"Pit bull apologists, wake up"

[Kathy29]

This article makes me MAD :mad:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/07/06/BAG0C7H3811.DTL

In the meantime, if you encounter a pit bull or a rottweiler, keep an eye on it no matter how often its owner says it is the sweetest little pup you've ever seen. That's especially true if it is a "rehabilitated'' dog, which has supposedly had its breeding curbed by good training.

"Rehabilitated,'' says Gamez, "means it hasn't bitten anyone lately.''

[Roxy's CD]

I could be angry, but I know that would do absolutely nothing.

I've got a rott and a pitt. I guess they're both doomed to be horrible, aggressive, mean, violent animals. *sigh* What ever am I to do?

What was I saying? Sorry, Hades distracted me by whining to be cuddled. And Roxy's busy suckling on a pillow, I hate it when she does that! Oh yes, my dogs are probably going to become horrible, ill mannered animals. There's no use in training them, or socializing them it's just their fate.

Maybe I should get a pug instead, this way, if it ever bites anyone, it won't get reported and nothing will be said because the damage will be so little. Yep, that's the way to go.....

[JennSLK]

Well I started off reading the article intent on trying to see the writer's point of veiw untill this comment

"You can't make a German shepherd stop herding,'' says Merritt Clifton, editor of the Washington-based Animal People magazine. "You can't make a Chihuahua stop barking.

Right then and there the writer lost all creditability.


"They don't growl,'' says Gamez, who was also part of the team investigating the Shawn Jones mauling case in Richmond. "It usually just comes right after you. These dogs can just go off. And when they do, they cause tremendous damage.''

Yes they jus sit there happy and can be and then WHAM they snap. No warning no signs at all. :rolleyes:

[~Tucker&Me~]

*Sigh*

It suprises me that humans have flourished when we appear to be complete idiots half the time.

~Tucker

[iheartsammy]

OMG! thats just disgusting! I was playing with Pit Bull at the park tonight who was Rehabilated from dog fighing as a (very little!) puppy, poor thing! It had scares and such..And It was the happiest dog ever! there was even other dogs at the park and it didn't even bother them! There was kids hanging off him and everything!

After reading that I was about to Email the guy, but I wasn't sure what to say. People like that don't sway so easily, besides argueing isn't really going to help..

[iheartsammy]

I was once wathing this thing about pit bulls on Animal Planet, and there was this lady that ran a pit bull rescue with her mom. She said after a few years they started to take all kinds of dogs, and she's been bit many times my tiny dogs and a few times by some other large breeds, but never a pit bull. It was a great show for pit bull education...I tried to get my mom to watch it but she was sleeping...lol

[casablanca1]

It's called backlash, and some of it is justified.

"It is at this point that everyone starts yelling at each other and pointing fingers. My pit bull, someone says, plays with my children every day. He's the cutest, most affectionate pet we've ever had. Pits are no more aggressive or dangerous than beagles. That's not true. According to a study by the U. S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, covering the years between 1979 and 1994, pit bulls were involved in 57 fatal attacks -- well over twice the number for the next breed on the list, rottweilers, with 19, and more than German shepherds (17), huskies (12) and malamutes (12) combined. A 2000 study by the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association concluded that pit bulls "were involved in 65 fatal attacks between 1979 and 1998 ... twice that of rottweilers and more than three times German shepherds.''

That much is true, and very, very disturbing.

But that's just part of the story. If you've been to an animal shelter lately, you know that it seems like half the dogs there are pit bulls. Naively, our family thought that was because families were not adopting them. Actually, it is the result of a population boom in pit bulls. ..

I was at my county shelter this weekend, and I think there were 5 dogs out of maybe 50 that weren't pits, pit mixes or Rottweilers.

it is important to report incidents of menacing or intimidating behavior by dogs in your neighborhood to animal control.

That much would do a lot to prevent serious attacks. Too many people downplay the 'learning' bites that typically precede a dangerous bite.

In the meantime, if you encounter a pit bull or a rottweiler, keep an eye on it no matter how often its owner says it is the sweetest little pup you've ever seen. That's especially true if it is a "rehabilitated'' dog, which has supposedly had its breeding curbed by good training.

There's your backlash. It's anger, and it's being generated by the 'my way or the highway' attitude pit people have toward their issue. Any suggestion that pits are more dangerous than other breeds is dismissed with scorn and ridicule, leaving many people with no place to go if they have seen a pit bull attack or have reservations about the CDC stats, but are unwilling to say "ban them all." If the pro-pit, anti-BSL crowd keeps to the current attitude that the only reason for the fighting breeds' reputation is that the rest of us don't love them enough, they're ignoring the fact that as the breeds become more common, more and more people are going to witness an attack by one - yes, one that's undoubtedly badly owned and handled, but still, one that makes it clear that an attack by a pit bull is not equal to an attack by a Cocker Spaniel or a Labrador. When a critical mass has been reached of people who have first-hand experience of a bad pit bull, then you're going to see real problems erupting between dog people and everyone else - and between dog people.

[dr2little]

OMG! thats just disgusting! I was playing with Pit Bull at the park tonight who was Rehabilated from dog fighing as a (very little!) puppy, poor thing! It had scares and such..And It was the happiest dog ever! there was even other dogs at the park and it didn't even bother them! There was kids hanging off him and everything!

After reading that I was about to Email the guy, but I wasn't sure what to say. People like that don't sway so easily, besides argueing isn't really going to help..

This dog who was a rehab. from fighting as a puppy, what were the circumstances? I'm confused, was he just the pup of a dog in a fight ring or were you told he was somehow involved?

[Roxy's CD]

I think the reason a lot of pitts end up in shelters is the people that orginally owned them didn't read up about the breed. Same as if they got a Border Collie and didn't read that they were very high energy animals.

It's just that soo many people want a pitbull and don't bother to do the research. With Rottweilers, a lot of people want them (there is an unheard of amount of them in my city) and they don't realize that they're a big dog! And with big dogs asserting your leadership in a confident, non-physical way when they're pups is imparative. Because once their full grown if you haven't figured out who the leader is, it's probably not going to be you!

I see so many people with pittbulls and rotts, that I speak to when I'm walking my dogs around town. It scares me how uneducated they really are about the breed, or with pitbulls about the ban. While speaking to one lady I told her that she'd better get a muzzle for her pup, if not and someone reports it, they can enter your home without a search warrant, take your pup and euthanize it. Just like that. No if's and's or but's. She was dumfounded. So was I....

I fought with another lady who had a Rott who said that her dog developed HD when he was 8 years old. I said that isn't possible, maybe arthritis but not HD. If a dog has HD you can see on an x-ray by 2 years old. She also told me that when he was a pup he wasn't socialized with other dogs, and now, that he's older and he should be fine with them, he's CRAZY! He pulls her all over the place and tries to kill the other dog, it's just wild.

I think people see these specific breeds and say "I want that one". They don't read about them. They don't ever really plan on training them. And because their a pet they don't ever really think about leadership. It's just a pet, not a show dog, why do I have to "assert dominance"?

I think anyone who gets a dog should have to take a course of obedience lessons. At least one, to show the basics of being a good leader for your dog and what the positive consequences are. Than we might not have so many "yahoos" out there trying to naively train a pittbull to attack, or not socializing a rott because they think when he gets older he'll be fine.

[Brattina88]

:( I feel like we (as dog lovers) are losing this battle...
I feel like BSL and people who don't have a clue is everywhere :eek:
What can we do ???


I saw on TV a couple nights ago where a child's face was ripped open by a pit. The mom admitted she wasn't watching her daughter as she went next door and was trying to ride the dog like a horse. I thought she was going to be charged for child endangerment. The judge charged the owner of the dog (even though the dog was chained on his property) and now the dog has to wear a muzzle every time its outside.
What irritated me the most was the judge was going to let the mom off; until he found out they had a pit bull too! He scolded her and said she should get rid of it, when she said she couldn't - he was part of the family the judge convienently charged her with chld endargerment on the case.

If I got bit by the GSD down the road, and the judge said something to me about having Missy, I'd be p.od!

[Amstaffer]

Pit Bulls and Rotts are given up by people more often because (at least in my city) because the people who are most often drawn to them are usually less commited to dogs as family members, want tough guard dogs and are disappointed when they aren't, or are just plain shallow idiots. There is a huge population of people in the inner city that have no clue how to take care of a dog (or themselves), so they get a puppy and get bored or disillusioned.

Casablanca.... You seem frustrated that us "pit bull lovers" won't face the "facts". Why is it so hard for you to admit the FACT that it is the fault of humans and that we must hold the PEOPLE accountable. Everyone knows you attack a problem at its root cause not at the result!

As far as the rest of the article, this is the email I sent off to him.

CW Nevius,
Pit Bull Haters Wake Up! I am glad you took the time to fairly look at the issue from both sides.(/sarcasm off)

I have one question to ask you and if you (or your fellow Pit Bull haters) can answer it logically I will join your slander campaign.

If the Pit Bull (which includes as many as 25 different breeds...did you know that?) is inherently a killer that can't be trusted...why is it that all over America and several other countries do you find Pit Bulls in Confirmation shows with 50+ intact males (supposedly most dangerous) walking among children, small dogs, elderly people and other strangers and yet you NEVER have attacks?

Everytime you have a Pit Bull attack it usually a combination of abused, neglected and poorly bred dogs. All three of those are the fault of the owners.

You are part of this "People are Victims movement". Oh my, people can never be at fault. If you saw the terrible abuse and neglect this wonderful breed goes through you would wonder why they don't attack more often.

Another question...Why didn't Pit Bulls every attack anyone before the 1980s? I'll tell you why...it is because Thugs and Drug dealers started breeding and using them for drug house guards and status symbols. Once again it is the HUMAN's fault not the dog.

The logic you use of generalizations and stereotypes is the exact same that is used to justify racism. Shame on you! Your words will be used to justify the killing of many wonderful pets. Please do some more investigating before you write you articles.

[JennSLK]

Nice e-mail. Let us know if you get a reply

[Georgygirl]

It probably doesn't help that pit bulls are so cheap to buy. I know if I look in my paper I can find adds for pit bulls going for $150-$300. I cringe whenever I see those ads because I can imagine the kind of people who end up with those puppies. Someone gets one for a cheap guard dog, then gets rid of it because it doesn't do the job. Another person buys one only to find out that their apartment doesn't allow so called "dangerous breeds" and they have to get rid of their new puppy. Then of course there's the scum of the earth looking for a dog to fight. Now who's the responsible party in all these circumstances? The irrespnonsible and uneducated owner. And the puppies are the victims. It just makes you want to cry.

[Roxy's CD]

Graet e-mail. As jen said let us know if you actually get a reply. Also I believe that was written in 2004.. kind of old.

[casablanca1]

Casablanca.... You seem frustrated that us "pit bull lovers" won't face the "facts". Why is it so hard for you to admit the FACT that it is the fault of humans and that we must hold the PEOPLE accountable. Everyone knows you attack a problem at its root cause not at the result!

Since we never agree on this topic, I've stopped commenting on your posts. I'd appreciate it if you'd do the same for me.

[Tyson N' Lady]

what the ****!?
that is just discusting!
grrr...makes me mad!

[Amstaffer]

Since we never agree on this topic, I've stopped commenting on your posts. I'd appreciate it if you'd do the same for me.

I will always respond when anyone comments on this topic because it is very near and dear to my heart.

I mean no disrespect to you or your feeling but I think to remain silent is imply agreement or acceptance.



If I get a reply I will make sure to post it!

[rottiegirl]

Well I started off reading the article intent on trying to see the writer's point of veiw untill this comment



Right then and there the writer lost all creditability.




Yes they jus sit there happy and can be and then WHAM they snap. No warning no signs at all. :rolleyes:
actually, pit bulls were bred to be quiet and not to growl when they are attacking and fighting. That way people can get away with dog fighting, because nobody can hear it.

It depends on different blood lines, and individual pit bulls, but they tend to be quiet during an attack.

I am sure there are other warning signs though. Dogs dont attack for no reason...

[Amstaffer]

Pit Bulls are quieter than most breeds. Pit Bull don't give as much warning before they strike. But they do growl when they get mad just like any other dog.

[Roxy's CD]

Pittbulls are quieter in the sense that they don't bark at people.

I believe that it was said on this forum that pittbulls were bred to be dog aggressive not human aggressive so as a result they are horrible guard dogs.

I agree with that statement fully. Hades is quiet in the sense, that if someone is by our house, or walking by, he could care less, so doesn't make any noise.

Maybe as a vast majority pittbulls are quieter before they attack, but I've seen many a pitt cause a ruckus at just the sight of another dog. Barking/snarling/growling lunging... I think the "quiet" pittbulls are the ones that have been beaten for showing their dislike or discomfort with something.

[Amstaffer]

I think the "quiet" pittbulls are the ones that have been beaten for showing their dislike or discomfort with something.

I am not sure how you meant that but I know my dogs have no clue what a beating is and both are quiet ( I assume you didn't mean my dogs).

Sal and Athena do get very excited at the sight of another dog but they don't bark or growl. They just perk up and stare intensely and dart back and forth.

Sal only makes noise when left alone in a car (winter time) and I walk into a store. I literally can't make him bark. Athena barks when someone knocks on the door or if she hears my car or my wifes car...then she whines and cries as if she does know what a beating is...lol

[Roxy's CD]

No I didn't mean your dogs! LOL, I meant the dogs that ATTACK and are quiet.

You were discussing how pitts were quiet when they attack, I don't think your dogs have every attacked anyone quietly. LOL. I just think it's unnatural for a dog to attack and not make any noise, although of course there are breeds like that.

I said Hades is quiet as well, especially when it comes to people. He could care less if someone banged on the door or was in our front yard. He wouldn't make a sound. Not because I beat him, but because as I mentioned, pitts aren't bred to be human aggressive. Now he whines and whimpers for attention, but he doesn't bark. And if he does, he's usually playing with Roxy or "protecting" us from Roxy.. LOL, when we rough house with her.

I agree from my personal experience with a pitt that they are quiet. The statement I don't believe truly is that pitts are quiet when they attack. Those animals I believe have been beaten to "perform" quietly. As I said any pittbull I've ever seen that looks like it's about to attack another dog has been more than loud and obnoxious.

[elegy]

There's your backlash. It's anger, and it's being generated by the 'my way or the highway' attitude pit people have toward their issue. Any suggestion that pits are more dangerous than other breeds is dismissed with scorn and ridicule, leaving many people with no place to go if they have seen a pit bull attack or have reservations about the CDC stats, but are unwilling to say "ban them all." If the pro-pit, anti-BSL crowd keeps to the current attitude that the only reason for the fighting breeds' reputation is that the rest of us don't love them enough, they're ignoring the fact that as the breeds become more common, more and more people are going to witness an attack by one - yes, one that's undoubtedly badly owned and handled, but still, one that makes it clear that an attack by a pit bull is not equal to an attack by a Cocker Spaniel or a Labrador. When a critical mass has been reached of people who have first-hand experience of a bad pit bull, then you're going to see real problems erupting between dog people and everyone else - and between dog people.

don't you think that maybe a lot of the "chip on the shoulder" or whatever you want to call it of the pit bull community is utter frustration? it gets wearing to not be able to walk your perfectly friendly, responsibly owned dog on the street without people jerking their children away and crossing the street, without the peanut gallery making comments about "those kind of dogs"? it gets wearing to know that your dog gets no leeway and that you get no second chances as a dog owner, regardless of the behavior of your own dog, that you may wake up one day to find your dog has been banned even though you've done nothing wrong.

the anti-bsl faction does not, generally, feel that the public needs to "love the ______ breed more", it generally contends that the responsibility lies on the owner and that it's not the breed but the deed. that all dogs bite, that many dogs can be dangerous, and that the law should view the dogs as DOGS not as their breed.

the fact of the matter is that there ARE no good statistics on dog bites. the CDC stats have been extrapolated so far as to be utterly ridiculous. your chances of being killed by a dog in the united states are lower than your chances of being killed by a cow.

there are some really interesting books out there worth reading- one is fatal dog attacks by karen delise, dogs bite but balloons and slippers are more dangerous by janis bradley, and though it has nothing at all to do with dogs, the culture of fear: why americans are afraid of the wrong things by barry glassner.

[casablanca1]

the CDC stats have been extrapolated so far as to be utterly ridiculous. your chances of being killed by a dog in the united states are lower than your chances of being killed by a cow.

Not to be a wet blanket, but that's kind of A) ironic, what with the whole thing about cows being a case of stats used inanely, and b) clearly going by the no doubt enormous number of dairy and beef cattle in the US, but ignoring the fact that mostly, cows don't interact with the average American on a regular basis.

[Sweet72947]

Suppose every "pit-type" dog is muzzled in public, or simply wiped off the face of the Earth. Will this stop dog bites/attacks? Logically, no. Dog bites and attacks will continue to happen as long as there are dogs on the planet Earth. The only way to prevent dogs from ever biting another person again is to wipe every one of them from the face of the Earth. No dogs = no bites. However, I don't beleive that will happen any time soon (nor do I want it to!!).

People need to stop arguing about which breeds are more dangerous than others and start looking for real solutions to agression problems. Targeting specific breeds does nothing. As long as there are dogs, and irresponsible or ignorant dog owners, there will be bites.

[Roxy's CD]

The funny thing is though, here in Ontario, Canada it was brought up in court that regardless of banning pittbulls people that want aggressive dogs are just going to move onto another breed. Like Rotts or GSD's. Banning pitts doesn't solve the problem.

Now, having to certify people to have dogs. That would solve the problem. Than the riff raff that wants aggressive animals wouldn't be able to have a dog. Period.

[rottiegirl]

Pittbulls are quieter in the sense that they don't bark at people.

I believe that it was said on this forum that pittbulls were bred to be dog aggressive not human aggressive so as a result they are horrible guard dogs.

I agree with that statement fully. Hades is quiet in the sense, that if someone is by our house, or walking by, he could care less, so doesn't make any noise.

Maybe as a vast majority pittbulls are quieter before they attack, but I've seen many a pitt cause a ruckus at just the sight of another dog. Barking/snarling/growling lunging... I think the "quiet" pittbulls are the ones that have been beaten for showing their dislike or discomfort with something.
That is false. When I go for walks in my neighborhood, most of the pits go off when I walk by their house. They bark like crazy. Thats just my experience...

[Roxy's CD]

That's your personal experience but the basis of the breed is they were bred to be dog fighters. Not human fighters. They were bred to love people so during a fight if a person intervened the dog wouldn't attack them.

This actually happened 2 months ago in a nearby town. Two pitts were fighting at a park and a 73 year old woman broke the dog fight up, not a scratch on her.

[elegy]

the CDC stats have been extrapolated so far as to be utterly ridiculous. your chances of being killed by a dog in the united states are lower than your chances of being killed by a cow.

Not to be a wet blanket, but that's kind of A) ironic, what with the whole thing about cows being a case of stats used inanely, and b) clearly going by the no doubt enormous number of dairy and beef cattle in the US, but ignoring the fact that mostly, cows don't interact with the average American on a regular basis.

um, that was kind of the point. it's ridiculous.

would you prefer the statistic that more people are killed by falling coconuts than by dogs? or in falls from horses? smaller populations of people coming in contact with them, but more deaths. ban coconuts?!

how about more people are severely injured by their kitchen furniture resulting in longer hospital stays and higher payments from insurance companies than by dogs as an entire species? i'm pretty sure most people come in contact with kitchen furniture on a regular basis.

all these statistics are dumb. clearly kitchen tables aren't dangerous. coconuts aren't dangerous. cows aren't particularly dangerous.

and yet pit bulls, for some reason, are?

[GSDlover_4ever]

Casablanca- what is it with you and pits. Give it a break already, sheesh. :rolleyes:

The article was so rediculous. He received a nice (:rolleyes: ) email from me. I know its old but hey, it doesnt hurt.

[casablanca1]

GSDlover - why are you so unhappy that I may not share your opinions on this issue?

[GSDlover_4ever]

I apologize to everyone else for my behavior in my previous thread, but that person is working my nerve.