but wait! only pit bulls attack!

[elegy]

certainly not labs! (http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060623/News01/606230327/-1/NEWS01/CAT=News01)

labs are everybody's favorite family dog (http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060613/NEWS/606130320)

not poodle mixes, either. (http://www.madison.com/tct/news/index.php?ntid=88014&ntpid=6)

or springers (http://www.thisisguernsey.com/code/showarchive.pl?ArticleID=000759&year=2006&category=news)

definitely *not* golden retrievers (http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5019915&nav=ZolHbyvj)

not another golden (http://nbc15.madison.com/news/headlines/3039446.html)

wait, i thought only pit bulls killed! (http://winnipegsun.com/News/Manitoba/2006/06/17/1637954-sun.html)

must have been a really big pit bull in a fluffy dog suit (http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=5002263&nav=3HvE)

dogs bite. it happens. it sucks.

[LabBreeder]

Ok, what's the point of this? We all know that dogs of any breed (or mix) can bite. Are you so ticked off that you feel the need to bring in other breeds that haven't been as exposed as pits have? No, pits are the only one's that bite, but they are the one's that get exposure because of what they were originally bred for and how some current breeders and owners treat/raise them. How many people buy a poodle, golden or lab and train it to be a vicious guard dog? Not to many I'm willing to bet. But people do buy pits, german shepherds and dobermans to do this and then don't train them correctly and the dogs end up attacking someone/something.

Like you said, dogs bite. I would like to know why you want to make other breeds out to be "bad" because of "bad owners/breeders". Pit bulls have had a bad rap, but why would you want another breed to go through the same thing. You didn't like it; it's unfair; places are banning pits, etc. Why would you want another breed, or multiple breeds, to go through the same thing?

[pup-man]

WOW! You mean to tell me other breeds attack other than Pit's? I didn't know that.

[Aussie Red]

Yes were well aware of the fact that our dogs can and do bite but I have yet to see a yard raided where they find 20 poodles on chains with tread mills and the like. It isn't the dog it is what people get them for. There are so many responsible Pitbull owners out there who truly got the dog for the love of the breed and have no agression problems because they wouldn't dream of allowing their beloved pet to fight and be hurt. When asking a question about why do they get that rap then ask yourself who owns them and why ? Very seldom do you hear stories of the dedicated owner because unfortunantly there are not enough to go around. I have met many here and love to see it because I to think pit bulls are beautiful animals and I know they can be the sweetest dogs. I know that they are big slobber you to death babies if they are treated right.

[elegy]

because i'm tired and i'm frustrated and i'm sick to death of threads like "no wonder pit bulls look bad" and on and on and on. i'm sick of the comments like "90% of pit bull owners are irresponsible". i'm sick to death of bsl. i'm sick of people hating my dogs. i'm sick of how freaking STUPID people can be. i'm sick of the comments about how we only hear about pit bull attacks.

that's why.

because i love my dogs so much it makes me cry sometimes and i want them to have the same chances in life that all the other non-discriminated against breeds have. i want people to understand that it's not just my dogs with their big heads.

because i don't want to have to be afraid that somebody's going to pass a law that's going to get my dogs banned or killed. because i want to be able to take my happy wagging dogs out in public without people giving me dirty looks and crossing the street.

because i can't understand how in a forum dedicated to people who love dogs, there can be people saying the things they do about pit bulls.

because i love this breed more than anything else on earth. because they are the most special and important beings in my life right now.

that's why.

[elegy]

Ok, what's the point of this? We all know that dogs of any breed (or mix) can bite. Are you so ticked off that you feel the need to bring in other breeds that haven't been as exposed as pits have? No, pits are the only one's that bite, but they are the one's that get exposure because of what they were originally bred for and how some current breeders and owners treat/raise them. How many people buy a poodle, golden or lab and train it to be a vicious guard dog? Not to many I'm willing to bet. But people do buy pits, german shepherds and dobermans to do this and then don't train them correctly and the dogs end up attacking someone/something.

do you honestly think those people in those articles bought their labs or their golden retrievers or their spaniels to be vicious guard dogs? and yet, their dogs bit people. because they're DOGS. because they weren't managed properly, controlled properly, contained properly. it had NOTHING TO DO WITH BREED. that's the point. the whole freaking point.

it's not about breed. it's not about getting any other breed in trouble.

they don't get the exposure because of their background. they get the exposure because that's the cool thing to do in the media. they're media darlings right now. it used to be german shepherds. then it was dobes. what'll it be when all the pit bulls are dead?

the media cannot be counted on to present an accurate picture. you should know that. if it bleeds, it leads. it's about attracting viewers and readers and money. not about accuracy or spreading correct information.

pit bulls were CULLED for being human aggressive for crying out loud. if they bit their handler in the pit they were KILLED. how does that translate into today's attack dog? how does that translate into guard dog? that's how much this breed has been warped. if it can happen to the pit bull, it can happen to any other powerful breed.

most dog attacks are not the result of people training their dogs to be vicious. most pit bull attacks have nothing to do with druggies or gang bangers or thug wanna be dogfighters. they have to do with careless human beings who don't train or socialize their dogs PERIOD.

a dog who has been through obedience classes is something like 90% less likely to bite than a dog who hasn't been. THAT'S the point.

we get so hung up on breed. on which breeds are good, which are bad, which are going to bite. we forget the breed is secondary to the hands of the owner in which the dog has been placed.

[Roxy's CD]

OMG! This is eye opening...

You know what I thought was funny about most of those links... Not one of the headlines had the dog breed in it! If there is ever an attack with a pitt involved "KILLER PITTBULL" is somewhere in the headline.

Isn't that funny..

I'm glad you posted this elegy. As a pitt owner I've given up personally. No matter how many people meet my little guy and love him, no matter how many people in school see how well behaved he is and no matter how many people try to fight BSL, it doesn't seem to matter.

I totally agree with you. But not to be a downer, but I don't think it really matters. Even dog people on this forum have taken this the wrong way... let alone people who aren't dog lovers.

I'm with you elegy but I don't think it really does any good, and I'm sorry to say it.

[doberkim]

thank you for posting this. as an owner of dobermans - the point of this is that its not a breed that is bad. its irresponsible owners.

the fact that all these other breeds have bitten and harmed people - you never see them all over the news. you never see them plastered in the papers with headlines or catchy things like "KILLER DOG" or "MAULING". in fact, when a siberian husky killed a child in MA this past year or so - it barely made the news at all. when a woman broke up a dog fight that involved one pitbull, it made every single news station that night.

the point is - if you own dogs, and you love dogs, you should understand that pointing the finger at one breed is never going to work.

you guys are angry because other breeds were mentioned - think of how it feels when you live that EVERY SINGLE DAY. you are angry because you know the dogs that you have in your house, be it a lab or a golden or whatever - is a wonderful dog and you do your best to make them upright doggie citizens - how do you think it feels when the dogs in your house are dobes or pits or rotties? that NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO with those dogs, people will still label them and you are still subject to ridiculous laws not because yours are BAD, but because someone ELSE was irresponsible.

what it comes down to is this:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

-Pastor Martin Niemöller


What are you all going to do when YOUR BREED IS NEXT?

[jess2416]

Like you said, dogs bite. I would like to know why you want to make other breeds out to be "bad" because of "bad owners/breeders". Pit bulls have had a bad rap, but why would you want another breed to go through the same thing. You didn't like it; it's unfair; places are banning pits, etc. Why would you want another breed, or multiple breeds, to go through the same thing?


First of all I would like to say that I have a huge amount of respect for the responsible owners of pit bulls that do right by them, and try every day to make a difference in someones view of these wonderful animals

I cant speak for elegy, but I dont think that was the point she/he (sorry) was trying to make...

Its not fair for any breed to be banned, but you know what it happened and its happening..

I dont know how it is to be a pit bull owner, and right now I wouldnt want to be one..

Its soo unfair for people to judge animals on the way their heads are shaped or they way their face looks..

But if we as people cant even stop and look around us and not judge people then why not judge dogs:rolleyes:

No, its not fair that they have to go through this, but they do, the only thing I can do is be there for the people that "I" know that have to go through this..and try to make a difference in the people that "I" meet...when it comes to this issue...

[Aussie Red]

As an Austrailian cattle dog owner I can tell you that they ought to be put on the agressive list as well as catahoulas because that is what they are bred for not just herding but defending and mine do. Therefore I say again it is bad owners and bad press because the pit next door loves to play with our dogs and there is no agression or the need to kill....... well maybe your frisbee is in danger he is by all means a big " Lick-a lotamous "

[doberkim]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F09%2F15%2Fwdog15.x ml&sSheet=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F09%2F15%2Fixworld.html

ironically, someone JUST sent me this.
how do you corgi and BC owners feel?

[Roxy's CD]

I think Doberkim and Jess have made great points.

I would hope that other dog owners realize that it's not the breed. I hope that other dog owners would help in the fight. But as I said, it doesn't seem to be that way. People figure that it's not their breed so they don't have to worry about it.

As, Kim said, your breed could very well be next. Not to pick on labs in particular, but there have been 4 lab related attacks, (2 on people 2 on dogs) in my city in the past 3 months. I believe there is some type of "list" out there stating the breeds that are next in line for BSL. If we allow this "pittbull ban" to go through without a fight, it will most definitely not stop here.

As I've mentioned on so many other threads, if you want a dog YOU yes the PERSON should have to be certified and have to take some sort of dog behavioural course to get a dog. THAT will solve our problem. NOT banning "aggressive breeds".

[LabBreeder]

"because they weren't managed properly, controlled properly, contained properly. it had NOTHING TO DO WITH BREED. that's the point. the whole freaking point. " -elegy

That's what I'm trying to say. It's the owners that are making specific breeds look bad. Not the breeds themselves. I understand that pits are getting a very bad rap; but it's the owners and bad breeders that are causing it, not the dog. The dog is the outlet, unfortunately. I only know of a few people on here that are "against pits" and I'm not one of them. I like all breeds, big and small. I will give any dog a chance, but the second it is agressive towards me or my dogs I will do everything in my power to remove the dog from the situation it's in and the owners it's with. The dogs, and breeds, should not have to suffer due to irresponsible owners and breeders.
YES, there are irresponsible breeders and owners...you have to see that. That is the problem with why pits (and other so-called agressive breeds) are being persecuted. If more people took responsibility for their animals and trained them right and gave the socialization that was needed these dogs would not be biting people for no reason (or no good reason). Some of the bitten people bring it on themselves as well, regardless of training. A dog can only take so much poking, pulling, proding and meanness from another person/dog before it will strike back and defend itself. In those cases the dog should not be punished and the bitten person/dog has already been punished (by being bitten for their actions). (ex. - kid walked into a yard and started riding a chained up dog...or kid puts their face in a dogs face while it's eating in it's own fenced in yard and the kid came in uninvited)

I agree pits shouldn't be persecuted, but the bad owners/breeders should be. On the other hand, no breed should be persecuted because of a bite. If the dog is unable to be rehabilitated (or whatever they do after he keeps biting) then he may need to be pts. But don't condemn a whole breed.

[jess2416]

That's what I'm trying to say. It's the owners that are making specific breeds look bad. Not the breeds themselves. I understand that pits are getting a very bad rap; but it's the owners and bad breeders that are causing it, not the dog.

If that was what you were trying to say, why would you even type this

Ok, what's the point of this? We all know that dogs of any breed (or mix) can bite. Are you so ticked off that you feel the need to bring in other breeds that haven't been as exposed as pits have?

Wouldnt you be ticked off, if everytime someone saw you and your labs walking down the street and someone said, "Those are vicious, keep them away"

How would you feel?? I know I would be angry, hurt and angry and hurting for my dogs that *I* know have done nothing but look a certain way...

[Amstaffer]

certainly not labs! (http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060623/News01/606230327/-1/NEWS01/CAT=News01)

labs are everybody's favorite family dog (http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060613/NEWS/606130320)

not poodle mixes, either. (http://www.madison.com/tct/news/index.php?ntid=88014&ntpid=6)

or springers (http://www.thisisguernsey.com/code/showarchive.pl?ArticleID=000759&year=2006&category=news)

definitely *not* golden retrievers (http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5019915&nav=ZolHbyvj)

not another golden (http://nbc15.madison.com/news/headlines/3039446.html)

wait, i thought only pit bulls killed! (http://winnipegsun.com/News/Manitoba/2006/06/17/1637954-sun.html)

must have been a really big pit bull in a fluffy dog suit (http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=5002263&nav=3HvE)

dogs bite. it happens. it sucks.

Good post and excellent point

[Griffsgirl]

I don't own a pitbull but my really good friend owns three. They are the sweetest dogs I've ever met. One day she was dog sitting my Boston and my dog attach her pitbull that she even slipped a disc in her back and the pitbull did nothing to her. Just look at her like she was crazy.

[elegy]

why is it that irresponsible owners are making x breed look bad? why is that the chosen common denominator? why not irresponsible owners make irresponsible ownership look bad? or makes unleashed, free-roaming dogs look bad? or chained dogs look bad? or untrained dogs look bad? because those are often much more common denominators than breed.

the problem with pits is that there often IS no problem with pits. there's a big problem with ownership. absolutely. but it is not a breed-specific problem. all of those articles i posted- ALL of those dogs bit and not a single one was a pit bull. so why is it a pit bull problem? yes, lots of crappy people are attracted to pit bulls. and then we plaster them all over the media some more as the poster child of the evil nasty mean dog and even more people seeking evil nasty mean dogs go out and acquire them.

after the incident in california where diane whipple was attacked and killed by presa canario there was an unprecendented demand for the obscure breed by people wanting dogs like that one who killed the lady in california.

[LabBreeder]

Because, Jess, there was no definitive statement or question in the first post. There were only a bunch of sites about other breeds biting. Until the OP and others started posting, it was a smart alec post that was just showing that other dogs bite too. Well no DUH! Everyone knows that all dogs can bite...every animal can. The point of the post you quoted was to find out what the deal was and why the OP felt the need to drag in other breeds that HAVEN'T been ostrasized as pits have. Why would you want to have other breeds that have bitten go through the same thing pits are going through? I thought the point was to keep breeds, especially pits, from being labeled and banned.

[Georgygirl]

Why would you want to have other breeds that have bitten go through the same thing pits are going through?

Because if the media is going to report dog bites they should report about ALL dog bites. Maybe if the public actually got the WHOLE picture on dog bites they wouldn't be so prejudice about a certain breed. Maybe then people would realize "hmmmmmm, what do all these attacks have in common? Irresponsible owners?" Why do pits have to end up the martyrs?

[LabBreeder]

Apparently the bites, or at least some of them, are being reported otherwise they wouldn't be on news sites. Granted you don't see near as many other breeds as you do pits because of the bad rap pits have gotten.
If bringing out all the bite articles would help to not ban a breed, then I'm all for it.
If it will only make the rest of the breeds (or any dog breed or mix) that have bitten also be banned then what will we do?
Will everyone have to give up their best fur friend even if he/she has never bitten someone? Should a petition be started to make it mandatory for all potential, and current, owners go through a course in 'how to train your dog'? If so, where does it get sent once it's signed?

No particular breed should have to be martyred in order to stop the sensationalism of a dog bite. What if this had started with poodles...what if poodles had been labeled "agressive"? Would you all still be as upset even though it's not your dogs breed? If so, why not have everyone get together and try to help stop breed banning??

[jess2416]

why is it that irresponsible owners are making x breed look bad? why is that the chosen common denominator? why not irresponsible owners make irresponsible ownership look bad? or makes unleashed, free-roaming dogs look bad? or chained dogs look bad? or untrained dogs look bad? because those are often much more common denominators than breed.

the problem with pits is that there often IS no problem with pits. there's a big problem with ownership. absolutely. but it is not a breed-specific problem. all of those articles i posted- ALL of those dogs bit and not a single one was a pit bull. so why is it a pit bull problem? yes, lots of crappy people are attracted to pit bulls. and then we plaster them all over the media some more as the poster child of the evil nasty mean dog and even more people seeking evil nasty mean dogs go out and acquire them.

after the incident in california where diane whipple was attacked and killed by presa canario there was an unprecendented demand for the obscure breed by people wanting dogs like that one who killed the lady in california.

I remember that incident...I watched the story on 48 Hours or 20/20 (I think)

Elegy, I agree with you 100%

I'll admit I used to be one of those people that would walk a mile around a person with a pit bull..and I am ashamed of that...

I would hear and read about all the "awful" things that they (the breed) did, and I felt the same way that some people do..

But the difference between me and them, is the simple fact that I took time to read about the breed..

I took the time to sit down with people that own them, and care for them, and I took time to get to know the dogs as *INDIVIDUALS* not by looking at them as a specific breed..

I took time to look at the difference *responsible* and *irresponsible* ownership can do to any dog not just pit bulls..

Why they are portrayed the way they are I will never know or understand but it makes me sad, that the responsible owners and thier dogs have to suffer because a IDIOT wanted to be bad and decided to get a dog and make it his/her status symbol....

[~Tucker&Me~]

Well put, Georgygirl.
I think the OP was trying to prove that ALL dogs bite. Actually, not that long ago, a senior man was attacked by a dog in my area. He reported that 'A pitbull charged, and attacked me viciously.'. Of course, the media went nuts and were driving around trying to find the dog. However, once the dog was found, it was identified as a lab. NO story was done, and the media left right away, uninterested. Had it have been a bully breed, it would have made the front page.

Roxy's CD, NEVER EVER give up. At the worst caser, we cannot go down withought a fight. Everyone MUST keep fighting. At the very least, if the pitty cannot be saved, we may succeed in saving other breeds :(.

~Tucker

[filarotten]

Elegy, I do understand where you are coming from, and all Pitts are getting a bad rap, it isn't fair, but my Rottie being # 2 isn't either.
I also have a Fila, which is not only banned in cities, but also countries. I have not yet found any concrete evidence as to why. I have been diligently searching the Internet for a newspaper article, television program or something to show where these dogs have mauled people and hunted them down as prey. So far not a darn thing, not one blessed article. It seems because of the very protective nature, and distrust of strangers they are deadly vicious animals, as one animal loving website put it,

Editor:- "Considering the current information researched on this breed, we have decided not to publish further information, as we would find it hard to recommend this breed as a domestic animal. If there is a Fila Brasileiro breeder somewhere in the world who would like to put forward more information about this breed that refutes the infomration presented here, we would love to hear from you "webmaster@mypets.net.au Now, as a Fila owner how do you think thats makes me feel?

My Fila and Rottie, are much more predictable than Maggie, my ShihTzu mix, and Spike the ACD mix. The little ones will be the ones that would bite first. My big dogs will size up the situation before biting. If has to be an actual threat to me or my family before they would attack.

No matter how you look at it...it's all Bull Sh*t

[Georgygirl]

I'm always for the underdog so if it were chihuahuas getting banned I'd be just as passionate and I'd speak out till I was blue in the face. I don't own a pitbull so it's not "my breed" but I can see an innocent victim. I can tell when something is immoral and unfair. I'll always fight for the victims that can't fight for themselves no matter what species.

And personally I think a lot more people would get involved if "their breed" was on that ban list. People tend to pay more attention when things start hitting home.

[Roxy's CD]

I had no idea a presa killed a woman... I'm surprised I never heard of that.

All dog breeds have had their "fad" time. Rotts/dobes were 80's early 90's and now the pitt. (at least faddy for people who want mean dogs, like drug dealers) And I think that's one of the main reasons pitts have been banned, in the paper you see people's houses getting raided and almost everytime there's a mention of a pittbull or pittbull mix "guarding" the house.

Personally dobes and rotts have always been a favourite of mine. I was never particularly attracted to the pittbull breed until I stumbled across Hades.

I must admit that I am a wrongdoer in the sense that I advertise freely the other breeds of dogs that bite offen. I guess it's my defensive position, that I have to take on a lot when discussing pitts with dumb people. I guess I just try to show them that their "familydog" in their own backyard if not socialized and trained properly is just as likely to attack your own child as a pitt... or any other dog for that matter.

I don't advertise these breeds to put them down, but only to put all dogs on the same level, and help to prove that it's not the breed but the owner.

*sigh* And Hades was sooo good in school tonight. So good that a man that once thought Hades was a horrible killer commented on his behaviour tonight. Stating that he would be calling the mayor about BSL. A couple other people seconded that.

[RD]

Dogs are dogs. I agree that selecting the right breed is important ... but at the end of the day, no matter how exotic its breed, no matter whether it was bred to hunt or herd or guard, no matter what its instinctive tendencies are, a dog is just a dog. As different as most breeds are from one another, ALL dogs will respond well to love, kindness and training and respond negatively to neglect and abuse.

I agree with you, Elegy. There usually isn't a problem with the dogs.

[GSDlover_4ever]

Like you said, dogs bite. I would like to know why you want to make other breeds out to be "bad" because of "bad owners/breeders". Pit bulls have had a bad rap, but why would you want another breed to go through the same thing. You didn't like it; it's unfair; places are banning pits, etc. Why would you want another breed, or multiple breeds, to go through the same thing?

Your just mad because your breed was involved :p . Why does the pitbull have to stay in the spotlight? You feel so strongly about this, imagine how the pitbull owners feel.

[elegy]

Elegy, I do understand where you are coming from, and all Pitts are getting a bad rap, it isn't fair, but my Rottie being # 2 isn't either.
I also have a Fila, which is not only banned in cities, but also countries.

it's not fair that ANY breed should be banned. i'm especially passionate about pit bulls because it's *my* breed, but no responsible owner of any breed should be faced with this. i used to have a link to a comprehensive list of banned breeds. it was ridiculous. people love these dogs, own them responsibly, don't cause anybody any problems, and yet they're still faced with horrible choices, discrimination, even having their dogs killed for being the "wrong" breed. it's horrible.

I had no idea a presa killed a woman... I'm surprised I never heard of that.

it happened in 2001 i think. the dog was originally identified as a pit bull, of course. it was a huge drama- drugs, aryan nation, alleged trained "attack dogs". there were two dogs (bane and hera), both with a history of aggression, living in a tiny apartment building with no exercise and no training. google "diane whipple". there's a lot of info out there. it's such a sad story.

[LabBreeder]

Your just mad because your breed was involved :p . Why does the pitbull have to stay in the spotlight? You feel so strongly about this, imagine how the pitbull owners feel.

Ya big goober! :p I've seen the reports on labs, chis, doxies, all kinds of breeds. I've witnessed doxies (in my neighborhood) being more agressive than any pit I've ever met. As a child I was bitten by a chow that was left to roam around the neighborhood. I'm more worried about chows than pits. With all the dogs roaming the neighborhood now, I don't know which one's to worry about....besides the doxies and one mix that lives next door (she was off leash, no collar, owner was outside; walked up to me and my Labs, sniffed, then bared her teeth; by then the owner was standing over her and had grabbed her scruff and drug her off. they still let her off leash w/ out a collar:eek: )

Sadly, all I can do is imagine how they feel. I've seen the videos about banning and cry every time, but that doesn't change what may happen. No breed needs to be in the spotlight...well, not in a bad spotlight at least.

[jess2416]

it happened in 2001 i think. the dog was originally identified as a pit bull, of course. it was a huge drama- drugs, aryan nation, alleged trained "attack dogs". there were two dogs (bane and hera), both with a history of aggression, living in a tiny apartment building with no exercise and no training. google "diane whipple". there's a lot of info out there. it's such a sad story.

It is sad :( and very sick :mad: what happened to those dogs inside that apartment :mad: its also sad what happened to Diane Whipple, very sad..

[dr2little]

My latest bite cases were - lab, cocker spaniel, greyhound, lhasa apso.

Just my 2 cents....

[~Tucker&Me~]

Was the greyhound and ex-racer...?

~Tucker

[dr2little]

Yes, it was fostered for a short while but came from the track.

[~Tucker&Me~]

*cringe*
What a shame. It will give rescued racers a bad rep. :(
How bad was the case? Can he be rehabilitated?

~Tucker

[juliefurry]

ok we are not in this forum to single out ANY breeds! We all respect and understand about pitbulls and other bully breeds. You do not need to start badmouthing other breeds! Any time a negative thing is said about pits and other bullies WE DEFEND THEM!

[dr2little]

*cringe*
What a shame. It will give rescued racers a bad rep. :(
How bad was the case? Can he be rehabilitated?

~Tucker

This particular family was terrific. The dog bit their adult son while he was visiting. 22 stitches in his lip/chin. It's really awful I know but I guess the guy had known that the dog had space issues and pushed past the warning growl, thinking that the dog knew him enough not to bite. He tried to hug him while he was lying in his dog bed and ignored a very clear warning.
The family, including the guy that was bitten, feels that the boundries were pushed and that they want to work with me to keep the dog. Rehab. always works pretty well in cases where everyone is compliant and willing. The dog is otherwise very nice, but obviously has not had enough leadership/boundries.
He came right over to me and when I sat down after we "checked each other out" he kissed my cheek. The difference was, I didn't reach for him or try to Hug him...:eek:
I think this one will have a good outcome.:)

[dr2little]

ok we are not in this forum to single out ANY breeds! We all respect and understand about pitbulls and other bully breeds. You do not need to start badmouthing other breeds! Any time a negative thing is said about pits and other bullies WE DEFEND THEM!

I'm by no means trying to single out any breeds, in case you're referring to my post. Quite the opposite really, bite cases come to me in all shapes and sizes, breeds and mixes. That's my point. My post could have included a Labradoodle, Chihuahua, or Brussels Griffon, (my breeds currently) and if those were my most recent bite cases, I would certainly have posted them without concern of singling them out.:)

[~Tucker&Me~]

I don't think Dr2little was singling anyone out.

It's good that they realized their mistake and are willing to help :).

~Tucker

[Red_ACD_for_me]

Unfortunately this is not a perfect world and not everyone that own's dogs are not perfect people especially some who choose to own some of the more aggressive breeds with bad reps! I agree with Aussie red, cattle dogs should be on the list but they are uncommon and lots of people have no idea about them, especially where I live. I get people who think Cai is a pitbull all the time and cross the street when I walk him. I also get the young punk thugs who think because he has a big head and some muscles that they get intrigued by what he is and ask where they can get one :rolleyes: People are just IGNORANT! I already know that pitbulls are big headed mush balls with a bad reputation, I have owned one and a pit mix in the past and was so sick of the negativity that I decided on something different this time around. I have also had GSD's remember there bad reputations? I'm sorry but the majority of pitbull owners aren't good people and ELEGY you are one of the BEST ;) I live in BOSTON the inner city is swarming with pitbulls who are being fought in organized rings and are owned by drug heads and scum bags in lower income lying areas. The shelters here in Boston are full of pitbulls and pit mixes as well due to irresponsible breeding and I mean god forbid you spay/neuter a pitbull that just isn't the cool thing to do :cool:! I know it is frustrating but sooner or later you realise that you are only one person and can't change the world Unfortuantely! Or the BSL BULL$h..! :mad:

[whatszmatter]

Apparently the bites, or at least some of them, are being reported otherwise they wouldn't be on news sites.

A few of those bites happend within 30 miles of me and I watch the local news, those channels in fact that were reporting it and never heard a thing about them. But when they had an article about a pitt attacking a dachsund a few months ago in that same city, it was on the morning and both evening news slots for TWO days. They dog they showed that did the attacking for 2 seconds before they switched over to a generic picture of a vicious looking pitt looked anything but menacing, and the dachsund was white and fluffy???... BUt that's the news for you.

a few of those bites happend within the past couple weeks less than 30 miles from me and i heard nothing until Elegy pointed it out, but if it was a pit bull in walla walla WA that scratched a little kid you can bet it would probably make regional if not national news yet again.

Thank you Elegy for posting these, and I feel for you. I don't know how you can do it everyday with all the stigmas and negative press. It takes a strong person.

[LabBreeder]

Ok, so you didn't hear about the bites. Well, elegy found them and knew about them soooo obviously they were available. 5 were newspaper articles and the rest were on t.v. stations. If any of them happened near you (and you read the paper) you would have seen them or heard about them. Just because you didn't know about them doesn't mean other people didn't.

[whatszmatter]

i guess somebody missed my point entirely:confused:

[elegy]

labbreeder, do you remember the dog attack that sparked the sb-861 in california? i'm guessing probably not, being as you're not affected by any kind of breed-specific legislation (and yes, the law was talked down to be just mandatory spay/neuter of breeds decreed "dangerous" but it is STILL bsl).

a boy was left locked in the basement, blocked in by his mother by a shovel wedged under the door. the two intact (oversized) pit bulls had a history of aggression, and the female was in heat. the kid busted his way out of the basement and was mauled and killed by the dogs. clearly the picture of unpredictable, right? clearly the picture of a fantastic owner. a mother who locks her kid in the basement using a SHOVEL for pity's sake.

and yet, it sparked a huge outcry against pit bulls even though california had very good non-breed specific dangerous dog lesgislation in place, laws which were often held up as an example of what to do.

i posted two articles of non-pit bull breed dogs killing people. where's the outcry? where's the banning? where's the laws to outlaw great pyrenese dogs or malamutes? it's not there.

and it shouldn't be.

why's it different with pit bulls?

i have read several times of people running into problems with huskies and malamutes being rejected by homeowner's insurance policies and their owners are (rightfully) outraged. they have no idea that there have been at least 55 fatalities attributed to the two breeds and mixes. does that mean sibes and malamutes are dangerous? do you look at a husky and think "omg vicious dog?!" no. but they still kill people.

you want more? a whole listing of recent dog bites (http://www.chako.org/dogblog/forums/8/ShowForum.aspx)

[JennSLK]

Dian Whiplpe:

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/Whipple.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2002/03/22/dogmaulgallery.DTL

[LabBreeder]

As I've said before, bad owners = bad dogs. The mother should have been put in jail for murder, intent to kill or endager her child, etc. If she hadn't locked the boy in there then there wouldn't be a problem now.

No, I don't live in California so I didn't know about you're pit ban in progress. I also didn't know about why it's in progress. That's not the point though. It's your state. If you are so worried about your breed being banned then do something about it.

I'd still like to know why you are trying to bring down other breeds. If you don't like your breed having the possibility of being banned why in the hell would you want other people and their breeds to go through the same thing. Do you want every breed that's ever bitten someone to be banned? If so, there won't be many left to choose from when you're done.

I understand that your P.O'd about pit banning but you don't have to bring down every other breed with you. :mad: Do something about your problem if you don't want it to happen. You argue on here enough, why not take it to the streets and courts as well.

[pup-man]

l
a boy was left locked in the basement, blocked in by his mother by a shovel wedged under the door. the two intact (oversized) pit bulls had a history of aggression, and the female was in heat. the kid busted his way out of the basement and was mauled and killed by the dogs. clearly the picture of unpredictable, right? clearly the picture of a fantastic owner. a mother who locks her kid in the basement using a SHOVEL for pity's sake.[/url]

I'd bet the farm that: even with this horrible mother, horrible dog owner, that if these 2 dogs were a poodle it wouldn't have happened.

That's the difference... that's why they are implementing BSL.

[JennSLK]

I'd bet the farm that: even with this horrible mother, horrible dog owner, that if these 2 dogs were a poodle it wouldn't have happened

It has NOTHING to do with breed.

If I treated Emma like that and also had two intact male beagle and treated them like sh!t too they would act the same way

[whatszmatter]

I'd bet the farm that: even with this horrible mother, horrible dog owner, that if these 2 dogs were a poodle it wouldn't have happened.

That's the difference... that's why they are implementing BSL.
so if you had two oversized intact poodles with a history of aggression left alone with a child that just broke out of the basement and a bitch in heat, you're trying to say that nothing could happen cause they were poodles???

Hate to break it to you but a 6 month old was killed by a laphsa that weighed only 6 pounds while his uncle went into the living room to get something and left him alone on the bed when the dog killed the infant.

[pup-man]

I'm not saying it's not possible... I'm saying the odds of a fatality are decreased DRAMATICALY!

The entire BSL thing sucks..., trust me, I know and understand.... But what can the GOVT do? They can't make owners responsible? They can't enfore responsibility in each homeowners prive house-hold.... so they are left with the BSL.

I understand the owners play a HUGE roll in why fatalities occur in dog bites.... and it's not breed specific... but IMO the breed does play a small role in it for the obvious reasons. The bully breeds were accountable for 73% of dog bite fatalities as of this year. You can't blame the GOVT for these staggering statistics.

When I walk my "toy" dogs around the neighboor hood and see a bully or large breed dog coming our way.... do I move across the street? Of course I do..... do I do it because of the dog? Nope.... do I do it because of the person holding the leash? HELL YEAH! It's the owners fault... that's the bottom line.

[pup-man]

so if you had two oversized intact poodles with a history of aggression left alone with a child that just broke out of the basement and a bitch in heat, you're trying to say that nothing could happen cause they were poodles???

If somehow we were able to re-create the moment and replaced the dogs with poodles...... would you put your money on it happening again? You wouldn't.

[JennSLK]

You are forgeting something very important. They are relying heavely in most cases on the public being able to tell what bree it is!

If somehow we were able to re-create the moment and replaced the dogs with poodles...... would you put your money on it happening again? You wouldn't

I would.

The entire BSL thing sucks..., trust me, I know and understand.... But what can the GOVT do? They can't make owners responsible? They can't enfore responsibility in each homeowners prive house-hold.... so they are left with the BSL.


It's been proven that BSL does NOT work

[Roxy's CD]

*panting with anger*

pup-man- YOU and YOUR dogs are the reason I cross the street! YOUR LITTLE DOGS GROWL AND BARK AND SNARL AT MY DOGS AND THEY LITERALLY HAVE KNOCKED ME OVER TRYING TO RUN AND HIDE BEHIND ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

9.5 times out of 10 in my city the little dogs are the ones that cause the trouble. QUITE LITERALLY! Is it ok that these littles dogs are aggressive? Of course it is, it's cute! *really pissed off*

I do understand that with pittbulls and rottweilers fatalities do happen more offen. What do you expect? You have a 300lb man and a 100 lb man. Which one is going to hurt you more with a baseball bat? DUH. But the point is, if these "300lbs men" (dogs, rotts, pitts) are owned by responsible people they would never get a bat to hurt anyone.... That is the point. That regardless of breed what it boils down to is the owner. Just because a Chi bites someone and didn't kill them DOES NOT MAKE IT OK! But according to the government it is.

As for your recreating the moment, if everything other than the breed was the same, yes I would most definitely put my money on the situation happening again.

[Roxy's CD]

Ok ok...

Senario:
Two 6 year old boys. I give one of them a needle and the other a Tech 9. Assuming of course that neither of these boys have ever been taught right and wrong. (as with dogs that aren't given basic training, socialization etc)

Which one is going to cause more damage? Is it the kids fault that his parents didn't teach him right and wrong? No, it isn't that's why the parents are respsonible for the kids actions, I believe until 12 years old? Please correct me if I'm wrong. The point is there. You can't put the blame on someone who doesn't know any better. Dogs are obviously beneath us humans. It's up to us to teach them the skills they need to know to function in our society. If they aren't taught those skills and those manners than it's the breed's fault?!?!?!?!?!?!?

This will obviously go no where. You and your toy dog are just perfect. Your dog has probably never shown any signs of aggression. Ever. It's adorable when your toy dog growls and barks and bites people, not aggressive. Hey, take a video of it, they'll probably put it on AFV, because it's acceptable.

[pup-man]

*panting with anger*

pup-man- YOU and YOUR dogs are the reason I cross the street! YOUR LITTLE DOGS GROWL AND BARK AND SNARL AT MY DOGS AND THEY LITERALLY HAVE KNOCKED ME OVER TRYING TO RUN AND HIDE BEHIND ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I live in California. It's not me or my dogs you see.

9.5 times out of 10 in my city the little dogs are the ones that cause the trouble. QUITE LITERALLY! Is it ok that these littles dogs are aggressive? Of course it is, it's cute! *really pissed off*

The chance of a fatality are slim to none. The GOVT is only interested in preventing deaths that occur in dog bite cases. Do you see them banning bumble bees because they bite or sting people. Their intentions are strictly on fatalities.


As for your recreating the moment, if everything other than the breed was the same, yes I would most definitely put my money on the situation happening again.

I'd hate for you to be my financial advisor.

[Melissa_W]

As I've said before, bad owners = bad dogs. The mother should have been put in jail for murder, intent to kill or endager her child, etc. If she hadn't locked the boy in there then there wouldn't be a problem now.

No, I don't live in California so I didn't know about you're pit ban in progress. I also didn't know about why it's in progress. That's not the point though. It's your state. If you are so worried about your breed being banned then do something about it.

I'd still like to know why you are trying to bring down other breeds. If you don't like your breed having the possibility of being banned why in the hell would you want other people and their breeds to go through the same thing. Do you want every breed that's ever bitten someone to be banned? If so, there won't be many left to choose from when you're done.

I understand that your P.O'd about pit banning but you don't have to bring down every other breed with you. :mad: Do something about your problem if you don't want it to happen. You argue on here enough, why not take it to the streets and courts as well.

I think you are missing the point. It's not about bringing other breeds down or banning other breeds. The point is that it's NOT ABOUT THE BREED. Any poorly bred dog with an irresponsible owner can bite. Because it's not about the breed, BSL is completely pointless. I think that's what the OP is trying to get across. Do you see what I'm saying?

[pup-man]

This will obviously go no where. You and your toy dog are just perfect. Your dog has probably never shown any signs of aggression. Ever. It's adorable when your toy dog growls and barks and bites people, not aggressive. Hey, take a video of it, they'll probably put it on AFV, because it's acceptable.

It's sucks, but you're probably right. I guess that's life. :D

[Roxy's CD]

This is why I give up.

People like you.

People that obviously know nothing about dogs.

People like you, that have no idea the value of training and knowledge when it comes to training animals period, not just dogs.

People like you, on a dog forum, claiming you love animals but are all for BSL. WTF IS THAT?!?!

People like you that regardless of first hand experience stories or first hand experience yourself cannot admit that it's not the breed.

People like you that probably have never even been in contact with a pitt that's been socialized and trained properly.

How many pittbulls have you seen? How many of them have taken obedience classes?

I have met personally, quite a few pittbulls. Some better than others. But, not one of the pittbulls that have gone to my dog school has been aggressive. NOT ONE OF THEM. People that pay money, and are committed to training their dogs will probably not have a problem. And if they do they are quick to fix it.

some people.... clueless......

[pup-man]

Did I read that correctly? Then you mention this on another thread? You're her responsible owner and she shows some kind of agression towards you..... I wonder what she would do in the public when a kid comes walking along? Hmmm....

"Ah, she warns people. Like, if you go to touch her face, she'll show her teeth, maybe move away.

I don't think she would "bite" as in draw blood, but I think she would definitely place your hand in her mouth. As if to say, "I could bite you right now, so **** off and leave me alone already!"

Sometimes she gets testy with me touching her face, if she's tired and grumpy. (I usually touch her anyways) But it shows how bad she is if a complete stranger touches her"

[Roxy's CD]

Obviously you havne't been around many dogs.

If you had some than you would know that some dogs prefer their pack as opposed to other people. It's not UNUSUAL for a dog to not like being touched by stranger! ARE YOU REALLY THAT STUPID!

Yes, Roxy does not like people touching her face. Do I tell people that of course I do. DO I PAY LOTS OF MONEY FOR HER TO GO TO SCHOOL TO FIX THE PROBLEM!!! **** RIGHT I DO!

My dogs have never bit anyone. They don't growl at other dogs, they don't growl randomly at people.

Don't try to turn this around onto me as a "bad owner". I've been working with Roxy plenty to fix her issues and spending THOUSANDS of dollars.

How dare you! That was posted on a thread regarding "standing for examination". Do you even know what that is? That has nothing to do with people on the street. There is no reason that people on the street would touch my dogs muzzle or look at her teeth.

Do I think that the behaviour is acceptable? No, I don't. Do I understand that there are some dogs that just don't like being touched! Of course I do!

Yes I touch her. Does she growl. No, she'll shy her head away. Too bad, she's my dog and I'll touch her wherever I want to.

We had issues surrounding the furniture. That has been solved. I never once stated that she "growled at me for touching her" Ever. Learn how to read.

If you read that whole thread you should've seen that other people have experienced this issue with their dogs as well. It is not unusual and as a responsible owner I tell people that they CANNOT pet her. The funny thing, getting back onto topic, is that they are more than welcome to pet my PITTBULL. The topic of this thread. Yes, strange children can pet my pittbull. Strange children can hug my PITTBULL.

I admit that as a dog owner, before I got my PITTBULL I didn't know a lot of what I know now. I ADMIT IT! But as I stated before, I am LEARNING! I have spent THOUSANDS, yes THOUSANDS of dollars with a trainer to work with Roxy's issues with strangers. But as I stated before and will state again IT IS NOT UNUSUAL for a dog to dislike being touched by strangers.

Roxy does not attack people. She does not lunge at people. SHE DOES NOT LIKE BEING TOUCHED BY STRANGERS. She is wary of strangers LIKE MANY BREEDS ARE.

I am a responsible owner and I know it. I spend more time working with my dogs than you could even possibly imagine. Not that it makes me better than you, but I also spend more money on training my dogs than you could possibly fathom. I know Roxy inside and out. I know what she likes and what she dislikes. I know what is acceptable or NORMAL and what is not. Being wary of strangers is not totally unheard of. Dogs have personalities just like people.

she warns people. Like, if you go to touch her face, she'll show her teeth, maybe move away

Where does that say that she bites? If people continued after her warning, yes she would probably "bite". What kind of idiot continues to touch a dog after she has showed her teeth, got up and MOVED AWAY FROM THEM!?!?!?

Someone like you I imagine.

The difference with me, is that I admit during the first months of Roxy's life I was not a good leader, which lead to the problems that I am dealing with now. The difference is, that I AM DEALING WITH THEM IN A PROPER FASHION. Paid training. Homework.

[Roxy's CD]

Oh and to answer your question, Roxy loves kids. She's a big dog and I respect that so I dont' allow her to go near other kids. I avoid what could be a bad situation. Just like I don't let my kids go near strange dogs.

My nephew 5 and my niece 8 are at my house everyday. They play with Roxy and Hades everyday. They tug on their ears and pull on their tails. They even touch Roxy's face... Hmm.. I wonder why that is...

I don't know where you got the idea that Roxy attacks KIDS, but it's wrong. I've never stated that Roxy has tried to attack anyone.

For the last time, "She doesn't like to be touched, (in the face) by strangers".

Not, "She attacks strangers" Not "She bites people" Not "She eats kids"

SHE DOESN'T LIKE TO BE TOUCHED BY STRANGERS.

As stated above this is not unusual behaviour for a dog.

[Buddy'sParents]

I'd still like to know why you are trying to bring down other breeds. If you don't like your breed having the possibility of being banned why in the hell would you want other people and their breeds to go through the same thing. Do you want every breed that's ever bitten someone to be banned? If so, there won't be many left to choose from when you're done.


<sigh>

You have missunderstood the point of this whole thread. For some reason, you just don't get it, I suggest stopping now before you blow a gasket....


Elegy- great post and thank you for pointing out that it is bad ownership, not bad breeds. Pit bulls get bad press because they are whats "hot" right now.

It's also "funny" that 99% dog fights and bites that do get press are pit bulls, when statistics will show that other dogs bite more (try googling before anyone comes after me with "how do you know that").

Roxy, good points, but calm down sweetie :) Don't let others ignorance get you so angry.

[JennSLK]

Roxy, good points, but calm down sweetie Don't let others ignorance get you so angry


Good advice BP

[Roxy's CD]

So you can edit to bold the quote but you can't respond.

Is that more information than you thought you would get?

You can't read half a post and respond, than expect not to get jumped. You came to a thread anti-BSL, said you were for it, and now seeing that your opinion was not agreed upon you attack me as a dog owner.

I'm big enough to admit that Roxy has issues. Her issues are NOT abnormal. Many confirmation dogs go through this sort of issue.

[Roxy's CD]

LOL a Jenn and BP.

I can't help it, when I come to a dog forum, knowing that my dog has issues, and admitting that it's partly my fault. Also, knowing how much time I dedicate to working on those problems. I don't expect to get told I'm a bad owner because, yes, my dog doesn't like to be touched.

[Serena]

If somehow we were able to re-create the moment and replaced the dogs with poodles...... would you put your money on it happening again? You wouldn't


Not only were the dogs kept in a crappy enviroment with a crappy owner but it sounds like they were genetically unsound.

Aggression has been displayed before. Now if the form of aggression talked about was human aggression red flags should have gone right up.

Pits with proper breed temperament are NOT human aggressive.

Combine crappy genetics, crappy enviroment, and a crappy owner and you will always have a time bomb waiting to go off...regardless of the breed.

Would I put money on the same thing happening again if Poodles were substituted in this case?

**** straight I would.

I put money on the same thing happening with any breed substituting if this scenario was recreated.

[Georgygirl]

I guess I expect the government to enforce the laws they already have. How many times have you heard in those attack stories that the dog had a history of being aggressive. Why wasn't anything done then? Why wait until its too late and a whole breed has to suffer for the acts of a few.

I really do think that if they're reporting dog bites they should report about ALL of them. Do you honestly think that people will sit by and pass legislation against every breed that's ever bitten? No, they'll realize that BSL is ridulous and that the govt has stepped over the line.

[JennSLK]

No, they'll realize that BSL is ridulous and that the govt has stepped over the line.


Unfortonetaly it will be too late for most breeds.

[Serena]

When I walk my "toy" dogs around the neighboor hood and see a bully or large breed dog coming our way.... do I move across the street? Of course I do..... do I do it because of the dog? Nope.... do I do it because of the person holding the leash? HELL YEAH! It's the owners fault... that's the bottom line.

What about owners of toy dogs that think its cute for their dogs to come running and snapping at mine?

What makes that acceptable?

Because a small dog in reality isn't going to cause as much damage as my GSD's or my mix that makes a toy breeds inappropriate behavior alright?

I don't think so.

Bad behavior is bad behavior. It is not acceptable. There is nothing cute about it and the size or the breed does not make a difference.

A poorly trained misbehaved dog is a nuisance period.

I can guarantee if my dogs behaved in the same manner I see little dogs allowed to act I'd be going to court.

[pup-man]

So you can edit to bold the quote but you can't respond.

Is that more information than you thought you would get?

You can't read half a post and respond, than expect not to get jumped. You came to a thread anti-BSL, said you were for it, and now seeing that your opinion was not agreed upon you attack me as a dog owner.

I'm big enough to admit that Roxy has issues. Her issues are NOT abnormal. Many confirmation dogs go through this sort of issue.

You need to relax. I can see you clicking the "refresh" button like some lunatic on drugs waiting to see if I have responded.

I'd highly advise you re-read my post regarding this subject. On every post I mentioned, I have agreed it's the owner who plays the majority role on why certain breeds attack. If you need help understand or reading the messages over, I'm sure you can have somebody do it for you. Have a cocktail or something while your at it.

[Georgygirl]

Sorry Jen, I don't think you quite got my point. If ALL dog bites are reported and not just pitbulls then people would realize that the one thing that all the bites have in common are irresponsible owners, not a particular breed. Labreeders point if I understand correctly is that if all dog bites were reported by the media then all those breeds would be banned. Personally I think if all the breeds that bit were on the ban list then there's no way in heck people would be behind it. Nobody wants "their breed" to be banned. Hopefully then people will go after the cause, the irresponsible owners and leave the different breeds alone. It seems only fair that if the media is allowed to report pitbull attacks that they should also have to report the attacks of other breeds. Either that or the media just shouldn't report attack at all.

[whatszmatter]

If somehow we were able to re-create the moment and replaced the dogs with poodles...... would you put your money on it happening again? You wouldn't.
If I could re-create the moment completely hell yeah i'd place money on something very bad happening, I don't know why you wouldn't. Would I place money on a death occuring every time, no... Pit bull or poodle, but i'd place money that some serious damage would be done by any breed.

Most fatalities are the result of some bully breed or mix and you can attribute that to many different reasons, but i'm not going to look towards BSL to save me. I don't need the gov't to keep me safe or limit my freedoms to give me any piece of mind. BSL's have been shown over and over again, NOT to work, fatalities still happen and pit bull bites are replaced by other breed bites.

I don't need my gov't telling me what type of car I can drive, or others, I don't need them to tell me where I can live, what I can do in my free time, or what type of food I want to eat. I don't need them to tell me what type of medical treatment I need to get for myself or any children I may have, or what types of dog breeds I can own or how many. But sadly more and more of our freedoms seem to dwindle every year because somehow people get a sense of security from being restricted.

As for the drug induced raging lunatic comments, those are probably best left out of the discussion

[dr2little]

What about owners of toy dogs that think its cute for their dogs to come running and snapping at mine?

What makes that acceptable?

Because a small dog in reality isn't going to cause as much damage as my GSD's or my mix that makes a toy breeds inappropriate behavior alright?

I don't think so.

Bad behavior is bad behavior. It is not acceptable. There is nothing cute about it and the size or the breed does not make a difference.

A poorly trained misbehaved dog is a nuisance period.

I can guarantee if my dogs behaved in the same manner I see little dogs allowed to act I'd be going to court.

I agree, and don't be so sure that a small dog won't "harm" a larger dog.
Sophie, who is not only my best girlfriend;) but also my demo dog is about 85 lbs. While on leash, not once but twice, she was full on attacked by a miniature schnauzer. While he did not actually physically harm her, she is no longer able to help with my classes as I now have the long and difficult job of desensitizing her to small grey/black dogs. I also own 4 toy breeds, and yes they are every bit as much dogs as my large dog. The owner of the schnauzer was smirking:mad: (he acutally thought it was funny) as I was struggling to keep his dog from biting Sophie and also from being killed by her in the process of defending herself. While he/his dog has been reported, the damage is done. Aggressive small breeds are not in any way, shape or form cute and should not be tollerated by the public any more than a large dog exibiting the same behavior.

[Serena]

I agree, and don't be so sure that a small dog won't "harm" a larger dog.
Sophie, who is not only my best girlfriend;) but also my demo dog is about 85 lbs. While on leash, not once but twice, she was full on attacked by a miniature schnauzer. While he did not actually physically harm her, she is no longer able to help with my classes as I now have the long and difficult job of desensitizing her to small grey/black dogs. I also own 4 toy breeds, and yes they are every bit as much dogs as my large dog. The owner of the schnauzer was smirking:mad: (he acutally thought it was funny) as I was struggling to keep his dog from biting Sophie and also from being killed by her in the process of defending herself. While he/his dog has been reported, the damage is done. Aggressive small breeds are not in any way, shape or form cute and should not be tollerated by the public any more than a large dog exibiting the same behavior.

Sorry to hear about Sophie...How is she coming along?

You are right that damage can be caused by small dogs...unfortunately when most of the damage is emotional rather than physical the owners seem to think that makes the behavior excusable...which it is not.

[Roxy's CD]

pup-man When you sarcastically post about threads of mine, implying that my dog is aggressive and dangerous you must expect any good dog owner to respond and be "crazy like". Maybe I am on drugs :eek:

HAHA

I agree with whatszmatter in the sense that of course most other smaller breeds won't result in fatalities. But even so, I don't think it makes it alright.

My main problem with the smaller breeds is people think it's "cute". So they do nothing to curb that behaviour. Awww, Look at Tinkerbell, growling and snapping at the dog 10 times her size! What a silly poochie!

I've seen it many times. And commented on the behaviour a couple of times.

In ontario, it's in the judges hands right now. From the court transcripts it sounded as though the judge was not impressed with the prosecutors at all. The judge actually asked, what if we put this through, then what? People who want mean dogs won't go onto other breeds?

And as mentioned BSL does not work. It just plain doesn't. Yes, it seems as though pitbulls stand out among the other breeds for human fatalities.

The gov't put governors on cars because people were driving fast and killing themselves. People still find a way to drive fast.

[LabBreeder]

<sigh>

You have missunderstood the point of this whole thread. For some reason, you just don't get it, I suggest stopping now before you blow a gasket....


Elegy- great post and thank you for pointing out that it is bad ownership, not bad breeds. Pit bulls get bad press because they are whats "hot" right now.

It's also "funny" that 99% dog fights and bites that do get press are pit bulls, when statistics will show that other dogs bite more (try googling before anyone comes after me with "how do you know that").

Roxy, good points, but calm down sweetie :) Don't let others ignorance get you so angry.


Dude, you don't need to tell me to "stop now". You aren't my parents, your Buddy's Parents. I was never mad, upset or anything else. You are going to push me and make me mad by telling me to stop though. I will keep posting until I get a satisfactory response...or until someone see's that I am getting the point I'm elaborating on it. So back off Buddy, I'll talk when and how I want.

Melissa_W - Yes, I get what is being said. You don't seem to be getting that it's not right to drag other breeds into the fray. I understand that it's not the breed it's the breeder/owner...I've already said that. It just makes no sense why you'd want to have every breed that's ever bitten someone plastered in the paper and have the BSL crap done to them as well. If Labs were randomly attacking people as much as pits were then they'd be going through BSL...but that's not the case. Anyone that wants a pit should have to prove they can take care of it and train it properly...just as any other dog. However, pits do have a bad rep that's why they are having to deal with BSL.

As it is, I'm not the one with the 'tude on here...so redirect any insinuations (Buddy's Parents) towards the one's that are actually fighting and arguing over this.

[Buddy'sParents]

But LabBreeder, people HAVE answered.... that's my point! Sheesh... just trying to be helpful.... :rolleyes:

[jess2416]

Yes, I get what is being said. You don't seem to be getting that it's not right to drag other breeds into the fray. I understand that it's not the breed it's the breeder/owner...I've already said that. It just makes no sense why you'd want to have every breed that's ever bitten someone plastered in the paper and have the BSL crap done to them as well. If Labs were randomly attacking people as much as pits were then they'd be going through BSL...but that's not the case. Anyone that wants a pit should have to prove they can take care of it and train it properly...just as any other dog. However, pits do have a bad rep that's why they are having to deal with BSL.

Why not have every breed that has bitten plastered across the news, its only fair...and why not that have BSL for every breed..and make everyone prove themselves to be good and responsible owners before owning *any* breed..

Its only fair, right...If people are going to act a certain way towards one breed they should do it to every breed..

*that above was sarcasm*

Its ridiculous...how people can not see past their own view points to see that its not about dragging other breeds into the spotlight, its about taking *all* breeds out of the spotlight, and making the OWNERS responsible for their dogs actions....

[LabBreeder]

I don't see why you'd want to tell someone to "stop now" when they are on the side of ANTI-BSL. I am all for having potential dog owners show that they can teach basic obedience (or take a class on how to) before getting any breed. If you want to get a "agressive" breed...or one that has had a bad history with a previous owner/breeder...you should be required to have no history of drug use, assault, violence or previous cruelty charges as well as being able to train a dog to behave properly. It would mean more work getting a dog, but it would be worth it if you really wanted him/her.

*edit - I know others have responded, it seems no one see's I'm frickin agreeing with anti BSL (for pits and any other breed)...geez*

[jess2416]

If you want to get a "agressive" breed.

ALL DOGS CAN BE AGGRESSIVE.................

[Buddy'sParents]

Its ridiculous...how people can not see past their own view points to see that its not about dragging other breeds into the spotlight, its about taking *all* breeds out of the spotlight, and making the OWNERS responsible for their dogs actions....



*clap clap clap*

Amen sister!

[LabBreeder]

Apparently Jess doesn't get it either. You'd think since you have recently been denied a dog because of your yard (according to them) that you would see other views as well. I don't want any breed being banned. What part of that are you all not getting? I don't want any breed exterminated. I want potential owners to prove they are responsible when purchasing breeds that have gotten a bad rep in the past.

[Georgygirl]

Well gee, if you don't want labs to be brought into the spotlight then you better talk to those irresponsile lab owners and fix the problem :rolleyes:

Obviously there are cases of labs biting, isn't that a problem? I hate it when people go "well, it isn't my breed getting banned, so to heck with it. Those pitbull owners should get things together". There is a law in an Iowa city that bans breeds over a certain weight. Some of those labs can get pretty big. How would you feel about that? You'd probably be fighting just as hard as the pitty owners to clear your breeds reputation.

[Roxy's CD]

LabBreeder - I think the issue is just not about BSL. But also about how pitts are picked out. If a newstation had a choice between a Shitzu biting a small child or a pitt biting a small child we all know that they would choose the pitt.

It's not about bringing other breeds down, and I definitely don't want any other breeds banned, but it's upsetting how other breeds slip through the cracks when it comes to attacks and pitts get the whole bad rap.

Edit: Georgygirl are you serious? A ban for dogs over a certain weight? You can't be serious???

[Buddy'sParents]

I don't see why you'd want to tell someone to "stop now" when they are on the side of ANTI-BSL.


I didnt say you weren't on the side of anti-bsl, I was trying to be helpful because I could see that you were getting frustrated and I don't want to see this thread closed because people (in general) sometimes can't stop themselves.

We DO see what you have said.. but it appears you still don't understand why the OP started the thread... he/she was not bashing any other breed.

Seems to be a perfectly legit rant because pit bulls are abused so by media and poor ownership and OP was pointing out that ALL breeds have the potential to bite, that's all....

Sorry I was just trying to help...

[LabBreeder]

It's ridiculous how you can gang up on one person cause you refuse to see their point. Go ahead, ban together...I don't care. When pits and other breeds are banned because of dumb owners that can't or won't train them I'm sure you'll be happy. I've more than agreed with everyone on here at in regards to some, or all, of their posts...but you refuse to see what I'm saying.
Yes, all dogs can potentially be agressive...but not all owners/breeders HAVE TO BE STUPID!!! Breed right, train right and socialize.

Yes, pits have a bad rap because they were used for bull fighting, fighting other dogs, drug dealer attack dogs, guard dogs, etc. They have a bad rep as being AGRESSIVE. Hence, my previous post about having owners checked out and trained on training.

[whatszmatter]

Melissa_W If Labs were randomly attacking people as much as pits were then they'd be going through BSL...but that's not the case. Anyone that wants a pit should have to prove they can take care of it and train it properly...just as any other dog. However, pits do have a bad rep that's why they are having to deal with BSL.


I guess media propaganda affects people and they don't even know it. Labs do go around biting people as often or MORE so than pit bulls, cocker spaniels have long been on the top of the list for bites to children, golden retrievers are responsible for maiming and injuring kids and adults at a rate much higher than you'd believe, BUT because of pit bulls being singled out most people never even realize this and that is the point of this whole thread.

by the above post and your comment on "if people want to get an aggressive breed", which seems to me your inferring pit bulls, it seems that you're not seeing the point people are trying to make.

[jess2416]

Apparently Jess doesn't get it either. You'd think since you have recently been denied a dog because of your yard (according to them) that you would see other views as well

Apparently I do get it, and dont you DARE bring that into this :mad:, that has nothing to do with this topic....so why even bring it up...

*clap clap clap*

Amen sister!

Thank you ma'am :)

[LabBreeder]

Well gee, if you don't want labs to be brought into the spotlight then you better talk to those irresponsile lab owners and fix the problem :rolleyes:

Obviously there are cases of labs biting, isn't that a problem? I hate it when people go "well, it isn't my breed getting banned, so to heck with it. Those pitbull owners should get things together". There is a law in an Iowa city that bans breeds over a certain weight. Some of those labs can get pretty big. How would you feel about that? You'd probably be fighting just as hard as the pitty owners to clear your breeds reputation.

Are you really as dense as you are letting on? :rolleyes:
I never said, "it isn't my breed to heck with it". I have said just the opposite. If you want to nit pick what's been said you better get your $h!t together first!
I have had my labs banned for weight where I was living....AFTER we were there for 6 months! It sucked, we moved, it's done. The owners were stupid and decided to change the lease, end of story. I deal with idiots telling me that a Halti is a muzzle and being scared cause one of our Labs is black and has a leather collar...ooooohh, so scary. Just because people are stupid (or don't understand like you) doesn't mean they are right.

[LabBreeder]

Apparently I do get it, and dont you DARE bring that into this, that has nothing to do with this topic....so why even bring it up...

Hey, you wanted to start yelling and trying to make me out to be a bad guy....I'll bring it right back to ya.

[Buddy'sParents]

Apparently Jess doesn't get it either. You'd think since you have recently been denied a dog because of your yard (according to them) that you would see other views as well.


:eek: I can't believe you said that! That was so rude and completely uncalled for.




OMG Jess, I'm soo sorry. :(

[LabBreeder]

I guess media propaganda affects people and they don't even know it. Labs do go around biting people as often or MORE so than pit bulls, cocker spaniels have long been on the top of the list for bites to children, golden retrievers are responsible for maiming and injuring kids and adults at a rate much higher than you'd believe, BUT because of pit bulls being singled out most people never even realize this and that is the point of this whole thread.

by the above post and your comment on "if people want to get an aggressive breed", which seems to me your inferring pit bulls, it seems that you're not seeing the point people are trying to make.

Where did I say "agressive breed" hmmm? Quote that for me.

[whatszmatter]

Apparently I do get it, and dont you DARE bring that into this :mad:, that has nothing to do with this topic....so why even bring it up...



Thank you ma'am :)
I agree that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this topic

[Roxy's CD]

LabBreeder
I don't think anyone's ganging up on you.

As I just said, I don't think any breed should be banned. Although it does seem that a lot of drug dealers, convicts whatever do flock to the pittbull. But is it really the breeds fault? Of course it isn't and we all know that.

Certify the PEOPLE.

whatszmatter that is very true. People have no idea that when they get a family pet, normal family breeds (goldens, labs, cockers) that they are just as prone to be aggressive, if not trained properly. I don't think any breed is fool proof per say.

If people were just generally educated before they got a dog, I'm sure a lot of "family attacks" would decrease in numbers. People would do whatever they could to ensure their families safety as well as the dogs. BUT, when it comes to a lot of the riff raff that have pitts (like drug dealers) because their aim is to have an agressive dog, education I don't think would do anything. Maybe help them to train a more aggressive dog.

[LabBreeder]

You all want to single me out cause I said the owners/breeders were the problem...that it's not right to ban a breed...people should prove they can handle/train them...and why spotlight other breeds that don't have as big a problem or as bad a rep as pits. It seems like even when someone agrees about no BSL that you STILL find a way to attack. Go figure.

[whatszmatter]

I don't see why you'd want to tell someone to "stop now" when they are on the side of ANTI-BSL. I am all for having potential dog owners show that they can teach basic obedience (or take a class on how to) before getting any breed. If you want to get a "agressive" breed...or one that has had a bad history with a previous owner/breeder...you should be required to have no history of drug use, assault, violence or previous cruelty charges as well as being able to train a dog to behave properly. It would mean more work getting a dog, but it would be worth it if you really wanted him/her.

*edit - I know others have responded, it seems no one see's I'm frickin agreeing with anti BSL (for pits and any other breed)...geez*
Is that ok?

[Roxy's CD]

That was a low blow.... totally uncalled for...

Nevermind that Jess... Everyone says things...

[LabBreeder]

LabBreeder
I don't think anyone's ganging up on you.

As I just said, I don't think any breed should be banned. Although it does seem that a lot of drug dealers, convicts whatever do flock to the pittbull. But is it really the breeds fault? Of course it isn't and we all know that.

Certify the PEOPLE.

whatszmatter that is very true. People have no idea that when they get a family pet, normal family breeds (goldens, labs, cockers) that they are just as prone to be aggressive, if not trained properly. I don't think any breed is fool proof per say.

If people were just generally educated before they got a dog, I'm sure a lot of "family attacks" would decrease in numbers. People would do whatever they could to ensure their families safety as well as the dogs. BUT, when it comes to a lot of the riff raff that have pitts (like drug dealers) because their aim is to have an agressive dog, education I don't think would do anything. Maybe help them to train a more aggressive dog.

Why is it that when you say the same thing I say no one has a problem with it?
My problem started with Buddy's Parents telling me to "stop now before I blow a gasket" and I didn't even HAVE a problem then. Since then....well, all of this crap happened.

[~Tucker&Me~]

Wow....

~Tucker

[Roxy's CD]

and why spotlight other breeds that don't have as big a problem or as bad a rep as pits.

This I will dispute. There are a couple of breeds that are notorious for getting old and cranky and mauling the family toddler. To me that is a big problem.

Edit (me slow posting) - No one's disagreeing with the idea of certifying the people. I think the bottom line here is that you feel as though people are attacking your breed. BP and jess don't mean to attack your breed, but other breeds that have cases of attacks also. No one wants any other breeds to be banned, but just perhaps let's get ALL the information out there, just not the horrible terror stories of pitts. Just to show, that pitts aren't the only dogs that can cause damage, or attack or bite or whatever.

[LabBreeder]

Is that ok?


Well, considering agressive breed was in quotes...no, it's not. That's the whole reason for the quotes...meaning, 'so called' agressive breed. I never actually said any breed was agressive...just 'so called' agressive...hence the quotation marks.

[Georgygirl]

No, I'm not dense. Apparently you need to chose your wording a little more carefully because you seem to be annoying many other people besides me. So you're against BSL but you think that all pitbull owners need to be put through training because their breed is inherently agressive. What about the owners of those cockers and other breeds that statistically bite more often than pits. What about those owners? Why do they get off the hook? How about we enforce the laws we ALREADY have? let's not target a certain breed but target a certain group of people, like the irresponsible owners of ALL the different dog breeds.

[whatszmatter]

Nobody is on your case for being anti BSL, but in your very first post, it was very stand offish towards Elegy asking him what his/her point was?? It wasn't even directed at me and I read it like, that was a little uncalled for.

Since then you've tried to bring this around to everyone trying to bring every other breed down as well, but nobody has ever taken that position. Others are simply trying to point out the original intention of the thread and you keep trying to turn it into something else.

[LabBreeder]

This I will dispute. There are a couple of breeds that are notorious for getting old and cranky and mauling the family toddler. To me that is a big problem.

But, according to everyone else on here, every breed has that potential. If you mean a specific breed that actually has those tendencies listed in it's profile, then the owner should be aware of that before they purchase or adopt the breed. If it happens after the fact then it's still the owners fault.

[Buddy'sParents]

LabBreeder-

You continuely banter people, you are rude and you are so ruthless in your posts sometimes that you can hurt people's feelings...

What you said to Jess was completely uncalled for and you should apologize to her. I can not believe you would even bring that up, when all Jess was trying to do was show you the points in which the OP tried to make.

I have seen TOO many threads get closed because you can't handle some topics. I stepped in (now, I am very sorry I did) because I thought I could help you calm down before you blew up, but you did anyway. I suggest taking a deep breath and re-read this entire thread before you chose to say anything else. You will find that no one has singled you out, only tried to help you understand where the OP was coming from.

[Roxy's CD]

Georgygirl To me the difference between the attacks is very clear:

With labs, goldens, cockers (usually family pets) it's lack of knowledge.

With pitts, (of course owners that WANT a mean dog, like drug dealers, they seem to come up a lot but in my town the two go hand in hand) it's not lack of knowledge but more along the lines of wanting an aggressive animal.

Of course I'm not saying that everyone that owns a pittbull is a drug dealer, but for the ones that aren't, that's what this is about! The responsible owners of pitts get grouped with the irresponsible.

[LabBreeder]

No, I'm not dense. Apparently you need to chose your wording a little more carefully because you seem to be annoying many other people besides me. So you're against BSL but you think that all pitbull owners need to be put through training because their breed is inherently agressive. What about the owners of those cockers and other breeds that statistically bite more often than pits. What about those owners? Why do they get off the hook? How about we enforce the laws we ALREADY have? let's not target a certain breed but target a certain group of people, like the irresponsible owners of ALL the different dog breeds.

I didn't say all pitbull owners. I believe I said anyone that wants to get a breed with a bad rap (yes, pits are included) or one that's had a bad history, should be put through training.

If statistics say that another breed is more apt to bite without being properly trained, then people that want to purchase those breeds should also be put through a "how to train dogs" guide and an "understanding your breed" seminar before buying them.
If the laws we already had were enforced I wouldn't be having problems with 2 loose and agressive doxies and a mix breed running around terrorizing neighborhood dogs and kids that ARE following the rules.

[pup-man]

WOW!

I leave for an hour and the spot light has moved on to another member. I'll just sit here and enjoy the fireworks. :)

[Buddy'sParents]

WOW!

I leave for an hour and the spot light has moved on to another member. I'll just sit here and enjoy the fireworks. :)


I've got some popcorn and lemonade :) Interested?

[JennSLK]

You all want to single me out cause I said the owners/breeders were the problem...that it's not right to ban a breed...people should prove they can handle/train them...and why spotlight other breeds that don't have as big a problem or as bad a rep as pits


For starters 99% of the people on this forum think the owners are the problem

Secondly. HOW DARE YOU! You could NOT have said a more rude and insesitive thing towards Jess.

Im with BP in her last post. You need to calm down!

[LabBreeder]

Nobody is on your case for being anti BSL, but in your very first post, it was very stand offish towards Elegy asking him what his/her point was?? It wasn't even directed at me and I read it like, that was a little uncalled for.

Since then you've tried to bring this around to everyone trying to bring every other breed down as well, but nobody has ever taken that position. Others are simply trying to point out the original intention of the thread and you keep trying to turn it into something else.

I explained my first post already. All I saw were a bunch of sites about other breeds biting and a sarcastic title. There was no question, statement or anything. It could very well have been another attempt at starting an argument so I wanted to know what the point was before anything else.

Well, when people keep posting about other breeds doing the same thing, but not saying what could be done other than, make sure all bites get as much exposure as a pit...it seems bashy.
I mean, does everyone in here agree that pits shouldn't be banned? That no breed should be banned? That owners and breeders should take responsiblity for their dogs and train them (regardless of their breed)?

[Roxy's CD]

I could get fired up again about the comments you made to me... But I know they're not true :D

LabBreeder, I agree unfortuantely that pitts do attract a "crowd". A "crowd" that has doomed the breed.

Definitely by having to be certified to own certain breeds it would scare off most if not ALL of the people who would not be dedicated to proper training. I would have no problem with having to get certified to own a specific breed if it was what I truly thought would be a great addition to my family. Also, if it would help the breed generally.

[corsomom]

The op was trying to make a point, and I think a very good one. No one is trying to drag other breeds down, Labbreeder, I dont know why you dont get that. and I do think that was a completely uncalled for remark to Jess.

[LabBreeder]

LabBreeder-

You continuely banter people, you are rude and you are so ruthless in your posts sometimes that you can hurt people's feelings...

What you said to Jess was completely uncalled for and you should apologize to her. I can not believe you would even bring that up, when all Jess was trying to do was show you the points in which the OP tried to make.

I have seen TOO many threads get closed because you can't handle some topics. I stepped in (now, I am very sorry I did) because I thought I could help you calm down before you blew up, but you did anyway. I suggest taking a deep breath and re-read this entire thread before you chose to say anything else. You will find that no one has singled you out, only tried to help you understand where the OP was coming from.

Buddy, when you are the only one having something said to you...before anything happened btw...it escalates. Nothing was wrong. I was having fun with this thread. No one was being bashed or turning against anyone or anything else. If it hadn't been for your post (unfortunately) I would have read through the pages since my last post, said something to Roxy about her being understandably angry at someone jumping her personally, and that would have been it.

[whatszmatter]

ok,, i'm going to take one last bang against the wall here,

I am NOT BASHING other breeds to bring it to the same level as a pit bull. The ORIGINAL intent was to show that all other breeds in the hands of irresponsible owners are just as capable of causing harm to others. That was the point, is the point, and will always be the point.

This whole thread has never had anything to do with bashing other breeds.

[Georgygirl]

And whose going to enfoce these new laws for bad rap breeds? The same people that don't enforce the laws we already have? In theory its a good idea labreeder and personally I think ALL new dog owners should have to take a little seminar or class but in reality it isn't practical. I'm going to go cool off, I think your heart is in the right place labreeder and I'm sorry for getting so upset with you. I get very passionate about this subect and I need to realize that everyone has a right to their own opinion.

[~Tucker&Me~]

I think everyone heart is in the right place, but no one is seeing at the same level.
Mods...?

~Tucker

[LabBreeder]

Jess - I do agree that I need to apologize. It was a very low blow and was said out of anger. Not necessarily anger towards you either. You are a good person and I shouldn't have brought Charlie into this. So, I do sincerely apologize for that remark.


*To everyone else - please don't make snide remarks or rude replies. This apology is in here and for Jess to see and respond to because it's where it happened. I would have PM'd but that would have been to personal and this needs to be a public apology to Jess.*

[Buddy'sParents]

Buddy, when you are the only one having something said to you...before anything happened btw...it escalates. Nothing was wrong. I was having fun with this thread. No one was being bashed or turning against anyone or anything else. If it hadn't been for your post (unfortunately) I would have read through the pages since my last post, said something to Roxy about her being understandably angry at someone jumping her personally, and that would have been it.


Unfortunately, that's not true. But what do I know? I've only had threads that have been closed because of you and I was trying to stop that. I apologize for trying to help you. I'll go to my corner now.

Please apologize to Jess. She may or may not accept it but it's worth the effort. I think you may even agree that that post you made was unacceptable.

I'm done with the thread. Thanks again, Elegy for making a great point.

[jess2416]

Thank you for the apology...I am done with this thread....

[LabBreeder]

ok,, i'm going to take one last bang against the wall here,

I am NOT BASHING other breeds to bring it to the same level as a pit bull. The ORIGINAL intent was to show that all other breeds in the hands of irresponsible owners are just as capable of causing harm to others. That was the point, is the point, and will always be the point.

This whole thread has never had anything to do with bashing other breeds.

lol...sorry, not laughing at you, really...laughing at how this went nuts is all. I never said you were bashing, just bashy...a difference, really. I agree that any breed with an irresponsible owner (or bad breeder) can cause harm. I've got 2 doxies doing the same where I live.

Points have been taken, bad blows have been dealt...can we continue normally?

[Roxy's CD]

Unfortuantely the idea isn't very reasonable. But I think it's better than genecide for "aggressive breeds".

[~Tucker&Me~]

Jess - I do agree that I need to apologize. It was a very low blow and was said out of anger. Not necessarily anger towards you either. You are a good person and I shouldn't have brought Charlie into this. So, I do sincerely apologize for that remark.

That was very maturely said. Props to you :).

~Tucker

[LabBreeder]

Really Jess...I'm sorry. I even tried to help by sending an email to those evil nasty SPCA people...you read it, you know. God, I'm really sorry. Barring all the other crap that was said to everyone else...I shouldn't have said that to you. :(

[jess2416]

Really Jess...I'm sorry. I even tried to help by sending an email to those evil nasty SPCA people...you read it, you know. God, I'm really sorry. Barring all the other crap that was said to everyone else...I shouldn't have said that to you. :(

I know you did, and I thanked you for that..

[LabBreeder]

Unfortunately, that's not true. But what do I know? I've only had threads that have been closed because of you and I was trying to stop that. I apologize for trying to help you. I'll go to my corner now.

Please apologize to Jess. She may or may not accept it but it's worth the effort. I think you may even agree that that post you made was unacceptable.

I'm done with the thread. Thanks again, Elegy for making a great point.


Buddy...I know this already. I was there, remember?:) :(
I even requested one or two be closed that I started. It's not the trying to help part that was wrong...that I appreciate. It was just at a wrong time, IMO of course. I swear I was totally good til that point.
Btw, I did apologize...and you're right. It was unacceptable.

[LabBreeder]

I know Jess...I know.

Still sorry though. About all of it.

[pup-man]

......

[LabBreeder]

You know the really bad thing! :eek: Others are going to come on, read a few posts, and it might start again cause they won't finish it. Unless something is directed AT me, I will soooo leave that alone. Unless it really hurts someone, then I guess we'd all jump in to help?

[Roxy's CD]

LOL.. THat's soo true!!!

*gets ready*

[filarotten]

Wow! I'm going to grab a beer now.

You know people talk about aggressive dogs, protective dogs, biting dogs, whatever, but I have noticed repeatedly that humans are the main aggressors. Just look at this thread. Mud is slinging, and hurtful, unnecessary snide remarks have been spoken. I'm sure if it was possible, some of you would be duking it out. hangs head in shame to be a human.

AND WE WONDER WHY THE HELL THERE IS BSL! IT IS ALL BECAUSE OF HUMANS, NOT DOGS. Think about it people, before your next post.

Not one of you has every mentioned that often kids, or adults will antagonize a well trained dog to the point of attacking. That seems to be overlooked, or what about the criminal that jumps the fence and gets bit. Is that aggression, no that is protection. yet it is the dogs fault, not the human perpetrator.

[JennSLK]

Here's an idea about an alternitive to BSL

The HS should come into everyone's home, evaluate the living situations and the temperment of the dogs. If they are found to be poor then those people should be banished to a private island and never allowed to leave it.

There problem sloved and we cal all go back to our normal lives. ;)

[Roxy's CD]

LMAO. A private island!?!? I love it.

filarotten I very well could've been one of those on drugs crazy lady duking it out! LMAO

You're totally right though, protecting and just plain old aggression get messed up. But, of course, that never comes out. Any dog that bites is bad. Now as usual I have nothing to back this statement up (LMAO) but I did hear this. That a burgular broke into someone's house and the dog bit them the burgular, yes the criminal could sue.

Why is that?

[LabBreeder]

I figure if you break into my home you deserve whatever you get.
Isn't there a law that says if you shoot a criminal while they are in your home, facing you and not trying to run, that it's self defense. But if you shoot them in the back as they are fleeing your home or your property that you could get in trouble cause they were leaving.

Why can't we apply that to dog bites? :) If a dog bites you anywhere on the front of your body, it's protecting it's home from an intruder (assuming it is a burglar and not a kid over to play) but if they bite them in the butt or while they are running they have to be sent to obedience school...or guard dog attack school...or something (but not pts cause they were protecting the home either way)

*meant to be a humorous, yet thought provoking statement. not necessarily an idea*

[whatszmatter]

LMAO. A private island!?!? I love it.

filarotten I very well could've been one of those on drugs crazy lady duking it out! LMAO

You're totally right though, protecting and just plain old aggression get messed up. But, of course, that never comes out. Any dog that bites is bad. Now as usual I have nothing to back this statement up (LMAO) but I did hear this. That a burgular broke into someone's house and the dog bit them the burgular, yes the criminal could sue.

Why is that?
that depends on the state, I was just reading thru WI dog law and if someone enters your house without consent and gets bit, you're not liable. I forgot the case that set the precedent, but one involved a neighbor that come over to get something, and their child went into the other room and the dog bit the kid. They tried to sue, but didn't win.

On other hands though WI dog laws are very open to interpretation and it seems some people have even gone so far as to argue that a puppy chewing up a sofa was grounds for prior knowledge of being viscious and suing under the double penalty clause that allows you to collect double the damages if a dog is know to be aggressive or has in the past caused damage to humans or property, in this case the prior damage was done to a sofa. How crazy is that?? i'm sure the law was written to protect others animals, livestock and dogs that chew up others wooden fences and such, but some interpret it as chewing a sofa as a puppy is prior damage and they're entitled to double damages later:confused:

[LabBreeder]

Oh, yes, humans are WAY more agressive, mean, hurtful and willing to fight than any animal (wild or domestic). It's a combo of free will and the consequences involved IMO. ;)

[filarotten]

I can tell you this... when Roxie was almost a year old. I was home alone taking a shower, she was going nuts; lunging at the window, and on a ballistic rampage. I got out of the shower, tried to get on my robe. There was a man standing on our deck. He had climbed our fence.

Before I could get the door open, she jumped thru the window after him. He beat her over the fence before she could grab him.

Now would you consider that aggression? No that was protection. He was in her territory, behind her fence, on the deck and I was alone. Thank god she was ok.

[Red_ACD_for_me]

I can tell you this... when Roxie was almost a year old. I was home alone taking a shower, she was going nuts; lunging at the window, and on a b