but the damage is done. Now she is sitting here with a dog DUE to have puppies, worrying about everything, missing work, etc, and you wanna know WHY she bred her pet!!!TOO LATE FOLKS!

Preach elsewhere!

Also, YES a contract does hold up in a court of law. Before and after each clause (ie:Owner will spay/nueter if proven nt used for show or work) ADD THE PHRASE"BOTH PARTIES AGREE TO THE FOLLOWING" AND "bOTH PARTIES AGREE TO THE ABOVE CLAUSE"

mAKE SURE THAT IS THERE A HUNDRED TIMES. this IS WHAT HOLDS THE CONTRACT UP IN COURT.

[Saje]

Saje,

In this case, the damage is already done. The bitch is too far along to spay. I've done public education for years online and off. There are times for sugar-coated sweetness and there are times when being blunt is called for. The damage is done here, and IMO this woman needs to strongly reconsider how she is going to place her puppies and what she is going to do with her bitch in the future.

In your opinion. I happen to agree but you still need to reconsider your approach. All you do is attack and drill members in the breeding forum. We want people to stick around so we can help them and hopefully they will learn more about ethical breeding. You aren't going to help anyone or their dogs if you chase them away.

[JennSLK]

In this case, the damage is already done.

EXACTLY!!!

It's to late to convince her to spay and not breed. She's here for our help because she wants it to go smoothly.

Your scaring her off when she wants help so her bitch doesnt die from complications and here you are giving her the 3rd degree.

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Needless to say she bred her dog...and now wants help. And I for one along with many other people in this forum are wanting to help her. Even if you are mad about her breeding her dog summitview at least she is asking for help. There are a ton of people out there that breed their dogs for money and don't give a crap where they go. She does. She's a hell of a lot better than a lot of other breeders I have seen. And like I said at the beginning of this post....ALL BREEDERS...EVEN REPUTABLE ONES STARTED SOMEWHERE.

[Serena]

I know on this forum and numerous others it is not uncommon for questions on why someone chose to breed to arise especially after the words "I bred my pet" are posted...

What makes this case different?

Does the fact that the Chi is expecting to pop any second now somehow make the breeding excusable or justifiable?

The breeding may be done and it is defiantely to too late to talk spay/neuter but that does not mean the ethics in breeding need to be or should be brushed aside.

In regards to the OP's fear of something happening to her dog.

It is too late to be asking for advice on what to expect and having questions about what is happening.

I can certainly understand her being nervous and just wanting someone to "talk" to help with the feelings and looking for a supportive ear...

But coming for a last minute education crash course in whelping is a whole nother story.

This is knowledge she should already have and if she was not clear on something it should have been discussed long before this moment arose.

[Bailey+Ralph]

ChiBree............Your still here right?
How is she doing? :)

[summitview]

ALL BREEDERS...EVEN REPUTABLE ONES STARTED SOMEWHERE.

You don't start by breeding right off the bat. You get mentors, you learn. You wait to purchase dogs. You don't start by breeding, crossing your fingers, and learning by trial and error.

[Bailey+Ralph]

But coming for a last minute education crash course in whelping is a whole nother story.

This is knowledge she should already have and if she was not clear on something it should have been discussed long before this moment arose.

Can i just ask something?
Not only to you Serena but this is aimed at most of the woman here.

I assume that many of us are Mothers right?

Ok, i studied Child Development at School, i then read every book and watched every video i could find when me and Hubby decided to try for a baby.

I **** well know that when it came to "That time" i was petrified and started asking anyone and everyone, everything that i already knew!

See what i am saying?

This is not a "Crash Course"! She is worried and just wants reassurance thats all :)

[Mach1girl]

I know on this forum and numerous others it is not uncommon for questions on why someone chose to breed to arise especially after the words "I bred my pet" are posted...

What makes this case different?

Does the fact that the Chi is expecting to pop any second now somehow make the breeding excusable or justifiable?

The breeding may be done and it is defiantely to too late to talk spay/neuter but that does not mean the ethics in breeding need to be or should be brushed aside.

In regards to the OP's fear of something happening to her dog.

It is too late to be asking for advice on what to expect and having questions about what is happening.

I can certainly understand her being nervous and just wanting someone to "talk" to help with the feelings and looking for a supportive ear...

But coming for a last minute education crash course in whelping is a whole nother story.

This is knowledge she should already have and if she was not clear on something it should have been discussed long before this moment arose.
There is a difference.....between questions arising, and being badgered by "Why are you ignoring my questions??"

Yes, the damage is done, and at this moment, she needs help and assistance and knowledge. After the pups, send her a pm asking if she realizes this or that......That is how we stay on topic for one, and arguments get avoided if done this way.

I too,(Im sure every1 remembers) came here the same exact way. I was badgered as well, but this was before whelping. I learned my lesson.

MAYBE a litter happens to some people for a reason! Ever think of that people??I too wanted to be a breeder, right from the beginning years ago, but the one litter changed my mind. With alittle guidance and understanding, everything turned out just fine.

We dont ask for suger coat anything, just help when we need it, and if you are against help because you are against the reason, then shut up!(not you personally-all YOU's are meant towrds the general public!!!)

Anyway, I wanna see some puppy pics!

[Serena]

Can i just ask something?
Not only to you Serena but this is aimed at most of the woman here.

I assume that many of us are Mothers right?

Ok, i studied Child Development at School, i then read every book and watched every video i could find when me and Hubby decided to try for a baby.

I **** well know that when it came to "That time" i was petrified and started asking anyone and everyone, everything that i already knew!

See what i am saying?

This is not a "Crash Course"! She is worried and just wants reassurance thats all :)

There is a big difference in seeking reassurance and seeking answers. :)

Many things in the OP's post throw up huge red flags that say she did not take the time to properly learn and is now scramling with last minute information that she is seeking verification on.

Two comments in this thread stand out in my mind.

The one where the OP said she had been preparing for the whole 62 days, that really concerns me because there should have been much more planning and research than that.

The post where the OP said their vet told them to wait for four hours of hard labor before bringing the bitch in...that is a huge red flag. Knowing to bring a struggling bitch in after an hour max is basic knowledge. If the OP took time to properly research breeding right then and there she should have been seeking a new vet.

[Bailey+Ralph]

There is a big difference in seeking reassurance and seeking answers. :)

Many things in the OP's post throw up huge red flags that say she did not take the time to properly learn and is now scramling with last minute information that she is seeking verification on.

Two comments in this thread stand out in my mind.

The one where the OP said she had been preparing for the whole 62 days, that really concerns me because there should have been much more planning and research than that.

The post where the OP said their vet told them to wait for four hours of hard labor before bringing the bitch in...that is a huge red flag. Knowing to bring a struggling bitch in after an hour max is basic knowledge. If the OP took time to properly research breeding right then and there she should have been seeking a new vet.

I see what your saying Serena, but she also needs reassurance and i haven't seen her post in quite a while.
She is being scared away and her and that Chi need all the help and advice they can get right now :)

[Angel Chicken]

Serena and Summit,

Looks, there is no reason for you to harp this poor girl over a litter of puppies. She is looking for help, not looking to be griped at and harped to by the breeding police.

It looks like ya'll have run her off. Sheesh... be nice, would you?

[Bailey+Ralph]

I see what your saying Serena, but she also needs reassurance and i haven't seen her post in quite a while.
She is being scared away and her and that Chi need all the help and advice they can get right now :)

I also just wanted to add to this..........Would you rather see those puppies dead b/c of your beliefs in the way breeding should be done?
I mean if she doesn't come back then who knows??

[summitview]

There are worse things than death. Being bred with health problems and sold into a home that wasn't properly screened where they will be bred to death themselves is one of them. Not saying this is going to happen to these individual puppies, but it's always a possibility when someone isn't properly educated and experienced.

[Bailey+Ralph]

There are worse things than death. Being bred with health problems and sold into a home that wasn't properly screened where they will be bred to death themselves is one of them. Not saying this is going to happen to these individual puppies, but it's always a possibility when someone isn't properly educated and experienced.

Yes but these puppies are on thier way into this world now.
Chibree has said that she has done everything right when it comes to Whelping.
The only problem (for some) is that she is breeding from a "Pet".
So now that these particular puppies are on thier way, is it not best to try and help the OP instead of scaring her away?
Then after the anxiety of her dog in Labor, anyone with issues about how she Bred could use the PM to discuss it with her.
As it is she hasn't posted in quite some time........Either the pups are being delivered now..........or she has been scared away from somewhere that she came to for help and support.
I for one hope that it is b/c the puppies are being delivered.

[RedyreRottweilers]

I also just wanted to add to this..........Would you rather see those puppies dead b/c of your beliefs in the way breeding should be done?
I mean if she doesn't come back then who knows??

I have been staying off this, but I will say this:

DEATH is a risk with ANY BREEDING.

If people don't understand this beforehand, they often do afterwards.

There is ALWAYS the risk of death of the bitch, particularly in toy bitches, and there is always the risk of the death of one, or more, or all of the puppies.

If the Grim Reaper visits ChiBree at the time of the whelping of her bitch (*od forbid), it is not the fault of any poster on this forum.

It is a fact of life that death is a part of breeding animals of any sort.

[Bailey+Ralph]

I have been staying off this, but I will say this:

DEATH is a risk with ANY BREEDING.

If people don't understand this beforehand, they often do afterwards.

There is ALWAYS the risk of death of the bitch, particularly in toy bitches, and there is always the risk of the death of one, or more, or all of the puppies.

If the Grim Reaper visits ChiBree at the time of the whelping of her bitch (*od forbid), it is not the fault of any poster on this forum.

It is a fact of life that death is a part of breeding animals of any sort.

Red i wasn't saying that it would be anyones fault.
What i was saying is that instead of everyone jumping on her back, they could be helping her to save her Bitch and the puppies should things not seem right with her posts.
Now she isn't posting, no-one can help or advise her if you see something that doesn't seem right.

[Serena]

Bailey would I want something to happen to the dog or pups? Of course not but if something were to happen to them (and I honestly hope it does not) I would not feel a twinge of guilt or remorse for not giving advice.

Mach girl, the only question ignored was why she bred her pet. She was fine with telling everyone she bred her pet and was all smiles when she didn't think there was anything wrong with it, the second it was questioned from an ethical standpoint she avoided the subject.

Angel Chicken, maybe for you ethics in breeding can be brushed aside for some of us it is not that simple.

[Bailey+Ralph]

I give up here.
The OP came here looking for advice and is now probably wishing she hadn't.

[Mach1girl]

Mach girl, the only question ignored was why she bred her pet. She was fine with telling everyone she bred her pet and was all smiles when she didn't think there was anything wrong with it, the second it was questioned from an ethical standpoint she avoided the subject.

.Yes, she did, she said she wants to be a breeder, didnt she??Or am I mistaken??She stated everyone has got to start somewhere.

Besides, that is irrelevant now anyway, she doesnt have to answer, maybe she doesnt want us to know what happened.

[ChiBree]

Back again - not avoiding any questions, not at all. This was a PLANNED breeding. MY dogs do not run around unsupervised. Why this thread has went this way is beyond me? I feel its better I admit I'm new and ask questions rather than think I know it all and mess something up.

[ChiBree]

ChiBree............Your still here right?
How is she doing? :)
I'm here! I took a nap (tired from all the watching over her) She's fine and no pups yet!

[Squidbert]

I think you've done well.. and you had newbie jitters and needed reminders.. I know my mind goes blank when I'n anxious or flustered. :)
So whats the word? Any babies yet?

[Bailey+Ralph]

Glad to know that your still here and all is well :)

[Citrus007]

I just came, hows it going with them? I'm excited though I cant offer any advice because I have never bred a dog before..

[Mach1girl]

threads like this have a tendancy to get out of hand.


Just keep asking, we are here, been in your shoes, just 20 weeks ago, Want me to find the thread???It is informative.Anyone feel like a search?

[Sheka]

CONGRATS CHIBREE!! I hope and pray evreything goes well ,i dont know much about breeding but if u dont take and post ATLEAST a million pics of those pups, im gonna have to hurt u Lol JK JK JK! but still, POST PICS :) when u have the time of course. and give the mommy and big kiss from me

[ChiBree]

I think you've done well.. and you had newbie jitters and needed reminders.. I know my mind goes blank when I'n anxious or flustered. :)
So whats the word? Any babies yet?
No babies. I posted a couple hours ago that if nothing happens tonight we go to the Vet tomorrow. He'll decide at the point if he's going to take them. She's sleeping and the babies are stillwiggling all around! :)

[savethebulliedbreeds]

This thread is sickening. Chibree came here for help and she is getting bashed.

Summitview, she does have mentors. She is working with 3 different breeders and u saying that the pups could have health problems or go to bad homes is a risk ANY breeder takes. Sometimes the most screened applicants can fool you.

Serena, she IS NOT scrambling for last minute answers. She wants some reassurance. I know how she feels and trust me sometimes getting other peoples point of views other than the people you have been talking to throughout the pregnancy is very reassuring. As for your comments about the vet saying to wait 4 hours, lots of people trust their vets to the fullest, and feel no need to go to a forum to ask "how long should I wait until I take my dog into the vet." I understand her vet was wrong but its not her fault he gave her bad information. And especially with people that don't have as much knowledge as some of the people have on the forum, how is she supposed to know any different. If I was new and my vet told me that I would see no need to search about it on the net. She now knows that her vet is maybe not as good as she thought he was. Also, why she bred her dog is none of your business.

To the both of you (serena & summitview), the title of her post wasn't "serena and summitview, is me breeding my dog ethical in your views?" So drop it.

She originally started this post because she was confused about the temperature thing. She HAS done her research!!! Quit running her down and quit asking her questions that are none of your business! She came here to ask the questions not have you questioning her.

By the way Chibree. You have done good with working with breeders and working closely with a vet. That is exactly how it should be done. I can hardly wait until those pups are born and for sure you have to post a ton of pics.

Please don't let a few nosies keep you from asking questions. The rest of us will be here to answer them for you.

[Mach1girl]

This thread is sickening. Chibree came here for help and she is getting bashed.

Summitview, she does have mentors. She is working with 3 different breeders and u saying that the pups could have health problems or go to bad homes is a risk ANY breeder takes. Sometimes the most screened applicants can fool you.

Serena, she IS NOT scrambling for last minute answers. She wants some reassurance. I know how she feels and trust me sometimes getting other peoples point of views other than the people you have been talking to throughout the pregnancy is very reassuring. As for your comments about the vet saying to wait 4 hours, lots of people trust their vets to the fullest, and feel no need to go to a forum to ask "how long should I wait until I take my dog into the vet." I understand her vet was wrong but its not her fault he gave her bad information. And especially with people that don't have as much knowledge as some of the people have on the forum, how is she supposed to know any different. If I was new and my vet told me that I would see no need to search about it on the net. She now knows that her vet is maybe not as good as she thought he was. Also, why she bred her dog is none of your business.

To the both of you (serena & summitview), the title of her post wasn't "serena and summitview, is me breeding my dog ethical in your views?" So drop it.

She originally started this post because she was confused about the temperature thing. She HAS done her research!!! Quit running her down and quit asking her questions that are none of your business! She came here to ask the questions not have you questioning her.

By the way Chibree. You have done good with working with breeders and working closely with a vet. That is exactly how it should be done. I can hardly wait until those pups are born and for sure you have to post a ton of pics.

Please don't let a few nosies keep you from asking questions. The rest of us will be here to answer them for you.

And then there was light!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen!

[summitview]

For the record, irresponsible breeding is EVERYONE'S business, we all have to deal with the outcome and the overpopulation problem. You might not care, but plenty of us know better and do care.

[Citrus007]

*waits* *starts chant* Puppies, Puppies!

[savethebulliedbreeds]

I do care about irresponsible breeding. But she is not being irresponsible. She bred two sound AKC registered chihuahuas, is working closely with 3 breeders and a vet, she is writing up contracts and will be screening the applicants. Other than the fact that she does not show her dog, how is this any different than responsible breeders?

[Mach1girl]

She has not proven to be irresponsible.

She has done her homework, and just had questions regarding the temp

It is called RE ASSURANCE (say it with me) everyone needs it from time to time, and human nature should shine through and assist a helping hand. Much better then turning into a cur, and lashing out making one person feel responsible for societys problems.

Anywa, you get the picture.

Good will come from this.

[summitview]

The fact that she's breeding unproven pet dogs in and of itself is unethical.

Plus, I didn't see where she said that her breeding stock was CERF and OFA certified in any respect.

We also don't know the caliber of the breeders that are mentoring her.

[ChiBree]

6:18 PM - Another stupid question??? She has a think sticky discharge coming out, not a big glob but its there. Is this her muscus plug?

[savethebulliedbreeds]

No, we don't know the calibur of the breeders and that again is none of our business. Also explain what you mean by "unproven"? Also I don't think she needs to tell us if her stock is OFA or CERF certified to ask a question about temp. I know I shouldn't have asked how she is irresponsible (which by the way SHE IS NOT). I know exactly where this is going to go now.

[Dani]

If this thread had been about whether she (Chibree) should breed her dog or not, it would be fine if you told her she shouldn't, and gave her reasons why.

But that's not what Chibree is asking. Her dog is pregnant. You can't change that. She wants a bit of advice, to make sure things go as smoothly as possible.

If anyone wishes to, pm her your thoughts on the fact that she bred her Chihuahua. This thread is to help her with the pregnancy.

In saying that, I don't actually have any experience in this area, lol. All I can offer is, good luck, and keep an eye on your dog. It seems like she's ready to give birth any minute!

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Yay. Expect puppies. Mucus plugs don't necesarily come out all at once. What color is it? And does it smell?

[JennSLK]

Summit you need to take a step back and breath and think about what you are saying

[LabBreeder]

nvm ya'll saw it...

[summitview]

"Unproven" - The dog is not proven to be of breeding quality. Pets are not breeding quality. They are PETS. Breeding quality is a dog from a proven background that has been proven in the conformation ring to be a good specimen of the breed and/or proven in a working venue to prove the same.

[Mach1girl]

My dogs were unhealth tested as well. My dogs were never proven either. Of course, my situation was totally different but I chose not to spay/abort, so I am just as guilty.

But you know what??What says that a future champion cannot come out of this litter?? My litter has 2 going to show for conformation, and 2 for weight pull. Thats a hell of a record for an unethicla breeding!

The 2 for show look pretty dang good, and as they continue to grow, are looking better, in every way.

Health testing??Sure, something that should have been done. When I discovered my dog was prego, I hadnt had it done on her, I hooked up with a vet and we performed a line research, over 6 generations, never found a single hip dysplasia case in it, or anything besides one or two over bites and a bad pastern.

It may have been an unethicle breeding in your eyes, and yes some other stuff should have been done first, but it is done, and I think good will come ot of it.

Not everybody is perfect, AND I am willing to bet even the greatest of breeders, professional breeders, didnt complete every aspect THE FIRST TIME. I bet they did later on in future breedings.

[Mach1girl]

NO, It shouldnt smell at all!

[Mach1girl]

What color is it

[summitview]

What says that a future champion cannot come out of this litter??

Even if it does, if the pedigree behind it is unproven and untested - the dog should be spayed/neutered regardless of gaining a CH title.

[Mach1girl]

Duh, I saw sticky and thought it said stinky, my badd!!!Whew

Dixies was thick, really, looked like a jelly fish, white at first, then pink.

[Dani]

6:18 PM - Another stupid question??? She has a think sticky discharge coming out, not a big glob but its there. Is this her muscus plug?

I'm pretty sure it's the mucus plug, from the general dog books I have read lol. Be prepared!

[Mach1girl]

Even if it does, if the pedigree behind it is unproven and untested - the dog should be spayed/neutered regardless of gaining a CH title.
NOBODY cares about what is behind it if it becomes a champion, becoming a champion will make the pedigree lookk better.

[JennSLK]

Even if it does, if the pedigree behind it is unproven and untested - the dog should be spayed/neutered regardless of gaining a CH title


So Jazz has two non Ch in her pedigree. I guess that means she should have never been born.

[Mach1girl]

If it is the mucus plug, you will prolly be up all night. Lay down w/ her now and nap, make sure with her, when she starts nesting and panting, get your butt up, because it is show time!!! Good luck through out the night.

[Mach1girl]

Dixie has a ton of CH and a few GCH, man, what a loser!

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Completely agreed Mach1girl!! I am very sick of people like summit thinking that EVERY "purebred" dog in the world MUST compete! Its a crock...for all you know this dog could be perfect in every way according to standards, she even said she has had breeders tell her it is sound. You don't know that those breeders don't compete and don't know what they are talking about. And what you are saying is because it doesn't have a fricking piece of paper from a judge, that she is unethical for breeding it and that dog is not breedable, and won't produce champion pups and you don't have a clue you are just speculating to make her look bad! Give me a break!

[Bailey+Ralph]

Ok positive vibes being sent now :)

I will be going to bed shortly so good luck to you and your chi :D
I am hoping that when i get up in the morning there will be a new thread all about the puppies :)

[Citrus007]

I'm excited. I feel like I'm there with all these updates.

[Squidbert]

YAY! Puppies soon! PUPPIES!! :D

Just a side note.. I'm a little confused.. are people not supposed to breed dogs for pets? Just for show? Aren't dogs pets? Are people only 'supposed' to have pure bred dogs if they show them? What's so bad about breeding a dog to produce pets if someone wants that breed as a pet?
Sure there are lots of homeless dogs out there and dogs in shelters, but shelter dogs aren't for everyone. Some people want a specific breed, know the lines of the dog, etc.. things they can't get from a rescue dog.
In a perfect world maybe purebred dogs would only be for show and all the rescue dogs would go as pets and overpopulation of dogs would no longer be an issue. But this is far from a perfect world.. and this person is breeding responsibly in her opinion. To her it seems morally acceptable to breed her dog for pets. And that's her choice. When you people say it's morally wrong to breed a dog for pets, that's YOUR morals and opinions, and you're certainly entitled to them, however you can't always expect others to conform to this by attacking people.
Just my 2 cents.. :)

[Mach1girl]

me too, Im eating salsa/cheese and chips, sipping a soda, kicking back, like a movie going to start.

Awwwwwwwwwww, I cant wait.

[summitview]

I am very sick of people like summit thinking that EVERY "purebred" dog in the world MUST compete!

Not every purebred dog, no. But having a nice pet does not tell you whether the dog is breeding quality. If someone wants more pets, they can go to rescue or a responsible show/work breeder. Breeding unproven (often untested) pets to produce more pets is nothing to be proud of. There's no ethical reason for it.

[JennSLK]

Because you need to do health testing before you breed.

People who breed for show aways have pups that arent "good enough" to show. Buy pets from them

[Mach1girl]

Maybe it is a conspiracy..............

See, if these kind of "professional breeders" rid the world of people who breed untitled,unhealth tested, un proven, un anything dogs, then they can be the puppy peddlars and rake in all the dough!!!

Seriously, that what it seems like sometimes.

I mean sure, you arent gonna breed your dog with mange, hip disp, MR, ataxia, CP, or an obvious genetic fault or disease, but if you have 2 prime examples of great dogs, never exhibited any major problems, whatever.


ALSO, it is a chi, not a pitbull!

[savethebulliedbreeds]

But there is an ethical reason for breeding dog to throw in the ring? I dont think so! How many of those puppies that are are born to show end up not conforming? LOTS...A lot more than ever end up competing!!!! And you are going to tell me that breeding for the ring is ethical and breeding for pets is not? Same difference!

[Citrus007]

People this arguing obviously isn't working so can we drop you. Y'all know nothing for sure about this person and what she did to be prepared. To me it seems like she did some research so all is well, its nice to have someone to talk to when you are going through something so wonderful yet crazy as this.

This is fun, I always wanted to raise puppies. I'm with you Mach, time to pull out the popcorn. I just want some pictures of the babes.

[summitview]

What's so bad about breeding a dog to produce pets if someone wants that breed as a pet? ..... and this person is breeding responsibly in her opinion.

Every breeder is responsible in their own mind. And yes, I've met plenty of BYB who really do care about their dogs and think they're doing the right thing, when in reality they are producing mediocre dogs with health problems and placing them in poorly screened homes.

What's so bad about breeding pets just to produce pets? Go work at a shelter for even a week, and you'll see.

Also read National Parent Club Codes of Ethics. Breeding unproven pets is not breeding to improve the breed.

I understand that shelter dogs are not for everyone. If someone wants a pet with a known background, then they can go to responsible people who breed their dogs for work and/or show.

[Mach1girl]

.

People who breed for show aways have pups that arent "good enough" to show. Buy pets from them
So, you are saying, ETHICLE breeders maybe get what??One good show dog from a PROVEN breeding???So, that still makes them guilty of the fact..........if a bitch has 8 pups, 7 are PETS, what is the difference?

[Squidbert]

me too, Im eating salsa/cheese and chips, sipping a soda, kicking back, like a movie going to start.

Hah! Me too! It's so exciting.. maybe I'll breed a litter sometime.. :p

Don't worry.. just kidding about the breeding.. DEEP BREATHS NOW... :)

[Bailey+Ralph]

Because you need to do health testing before you breed.

People who breed for show aways have pups that arent "good enough" to show. Buy pets from them

But then if the Sire and Dam are of "Show" quality, they shouldn't produce pups that aren't worthy of "Showing", so it leads us right back to the fact that the 2 best quality dogs can produce a bad litter!!

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Wait that last post made it sound like I was against breeding altogether, for show or not. Im not against either. I was just trying to get my point across.

[Squidbert]

But there is an ethical reason for breeding dog to throw in the ring? I dont think so! How many of those puppies that are are born to show end up not conforming? LOTS...A lot more than ever end up competing!!!! And you are going to tell me that breeding for the ring is ethical and breeding for pets is not? Same difference!

AMEN SISTAH!! ....or brotha.. :D

[Citrus007]

Ahh everyone is ruining the fun, so much for being caught up in the moment...

[summitview]

And you are going to tell me that breeding for the ring is ethical and breeding for pets is not? Same difference!

I personally believe the most responsible breeders have dual-purpose dogs (if their dogs are a breed bred with a purpose - herding, hunting, racing, etc.). But in many breeds, there is no purpose or work for them (I do not consider agility or obedience "work"). So the only real way to judge any sort of breeding quality is the conformation ring.

And no, it is not "same difference." Rather large difference, actually.

Also, I can't think of a single responsible breeder who would sell an intact puppy to someone who intended to breed pets. It's not what responsible breeding is about. So you know where the "pet breeding" folks get their stock - from other pet breeders who most likely don't prove or test.

[Bailey+Ralph]

Puppies!!! Puppies!!! :D

*Drum roll*.............................

[Squidbert]

Ba DUM BUM......!? :)

[Mach1girl]

Im done arguing, I have made my point. Im off for awhile. Im gonna go shower, diddle around with the pups, it is Daiy and me time on the carpet now, where she can actually get grip to walk.

So, Ill see ya later, Ill check in to see if mommas is coming along ok.

G'luck!

[Citrus007]

I personally believe the most responsible breeders have dual-purpose dogs (if their dogs are a breed bred with a purpose - herding, hunting, racing, etc.). But in many breeds, there is no purpose or work for them (I do not consider agility or obedience "work"). So the only real way to judge any sort of breeding quality is the conformation ring.

And no, it is not "same difference." Rather large difference, actually.

Also, I can't think of a single responsible breeder who would sell an intact puppy to someone who intended to breed pets. It's not what responsible breeding is about. So you know where the "pet breeding" folks get their stock - from other pet breeders who most likely don't prove or test.

You know almos tall dogs bred for racing have only that purpose- racing. They have no dual purpose like you said. Greyhounds have very reputable parent but they are killed after only a few years. Seems to me you should be trying to stop the breeding of dogs for race purposes like that instead of stopping stuff like this which at least these puppies are going to have a happy life. Yes a happy life. As I have said before and many other people have said also, you know nothing at all about this person. You dont know if they did a health check or not, you dont know how thoroughly they are going to check the adoptee applicants, Stop expecting that you do. How come you brush aside this? Do you not want to be wrong, trust me, better to admit to being wrong now then going even further down hill. Yes there may be things wrong with this but too late. This litter has happened but the next one hasn't so take it easy and explain kindly through a PM. And get some answers from her about health checks and such before assuming she didn't do it.

All this waiting for these puppies is tiring. I want them now! I sound like a five year old. Chis are cute

[savethebulliedbreeds]

You don't know that she is not going to spay or neuter these puppies. Quit speculating. So you are saying that dog bred to be lap dogs are a bad thing? And like I said before just because the dog doesnt have that stupid piece of paper saying that it is "good enough to breed" that a dog is automatically non conforming or unhealthy. Not only that but how many dogs compete and don't do so well? They do good but not as good as other dogs. All those dogs end up getting bred because they earned a CH. in front of their name...for all anyone know it could have taken that one way longer to achieve that then his brother. But according to you they can both be bred because of a CH. Even though one is a little inferior.

[Mach1girl]

So the only real way to judge any sort of breeding quality is the conformation ring.

Before I go I noticed this....what a load of crap!

So, you are telling me, because I have a dog who is about 15 lbs larger then standard, and she gets beat in the conformation ring due to a game dog standard dog is competing, she is not show worthy??Even though she is correct to the "T"??

Not all breeds conform 100% to standard as they once did, since purposes have changed.

What if my dog totally accels at weight pull, and becomes a record holder, wins ever event, he is not worthy of breeding because he has a slight sway back??Or an overbite???

I understand that a champion is a speciman of the perfect dog. But no breed has a perfect speciman, and to many, many people, other quality matters, such as drive, stregnth, build, determination, etc.

There IS more to a show dog then conformation.

And to breed for a purpose, from WP to obedience, to agility is a purpose.

Funny, the ones I ever hear knocking agility or obedience are the ones whose dogs cannot handle that task in competition!

[Mach1girl]

see ya/......................

[summitview]

savethebulliedbreeds,

You sure do like to twist words. There are show puppymills as well. A CH alone does not make a dog breeding quality. However, it is part of the equation. There are many other factors. There are plenty of CH dogs that should not be bred.

This thread has been reduced to folks grasping at straws on a topic they have no experience in. Yeesh!

[Citrus007]

I always wanted to try agility and obediance, Of course never having had a dog, that makes it hard...

[Citrus007]

This thread has been reduced to folks grasping at straws on a topic they have no experience in. Yeesh!
Actually this thread has been reduced by you, who changed the topic of it thereby reducing it. Don't you remember, this was about help.

I'm not saying this person was right to breed, Im not saying this person was wrong. The fact is we don't know.

[Bailey+Ralph]

I always wanted to try agility and obediance, Of course never having had a dog, that makes it hard...

OMG..........You don't have a dog?? :D :p

[summitview]

Mach1,

I've titled dogs in obedience and instructed obedience, agility and conformation handling for years. I still do not feel that breeding solely for agility is ethical. Agility is a performance event that any mutt can do, it is not a sport that proves breeding worth (examples of those sports are Sch, racing, hunting, earthdog, etc).

I had racing sled dogs for years as well. I never stepped foot in the conformation ring with them, yet I had a few breeding quality dogs.

I never said that the conformation ring was the end-all of dog breeding. It does in fact do more harm than good for some working breeds (Siberians, GSD and Labs just to name a few).

However, for purely companion breeds, there really is no other way to prove.

[Citrus007]

No.. sad huh? I've wanted one so bad all my life but I have never been allowed until finally this summer I'm probably going to get my first. I am sooo excited.

[Bailey+Ralph]

This thread has been reduced to folks grasping at straws on a topic they have no experience in. Yeesh!

If i remember rightly, quite a few of us asked you to take your opinions on the OP breeding her dog to PM.
YOU chose to ignore this, which has resulted in a debate!!

[summitview]

My point isn't the direction of the thread, but the lack of experience and knowledge in some of the comments.

[Bailey+Ralph]

My point isn't the direction of the thread, but the lack of experience and knowledge in some of the comments.

My point is that there was no need for this thread to come to people grasping at straws (as you put it) b/c it should never have veered in this direction in the 1st place.

[Citrus007]

Everyone left, we scared them off. Oops. I hope the pups aare ok. Dum de Dum... This waiting is hard.

[JFrick]

Gotta throw my 2 cents in.....

I don't believe that breeding dogs for show is right. All this talk about proper breeding for the perfect dog to show is no more than people being greedy trying to gain a title saying they have the best looking dog, or whatever competition they enter......I'm not saying that showing or competing dogs is wrong, I'm saying that only breeding dogs to obtain "show quality" dogs is wrong. These are the people that spend thousands of dollars so they can get a dog that gets them attention and recognition instead of adopting a homeless dog from a shelter. To these people, the shelter dogs are not good enough for them. The dogs don't know, they don't care about any titles, it's the people.

I hope everything with the delivery goes well.....and I'm now waiting for my bashing. :D

[Bailey+Ralph]

Everyone left, we scared them off. Oops. I hope the pups aare ok. Dum de Dum... This waiting is hard.

You think it's hard for you?
I am going to bed in a minute (just past midnight here) and then i am busy in the morning.................So i won't hear any more until tomorrow afternoon :(

[Citrus007]

Lets make bets on the number and sex of the pups. I think there will be three, two girls, one boy.

[Squidbert]

My point isn't the direction of the thread, but the lack of experience and knowledge in some of the comments.
You know what? Not everyone knows everything there is to know about anything. They take what they know about a specific issue and form an OPINION on it. What you're stating is an opinion.. not fact! I'm sure many people think it's unethical to breed dogs just for the purpose of prancing them about in a ring to see if they measure up to a certain standard. The point it IT'S AN OPINION!

[tessa_s212]

*sigh*

I hope the OP gets the advice she needs.

People.. take it to another thread. Make your own little debate thread. Let this thread to help answer this person's questions.

[Citrus007]

You think it's hard for you?
I am going to bed in a minute (just past midnight here) and then i am busy in the morning.................So i won't hear any more until tomorrow afternoon :(

Aww, Im sorry, its only 4:10 pm here. I ought not even to be on the computer, I have been on it too much but chaz is addicting.

[Squidbert]

Lets make bets on the number and sex of the pups. I think there will be three, two girls, one boy.

Ooooh.. fun! Hmmm. lets see... I'll guess 3 as well.. ALL boys! :D

[Citrus007]

Umm stupid question but what does OP mean?

[Bailey+Ralph]

I say one of each :D

[JFrick]

Umm stupid question but what does OP mean?

Haha, I was wondering the same thing, just didn't ask..I know it's a reference to the Chi, the person that started the thread..

Maybe, Opening Person?

[puppyluv2004]

OP means original poster. :)

[tessa_s212]

OP-original poster

[Squidbert]

I have been on it too much but chaz is addicting.

I hear ya there! Man.. I"ve been the same the last couple days.. as soon as I leave the computer I think.. "I wonder if anyone replied to my post" or " I wonder what else is new on there.." :p

[Citrus007]

Yay thanks, I feel better now.

[Citrus007]

I hear ya there! Man.. I"ve been the same the last couple days.. as soon as I leave the computer I think.. "I wonder if anyone replied to my post" or " I wonder what else is new on there.." :p
Haha yep, and then I feel bad for being so lazy so I go do something else but there isnt anything else to do so I come back

[Squidbert]

YaY! at least we're addicts together! Now.. where are those puppers!! :)

[Citrus007]

In da mommy's tummy.

[Squidbert]

Heh.. well they better hurry up and come out! I said so!! :p

[Saje]

ChiBree, I'm locking this thread because anyone who really wants to know how your bitch is doing or offer constructive advice will have to meander through a lot of pointless posts. Do keep us up to date and start a new thread which hopefully people will respect.