Shaping the Drop on Recall with a TOUCH STICK

[RedyreRottweilers]

First, if you have not ever read about operant conditioning, or clicker training, please read up on that a bit before trying this. :D

Tools:

A flat piece of board or wood. A yardstick works fine. So does about a 24 to 36" piece of any flat smooth board.

On the middle of this board, using duct tape, tape up about a 6" area. (this is your TARGET AREA)

Once you have your touch stick made, get some very tasty high value treats that your dog will go nuts over. Get something cool to drink, get a good show on TV, and sit in your favorite chair with the touch stick across your lap.

This part shapes just like the dumb bell part. If your dog has been recently shaped to the retrieve using clicker/operant methods, most likely he/she will pick up on this VERY fast.

Wait for a look, or a touch to the stick. Mark all behaviors where the dog looks at the stick, or gets close to it, or touches it. JACKPOT the first several touches.

Then shape for the dog to touch the taped area with the chin. Your goal is to get the dog to lay her chin on the taped target area of the stick. This usually comes pretty quickly.

Same as with the dumb bell, let the dog take a break every 3 or 4th rep by tossing a treat across the room and letting the dog run to get it.

Once the dog has the touching it with the chin fairly consistent, lay the stick on the floor at your feet. JACKPOT the first several touches. If the dog LIES DOWN to touch the stick with her chin, it's PAY DAY. If you get to this during the first session, I would jackpot, and quit. I always make really much over the touch stick. As I am putting it up, I praise it, stroke it, talk to it, while ignoring the dog. This makes the touch stick SPECIAL.

It stays where the dog can see it but not get it. I do the same thing when I get the stick out.

Once the dog is keen on placing her chin on the touch stick, you can give this behavior a name. Choose the name you want for your drop. It should be a new command word. If you've been using down, use the word FLAT. Or DECK is another good one. Funniest drop command I've seen yet is BANG. ;)

Next, you need a helper. Set the dog up about 10 feet from you, with someone else holding her. It's important at this point you give no command. at a previously agreed upon cue, have them let the dog go. If she comes and puts her chin on the touch stick, JACKPOT. Most will do this the first time they are set up if you are patient, and the dog understands that touching the stick with her chin gets her a mark and a treat.

This is a way to get a STUNNING DOR. Dogs trained this way FLY into their handlers, and SKID to a FLAT DOWN with their chin on the floor on the drop command, waiting, coiled tight as a spring, for the next command to come front.

ONce the dog is doing the drop as you like, and it has a complete grasp of the exercise, you can start fading your precious stick. Gradually, over time, make the stick smaller and smaller, removing small sections off the ends until one day there is nothing left.

Now how many drop on recall online students do I have this week? I need a report from you all at the end of the week.

:D

[Roxy's CD]

I've been working on her drop on recall... she's doing pretty good (we work on it in busy parks which makes for plenty of good distractions!), although she could definitely improve. Roxy's issue is of course she'll try to sneak a couple of extra steps in to me to get the treat faster.

OK, but I have a couple of questions. I can't leave her on a wait to do this? I usually train alone... :( LOL.

And when she drops her chin to the target, do I GO IN and treat her, or call her to come front?

[RedyreRottweilers]

You can try using a wait command, but this may slow down your progress.

Work at home on getting her to touch, and then coming to YOU for her reward. (get it? Touch the stick, RUN to me? :D)

You might find you end up needing to work on your wait command a little because they get SOOOO wound up over this exercise once they figure it out.

:D

[GSDlover_4ever]

Intersting!!! :D I will definately train my puppy with your techniques, Red. SOunds more effective and fun than a prong :eek: .

[RedyreRottweilers]

In all honesty, a prong collar is an important tool for me in training. I don't use it to inflict pain, but when prepping for competition in the ring, it allows me to guide the dog with MUCH less body language than I would have to use with a slip collar.

HOWEVER, I NEVER use aversives to teach. Once TAUGHT, if a dog needs polishing, or reminding that obedience is not optional, then I might use the least amount of aversives needed to accomplish that goal.

Over the years I have gravitated much further away from the Koeler based training methods. My dog is my pal and my partner, and I prefer to teach in a positive way whenever it's possible.

:D

[JennSLK]

Well we are still working on Jazz's recall, but i will keep you updated. :D

[RedyreRottweilers]

Jenn, are you using the recall game with her?

COPYRIGHT 2005/2006 Rebekah L. Pless * all rights reserved
Free for use or copy by anyone as long as author info remains intact

The Recall Game

Having a dog who will reliably come when called is one of the best
things in life. This means FREEDOM for your dog. Here is how to teach
your dog to RUN to you each time you call it.

1) NEVER call your dog unless you are CERTAIN you can enforce
the command. Each time you call your dog and he does not immediately
come to you to receive a food reward, you take a step backwards in
his learning to come when you call. It is important not to make
mistakes when teaching the recall. DO NOT CALL YOUR DOG if there is
ANY chance you cannot enforce the command. EVER.
2) NEVER call your dog to you for anything unpleasant. If you
need to interrupt a play session, or you are going to trim nails, or
if you are about to do anything to your dog that he does not enjoy,
GO GET THE DOG. Do not call him to you.
3) FOOD REWARD every single recall. EVERY SINGLE ONE. This
means keeping treats in your pockets at all times.
4) Smiles are required equipment when calling your dog. NEVER
EVER call your dog in anything but a praise tone of voice. Correction
will NEVER help a recall. Your dog must WANT to come when you call.

To play the game you need at least 2 people, and several is great.
Each person is given a handful of very small soft treats. I prefer
tiny pieces of hotdogs or string cheese. Pieces should be VERY small,
even for a larger dog or puppy. I slice a hotdog in half and cut the
pieces the size of a nickle. Once people have their treats, they
should take a seat around the room with as much room between them as
the room will allow.

One person takes the puppy or dog and points him towards the person
who is going to begin the game. This person may do anything to get
the puppy to come towards him except say the word COME. Clap hands,
smile, laugh, show the treat, call PUPPPY PUPPPPY PUPPPPY, or the
dog's name. When it is CLEAR that the pup is committed to going to
the person, and ONLY THEN, say the pup's name, and come. For example,
Bailey, COME! It does not matter if the puppy is almost to you, as
long as the pup hears his name and the word COME while he is going
TOWARDS the person calling.

Hold the hand with the food right up next to your body so that the
puppy has to come all the way up to you and touch you to get the
treat. Do not feed the treat until you are holding the puppy's
collar. This prevents the "snatch and run" game. Praise and pet the
puppy cheerfully while he is getting his treat. Once the pup has had
his little tiny treat, it's time to point him towards another person
who does the same thing.

It is extremely important that the participants understand they are
NOT to say the word COME unless the puppy is already doing just that.

Play as long as the pup is interested. Main rules, Do not say COME
unless the puppy IS coming, hold the treat up CLOSE to your body, and
you must be holding the collar to feed the treat.

This simple game does more to build a reliable recall than any other
training you can do. Your pup will quickly learn that his name and
the word come means TREAT. Each time you call the pup and reward him
for coming quickly to you, you build a more ingrained and reliable
response. If you are consistent and train this game at least 2 to 3
times per week, you will have a dog who will ALWAYS come when you
call it. Most owners list this as a top priority for their dogs. Here
is a fun and simple way to attain this goal.

Practice often! Your pup will love this game, and so will your friends.

[~Tucker&Me~]

I will definately work on this!
Good article :D.
I'll let you know by Monday! LOL

~Tucker

[GSDlover_4ever]

In all honesty, a prong collar is an important tool for me in training. I don't use it to inflict pain, but when prepping for competition in the ring, it allows me to guide the dog with MUCH less body language than I would have to use with a slip collar.

HOWEVER, I NEVER use aversives to teach. Once TAUGHT, if a dog needs polishing, or reminding that obedience is not optional, then I might use the least amount of aversives needed to accomplish that goal.

Over the years I have gravitated much further away from the Koeler based training methods. My dog is my pal and my partner, and I prefer to teach in a positive way whenever it's possible.

:D

I love you, Red!!! We think alike. Once my dog knows and understands what I taught him then he is EXPECTED to do those things, and if he CHOOSES not to then he gets reminded, as you said, that obedience is not HIS choice. He must do it. I rarely use the prong and use as little force as necessary. But it all depends on the dog. My 3 year old could care less if I correct him verbally or with a flat collar. But Neeko only needs a firm, "no" to get corrected. I try problem solving and only resort to aversives once I have eliminated all my other options. But a dog must understand that they MUST behave a certain way and do what is asked of them.

[Roxy's CD]

Ok, Red, we've been working on this... I have a few questions.

I have a piece of wood and instead of duct tape and clear taped over a a blue piece of construction paper for my "target".

Ok, so Roxy now knows that by lying down and placing her chin over the blue "target" is what I want her to do. (with plenty of treats and "yeses!" of course LOL)

Ok, so, I've decided to use "deck" as my command. So, on a drop on recall, the dog is placed on a wait. Than you call them to come, and give the signal for down usually halfway between.

So, am I supposed to call her to "come", than as she nears the touch stick say "deck!"?

[JennSLK]

I dont have enought people to do the game red. Since I am home during the day before john gets home I am using the method were you have a leash. What I am doing is kinda like the game.

I start out with TONS of treats and a long leash hooked onto Jazz. I say Jazz, Jazz, Jazz, ect untill she starts coming towards me and then I say Come. LOTS of treats when she comes.

We just started working on it a few days ago. Once her sit and recall are better (Sit is really good) then I will start with the down, then the down on comand. :D

[Roxy's CD]

So, I spent a full day just "loving the touchstick" LOL. My bf thought I was crazy, every now and again, I'd take it away from her and talk to it and stroke it LMFAO

So here are three clips of how it's coming along REd.

Now knowing that Roxy's a soccer dog she's been kicking it a bit on her way down.. Should I just find someway to keep it on the floor? Or is it ok?

Her recall was getting slow because she was anticipating "deck".. I just took time out and did some fun recall games to get her amped again.

Ah, well here, just watch it and tell me what I need to work on! LOL

As always turn your volume down, lol

First one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfb_Ecax8jU

Second one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s67Fa6k3ta4

And the last one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67gw0aXTe3w

[~Tucker&Me~]

That's great Roxy's CD!
Hades is in the background, looking all dejected! LOL

~Tucker

[Roxy's CD]

LOL! He knows I'm not paying attention to him, so he just sorta hangs around, he's a great distraction though!

That dog is so funny, he gets soo excited when it's his turn to work, tails waggs constantly, looking up at me! Of course this is at home, once we go to school it's all about the ladies there! LOL

[RedyreRottweilers]

You are a great student, RCD.

Wish you were closer, we would have a great time together.

LMAO

Are you going to show this to your instructor this week?

*teehee*

[RedyreRottweilers]

One thing you might try to speed her up a little is to have her in heel position, and slide the touch stick out across the floor. Release her and as soon as she touches it, mark and treat.

You could also put the touch stick down, and take her to a different room and let her go find it and touch it, and mark and reward that.

I would back off on using command words, and let her learn that fast is what you want on her own.

I would also stop calling her off of it for now, and just work on getting her to RUN to it and touch it.

However, it will make a great demo for your instructor next week.

*giggle*

[RD]

Worked on this yesterday... wow. I'm VERY impressed so far. :D I'll get videos if I can get my pathetic little camera to work.

Thanks, Red! His DOR was always a little sloppy and this is just what we needed. :)

[~Tucker&Me~]

Well here's my video, LOL.
He's not very good, and doesn't pay much attention to the stick...
But here he is!

Oh, and I know my voice sounds wierd LOL, might be worthwhile turning down your speakers...

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/Tucker4270/?action=view&current=IMGP2226AVI.flv

~Tucker

[RedyreRottweilers]

well, a couple of things, Tucker.

First, the dog HAS to learn that in order to get any reward, he must touch the target.

This is a SILENT EXERCISE for you, the handler. Start with marking when the dog comes near the target.

Move up to marking touches, and then chin touches.

Again, shaping is a SILENT exercise for the handler. The DOG must figure out what gets him the click. Or the yes.

when shaping a behavior, it is not given a name until the dog is performing it reliably.

:D

[~Tucker&Me~]

Okay...
I am bad at this! LOL
I will continue this for a couple days then give another update :D.

~Tucker

[RedyreRottweilers]

Naw, you are just learning, Tucker. :D

You can try shaping ANYTHING. Any little behavior. Like lifting a front paw. Or touching the nose to your knee. Remember that in the beginning you must mark and reward anything that is even CLOSE to what you want, and then gradually raise your criteria until you have the dog doing what you like.

AND KEEP IT ZIPPED!!

;)

[Roxy's CD]

Yeah Tucker!!!! Even though he didn't touch the stick, I was very impressed with how fast he dropped!!!

LOL, I can't keep my mouth shut either. I find it sooo hard to not give her commands, but I see that that's the way this sort of exercise has to be done.... NO HINTS FOR THE DOG! LOL.

We've been working on it silently for a day or two, I might take a vid tomorrow. I know you'll be impressed Red... :D She's doing very well. Like you said because she already knows the routine from the dumbell.

Good job Tucker!!!! :)

[~Tucker&Me~]

Thanks ;)
I am going to keep working on it :D.
I am actually really pleased, as he usually takes his time to go 'down', yet he seems to be much faster doing this!

Actually Red, you should post a new training challenge like this every 2-3 weeks :D. It would be really fun and we would be your 'students', LOL. We could videotape them and you could give us tips and stuff! Wouldn't that be fun?!

~Tucker

[RedyreRottweilers]

;) Great idea, Tucker.

:D

[RD]

That's a fabulous idea. :)

I have a problem keeping it zipped when I'm working on shaping behaviors with Dakota. He loses interest quickly when he doesn't think there's anything for him to do. To keep him interested I tend to run my mouth and give him other commands. :rolleyes: I think I call him back to me 20 times in a 5-minute session, because he leaves to go watch TV or lay down. Ripley is actually the easier one to train in this case!

[Roxy's CD]

LOL @ RD ! Hades does that too! If he even gets the slightest correction, or he's left in a sit-stay for 20 seconds too long, he'll wander off to watch tv or cuddle with Dad! LOL

Now heeling is his favourite though! That he would do forever.

[RedyreRottweilers]

SHUT UP!!!!

;)

no commands for the drop. You can CALL her, but you cannot command the drop, or give it a name, until the dog is reliably doing it.

Don't worry about naming it. What you are looking for is an excuse to mark the behavior. You have plenty of time to name it later.

ZIP IT, girl, ZIP IT.

;)

[GSDlover_4ever]

Red, should I be doing this with my 13 week old puppy or should I do something else to prepare him for this? He has a very short attention span.

[RedyreRottweilers]

You can use shaping behavior with puppies that age. What I would be doing with that puppy is playing the Recall Game, and working on building that attention span.

Puppies at 13 weeks should be in puppy class, or about to start.

[GSDlover_4ever]

Ok!! We attend his breeder's classes (shes a trainer), whenever we want to. We've been going since he was 8 weeks old, and I expect alot from him already. AS a matter of fact we just went yesturday to the intermediate class, and Hondo passed with flying colors.