choc. Lab Mix jumped Korean woman

[LabBreeder]

Read the article and see what you think.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13362079/

[SummerRiot]

There is honestly no excuse for any dog who attacks a person.

I like how the owner says "hes not normally like that"... perhaps this dog just wasn't socialized with strangers very well, perhaps that dog thought that the passerby was "invading his property" and tried to protect.

Still, no excuse for the actions.

[Serena]

Koco's owner doesn't know why her beloved pet attacked the woman. For some reason, she said, he felt threatened or he was protecting her nieces who had taken him for a walk - against the family rules. She wasn't home at the time.

It sounds to me like the owner is making excuses when the blame is squarely on her shoulders...from what the article said nothing the woman did indicated anything to give reason for the dog to view her as a threat.

A well supervised and trained dog does not attack someone passing by, unless of course the dog is seriously ill and in that case a full exam is necessary to rule out medical conditions.

I have my suspicions that this is a case of a dog not being properly trained and supervised nothing more.

And whats with even mentioning that her nieces took the dog out against the family rules? Trying to blame children now? How about being a responsible adult? Leaving an eight year old and two six year olds alone and unsupervised and not thinking they won't get into something? Give me a break.

I am sorry the woman had to be attacked.

I am sorry that if anyone will have to suffer the consequences it will be the dog.

I am sorry that stupid irresponsible people are allowed to have pets.

[casablanca1]

The dog needs to be euthanized. It's attacked another dog and a person, and it bit the person in the neck. Clearly, the owners shouldn't be allowed to keep it and it would be an immoral waste of time and effort to rehome the dog. There are plenty of homeless dogs who haven't shown such aggression.

[Meggie]

You know, there's just so much wrong there that it's difficult to comment. I can't say whether the dog should be put to sleep or not because there really isn't enough information on what happened or the history of the dog. If it stays with it's present owners I can see nothing but grief coming their way. Rehoming it isn't going to benefit anybody, just move the problem out of sight, out of mind, to a different county.

"Ji, a diabetic, was out for a walk at about 10 a.m. Sunday, when Koco on a leash came out of his house with three nieces of his owner, an 8-year-old and two 6-year-olds." Ummmm, and where the heck was the responsible adult?

"Koco was locked up at the King County Animal Control shelter in Kent, under a 10-day quarantine that will determine whether he's rabid. Officials are expected to announce his fate today." A fine example of responsible dog ownership, no shots?

".... or he was protecting her nieces who had taken him for a walk - against the family rules." Uh, yeah. Blame an 8 year old and two 6 year olds....

"She said Koco, whom she considers her baby and not a dog, does not deserve to die. She also expressed her sorrow for Ji." Argh, that drives me batty. I have two kids who I'm raising to be good members of the human race. I have Quincy, who I do consider my "baby" (he hates it when I call him that though), and I'm raising him to be a good........ DOG. He's a dog, he knows it, I know it. Keeps us from being too disappointed when he fails to get his high school diploma.

"However, Ji's daughter is dismayed that Koco's owner hasn't called her mother to inquire how she is doing." Sue-happy society we live in, calling would be an admission of guilt or responsibility. She hasn't offered to pay that poor woman's medical bills either, says something there.

"Koco's owner has already thought about how to confine Koco inside her house, including keeping him in her bedroom behind a locked door when she's gone." Oh my, THAT will help with his aggression issues.

""Anyone will tell you that I am the most responsible pet owner," she said." Yeah..... so she says. Little thing called "actions speak louder than words" comes in to play here though.

I feel very sorry for the woman who was attacked. I appreciate her love of dogs demonstrated by her forgiveness and insistance that this dog not be put to sleep. Unfortunately, I think she's a little misguided.

[LabBreeder]

I don't think 3 kids should have been walking the dog.
I do think they should do a canine-ality test and see how the dog acts.
If he passes, rehab and rehome.
If he fails...well...euthanization.

If the dog had been properly trained, socialized, etc. this could have been prevented. He should also have had his shots and been with a responsible owner.

[casablanca1]

I do think they should do a canine-ality test and see how the dog acts.
If he passes, rehab and rehome.

What's the point? It's like saying we can't sentence a convicted killer unless he takes and fails a personality test. The test is handy in some circumstances, but beside the point in this case.

[bubbatd]

Unfortunately with this dog showing previous aggressiveness , there may be no option other than putting him down. This could have been the nieces and nephew.

[gaddylovesdogs]

If the dog just flat out attacks for no reason, I think euthanasia is the safest and most humane decision. I wouldn't own a dog like that.

[LabBreeder]

I do think they should do a canine-ality test and see how the dog acts.
If he passes, rehab and rehome.

What's the point? It's like saying we can't sentence a convicted killer unless he takes and fails a personality test. The test is handy in some circumstances, but beside the point in this case.

What about pit bulls that are taken from a dog fighting home where not all the pits are used as fighters. Just because they are agressive when you come onto their turf doesn't mean they are all agressive under normal circumstances. They do the tests with bigger cities ASPCA's alot (from what I've heard). Some of those dogs pass the test and go on to fitting homes.

[Roxy's CD]

It's sad that the woman got attacked but it touches my heart that she's not so quick to point the finger at the dog and order him to be put down. That is very noble of her, especially seeing as she's said the situation was absolutely terrifying.

I'm mixed. Obviously the owner is in the wrong. The girls should not have had the dog out on their own, she said that herself. Obviously her children do not listen to her.

Perhaps the when the woman began speaking in a different language it scared the dog..? Is that a possibility?

I don't think the dog should be put down... I never think any dog should be put down. Should he be re-homed with someone who is experienced with behavioural problems and will be able to be moulded into a pleasant amiable animal? Of course. If it's possible. But no, the animal should NOT be staying with this family. This woman needs to work on "training" her children and she doesn't need the distraction of a dog.

[casablanca1]

What about pit bulls that are taken from a dog fighting home where not all the pits are used as fighters. Just because they are agressive when you come onto their turf doesn't mean they are all agressive under normal circumstances. They do the tests with bigger cities ASPCA's alot (from what I've heard). Some of those dogs pass the test and go on to fitting homes.

Er, what are you talking about? This thread was about a specific case of a dog that savaged a woman, not theoretical pit bulls who may or may not be aggressive outside a fighting ring.

[casablanca1]

It's sad that the woman got attacked but it touches my heart that she's not so quick to point the finger at the dog and order him to be put down. That is very noble of her, especially seeing as she's said the situation was absolutely terrifying.

I think it's selfish. What if her 'nobility' helps get this dog released to its owners, and the next victim is killed? The decision to put him down doesn't rest with her or depend on the details of her attack. It rests with the local officials, who are supposed to act to protect the community as a whole by deciding if the dog is safe enough to not pose a threat in the future.

I don't think the dog should be put down... I never think any dog should be put down. Should he be re-homed with someone who is experienced with behavioural problems and will be able to be moulded into a pleasant amiable animal? Of course. If it's possible.

And of course, it's not possible. The only people who would want to buy a dog with a history of trying to kill a human are people you don't want owning a hamster. Everyone else - any expert who has a clue what the retraining involves and what the responsibilities are of owning such a dog - wants no part of that animal. It's gratifying to say you never want a dog killed, but when the alternative is the dog lives as a constant and very likely threat toward everyone it meets, where's the virtue?

[Roxy's CD]

If I didn't already own two dogs, who I care about very much, I would dedicate myself to rehabilitating animals just to show you wrong. After years of rehabilitating ex-track horses (many have been beaten, locked in a smal 9x9 stall for 23 and half hours of their life), and abused horses I know that they can be rehabilitated and sold for wonderful pleasure horses. Some even to be shown.

Why can dogs not be the same? I believe any animal if given the time and proper environment can be changed. They may still have quirks, (ex. a racehorse that's shy of whips/bats) but those can easily be worked around.

I am disappointed with your attitude although I do see where it comes from. There aren't enough willing/able people out there to rehabilitate these animals. My point is that it could be done, it's just not important in today's society. Dogs are great until they require money and time from the government to fix the problems that people create.

[JennSLK]

The decision to put him down doesn't rest with her or depend on the details of her attack.

Actually it depends a great deal on the details of the atack.The details an mean the difference between life and death for a dog.

of course, it's not possible. The only people who would want to buy a dog with a history of trying to kill a human are people you don't want owning a hamster. Everyone else - any expert who has a clue what the retraining involves and what the responsibilities are of owning such a dog - wants no part of that animal. It's gratifying to say you never want a dog killed, but when the alternative is the dog lives as a constant and very likely threat toward everyone it meets, where's the virtue?


I would want to own one. I fostered one who was very agressive. She went to a good home. You must understand what you have. Sadie never went off leash and she never went into situations were they would be alot of kids. I loved to walk at night wich made it a good match. She was constantly watched.


any expert who has a clue what the retraining involves and what the responsibilities are of owning such a dog - wants no part of that animal.

Really?! I do beleive Dr2little deals with bite cases. Are all bite cases not an "atempt on a person's life" Sure not all dogs can be saved but who are you Casa to say ifthis dog could be saved or not? Are you a animal behaviourist? Do you have direct experiance with this paticular dog? Each dog is different. This dog just may be able to be saved.

[mamasobuco]

Because the dog attacked and bit her neck unprovoked if it were my dog I would have put it down already. Of course it would be hard to do but I would be too afraid of it happening again with the next time being a worse situtation.

[Serena]

Everyone else - any expert who has a clue what the retraining involves and what the responsibilities are of owning such a dog - wants no part of that animal. It's gratifying to say you never want a dog killed, but when the alternative is the dog lives as a constant and very likely threat toward everyone it meets, where's the virtue?

Speaking for myself I have fostered numerous dogs over the years and I will be the first to tell you not every story has a happy ending.

Sometimes all the training in the world won't make a difference. Sometimes a dog is simply unsound and nothing in the world you can do will make it a safe family pet. EVER...

Sometimes euthanasia is the kindest and safest option. In rescue you learn quickly that is a reality. You want to save them all and you simply can't.

But for the ones that you can rehab so they are adoptable it makes a difference and it is so worth it.

The details of the dogs attack certainly do make a difference...

Some breeds are bred to be more physical and have to be trained and properly socialized so they don't matters into their own paws...

There is a huge difference between a dog with a stable temperament attacking someone because it was never trained or supervised and has no clue it is not pack leader and an unsound dog plagued with genetic and temperamental disorders attacking someone.

But thats sort of besides the point isnt' it?

Can the dog be rehabiliated? Without seeing the dog it is impossible to say.

Will the dog be given the chance to rehabilitated? I highly doubt it. I doubt a qualified behavioralist will be called in to examine the dog. I doubt a full health exam will be done.

I think the dogs fate has already been sealed.

[LabBreeder]

Er, what are you talking about? This thread was about a specific case of a dog that savaged a woman, not theoretical pit bulls who may or may not be aggressive outside a fighting ring.

Considering I started the thread...:rolleyes: I think I can say what I please and use whatever analogies I see fit. It's the same concept. If you can't follow, don't reply. :)

[LabBreeder]

As for the others that are not so heartless (i.e Roxy, Serena & Jenn) thank you for admitting you would try to help, or at least not put this dog to sleep right away.

[Zoom]

Quarentining a dog to check for rabies is standard procedure in any bite case, even in those where shot records are provided.

I wonder which part of the sentence this was referring to" against the family rules." Against the rules for the girls to walk the dog or for the dog to be walked outside of the house at all?

[LabBreeder]

zoom - Maybe both? Maybe the girls weren't supposed to walk the dog or let it outside the yard.

[casablanca1]

Considering I started the thread...:rolleyes: I think I can say what I please and use whatever analogies I see fit. It's the same concept. If you can't follow, don't reply. :)

Your analogy was so bad the only way I could have followed your reasoning was to be psychic. And despite what you apparently think, a thread doesn't belong to you, so no, you can't defend any dumb thing you say on it as being appropriate and valid since it's your argument to begin with.

[casablanca1]

Actually it depends a great deal on the details of the atack.The details an mean the difference between life and death for a dog.

Misunderstanding - when I said "The decision to put him down doesn't rest with her or depend on the details of her attack." I meant that the details of this woman's attack may determine what happens to the dog, but whatever is decreed, it's not just to 'punish' the dog or the owner for this woman's injuries. It'll be done to protect society as a whole.

Really?! I do beleive Dr2little deals with bite cases. Are all bite cases not an "atempt on a person's life" Sure not all dogs can be saved but who are you Casa to say ifthis dog could be saved or not? Are you a animal behaviourist? Do you have direct experiance with this paticular dog? Each dog is different.

Do you? You clearly feel the dog has a chance of changing, so what gives you the right to comment on the dog? None of us has any direct experience with this particular story, but we're all talking about it. It's the nature of discussion. Of course we don't have direct experience with this dog, and weren't witnesses to the attack or know everything about the dog's past. That doesn't mean we can't form opinions about this situation and other similar situations.

This dog just may be able to be saved.

My question here is whether it's moral to do so. Everyone here is very vocal about how bybs are terrible because every time they breed, they help doom another group of homeless dogs already in existence by taking up available homes with adorable and unhealthy puppies. How much better is it to occupy an available home with a biter, which inevitably means another dog, possibly a dog without an aggressive bone in it's body, is euthanized? And yes, I do recognize that not all dogs are unaggressive sweethearts, that some dogs are just snotty or reserved or whatever. I'm not saying the entire dog world has to be preternaturally sweet Golden Retrievers, or that any dog who ever growls at a human should be euthanized. But when a dog shows unmistakeably that he/she's one of that tiny minority of dogs who will seriously attack and try to kill a human without provocation, I think there's nothing to be gained in keeping that dog alive.

[LabBreeder]

casablanca - You are so defensive. If I make a thread, it's mine and I can request it be locked or deleted if I think it takes a turn for the worse. (So can you, but you like arguing to much.) You are making it turn right now and I don't appreciate it. All you are doing is bashing other people's opinions and analogies and you have nothing constructive to offer. I never said it was MY argument either. I found the article, thought it was interesting and posted the link.
BTW, I can defend anything I say until the day I die! So try another route for your rantings and ravings.

[Bailey+Ralph]

I think it is very sad that 3 young children had a dog (that had previously shown aggression) outside alone.

MHO is............Ok it is all very kind of you all to say that you would rather see the dog rehabed and given a chance.

But wasn't the dog already given a chance and he Bit again??

This is my personal opinion and i won't argue with anyone b/c we each have our own..........I would have the dog put to sleep.

If this was my OWN dog i would have him put to sleep.

I could never take that risk once he had shown that sort of aggression.
The next person may not be so lucky!!

[casablanca1]

casablanca - You are so defensive. If I make a thread, it's mine and I can request it be locked or deleted if I think it takes a turn for the worse. (So can you, but you like arguing to much.) You are making it turn right now and I don't appreciate it. All you are doing is bashing other people's opinions and analogies and you have nothing constructive to offer. I never said it was MY argument either. I found the article, thought it was interesting and posted the link. BTW, I can defend anything I say until the day I die! So try another route for your rantings and ravings.

Is that spittle?

[Bailey+Ralph]

Why does a simple thread have to turn into an argument???