Which breed? [Archive] - Chazhound Dog Forum

Gempress

06-17-2006, 11:20 AM

What a horrible experience to go through!

I don't think there's anything cruel with getting a dog for security purposes. After all, many breeds were created specifically for guard dogs!

But there are other considerations. I don't mean to misinterpret or talk down to you, but your original post sounds like you just want a dog for security. You also need to be willing to make the dog a well-loved part of the family, not just a burglar deterrant. Dogs need that kind of support, especially protection breeds. Otherwise, they can develop severe aggression issues, even towards their owners. The dog must also be housed indoors with the rest of the family; if they don't feel the house is "theirs", they may not feel inclined to protect it.

Also, most guardian breeds don't get their protective instincts until they're 1-2 years old. It will be a long time before that puppy will start actually being protective.

I noticed that you've mentioned that you've never had a dog before. That could be a problem. Guardian breeds almost always require an experienced owner; they can be dominant, challenging at times and absolutely need good training. You cannot have a dog of that size and power and leave it untrained. Especially not with small children around.

These dogs also need intense socialization. Meaning that they need to be exposed to all kinds of situations and people when they're puppies. You need to take the pup to the park, the school, have people visit, etc. By being socialized, the puppy learns how to behave in normal, everyday settings. The puppy also learns to distinguish between a normal situation and a bad situation--essential for a guardian dog. You don't want the dog attacking when your children's friends come over.

You also need to get your dog from a good breeder...not a newspaper ad or a pet store. If you get a dog from a bad breeder, you could end up with a lot of health and temperament issues...both are disastrous in a guardian dog. Expect to pay a *lot* of money for a quality pup: $1,000-$2000, depending on the breed. Maybe even more.

These were only a few things you need to consider. I strongly consider getting some good books on raising dogs, and look up some information on guardian breeds. Call some good breeders and ask for information; most of them are more than willing to talk about their dogs. Puppies are a lot of work to raise, almost exactly like a human baby. Be sure you know what you're getting into before you take the plunge.

Gamba

06-17-2006, 11:22 AM

poodlesmom

06-17-2006, 11:35 AM

To be perfectly honest in my opinion I don't feel a "guardian" breed per se is necessary to be a burglar deterrent. Most dogs as they mature will alert and bark and in most situations that is more than enough to scare a would-be burglar away. I have 2 standard poodles who absolutely love everyone but sound the alarm when someone they don't know well approaches my driveway either on foot or in a car. In fact a couple of months ago they awoke me early on a Sun. morning and before I went to investigate I knew there had to be a stranger at the door. Sure enough there was - it was a State Trooper who was warning neighbors of a rash of break ins in the area and to see if I had seen anything suspicious the night before. He did chuckle and say that he was sure I'd have no problems as long as my dogs were at home.:)

I also don't think it is even necessary for it to be a large breed dog. Over the years I have met many small dogs who while loving and very obedient would definitely stop a burglar who is trying to be unnoticed.

Gempress

06-17-2006, 11:39 AM

To be perfectly honest in my opinion I don't feel a "guardian" breed per se is necessary to be a burglar deterrent.

That is very true! Most dogs of any breed will at least bark and growl at a strange sound (unless they're just weirdos like my two barkless wonders :rolleyes: ). An airdale does sound like it may be a good fit. But I don't know much about them, or about how suitable they are for a beginning owner.

Roxy's CD

06-17-2006, 11:46 AM

As poodlesmom said any dog can be a good deterrent. One that barks. All dogs bark, some bark more than others :) LOL

Having a dog is HUGE responsibility especially when you have kids. They are, well expensive. Vet bills/shots, food, treats, accessories....lol

I may have gotten my dogs for free, but on average I spend close to $200 a month on them. Food/treats/training. Perhaps maybe even more now that I start to add up numbers.

Getting a dog is something you don't want to just jump into. As Gempress mentioned, spend some time looking for a good breeder. Know that the first year will require a lot of attention and training. Dogs are great! They really are but you have to be prepared mentally and financially before you should commit.

Good luck!

JennSLK

06-17-2006, 12:41 PM

IMHO I dont feal that any "gardian type" is good for a first time home owner.

I would get a lab. If you want a deturant get a black or chocolate because they are "meaner" looking and less likely for someone to know what they are. Labs will protect you if the need arises.

Just MO as allways

gaddylovesdogs

06-17-2006, 01:06 PM

I agree with Gempress.

I'm thinking a German Shepherd...make sure you do your research first...they are wonderful, sweet, loyal dogs to their families, and make great protectors.

I would get a lab. If you want a deturant get a black or chocolate because they are "meaner" looking and less likely for someone to know what they are. Labs will protect you if the need arises.
I don't consider black and chocolate labs to look "meaner" I have a chocolate lab and people rush to her to pet her BECAUSE she is chocolate. However, I have no doubt she'd protect me if needed. Labs just have a more unique protection style...if my lab doesn't like someone, she'll stand in front of me and stare the person down until they leave. She plants herself into the ground so NO ONE can move her. My other two stand next to me and bark/growl as needed.

GSDlover_4ever

06-17-2006, 03:10 PM

Thanks for that usefull post Gempress.

I do actually want a dog to love and appreciate. Not just as a 'burglar alarm' but also as a friend and companion to myself and my family (4 daughters!). I'm angry at being burgled and maybe this is coming across too strongly. My neighbour has his dog chained up for the most of the day and I feel this is wrong.
I'm drawn to the airdale terrior...any more suggestions appreciated

Airedales are no joke, they scare the hell out of me,lol. IMO not for the first time owner. They are not classed as a "guardian" breed but are used for police work and protection work. They have that independent terrier instinct and the owner needs to understand how to be one step ahead of them and how to anticipate their next move.

Also, many guardian "dogs' will flight before they fight. If you want a dog that wil protect you need to research breeders and lines. There has been so much overbreeding of these dogs for "thugs" and stuff that there protective nature has been compromised and most do not hold the self confidence to fight, JMO.

I would suggest an american working line GSD. They still are not totally f-up like the american showlines and do show some type of protective instincts but are not as "hard" and "dominant" as your West German working lines or DDR lines and other working lines.

I think with guidance from a trainer you can handle a dog such as the GSD, and as I said the american working lines are not as hard as other lines out there.

GSDlover_4ever

06-17-2006, 03:28 PM

Have you thought of this legally as well?

If a burglar enters your home, your dog attacks and injures the burglar - you can be charged b/c the incident happened on YOUR property??

Yeah, IMO that sucks. If someone is a threat in my house I SHOULD be able to defend myself but the bad guy can sue me if my dog bit them. Well, all I can say is I hope no one comes into my house with Caza (my 3 year old GSD) or Neeko (my 2 doberman) inside. That person couldnt press charges because they would be dead. Especially if my mother or I was in the house.

That is BS, really.

princess_poppy

06-17-2006, 03:42 PM

yep thats true. a burgular over here broke a window and cut him self on the broken glass in the house, he then sued the owner of the house.

GSDlover_4ever

06-17-2006, 04:21 PM

yep thats true. a burgular over here broke a window and cut him self on the broken glass in the house, he then sued the owner of the house.

WOW, thats rediculous.

JennSLK

06-17-2006, 04:28 PM

Thats nothing. A burgler was on the roof of a Hudson's Bay and fell through the Skylight. Security found him in the morning with a broken leg. He sues the bay and WON!

GSDlover_4ever

06-17-2006, 11:03 PM

Thats nothing. A burgler was on the roof of a Hudson's Bay and fell through the Skylight. Security found him in the morning with a broken leg. He sues the bay and WON!

Thats crazy. Criminals have more rights than the "good" citizen. Let me not even get started about inmates, they have more rights than we do. Its insane.

Mindy Miller

06-18-2006, 05:48 PM

I know you probably wouldn't go for it, but I have a Lhasa Apso. They're bred to alert their owners when something is not right. If anyone my dog doesn't know comes to the house, she barks her head off until she sees that we think this person is okay. But she's not a yapper. Very loving and loyal to our family.

I'm with everyone else who says that getting a dog that will rip the intruder to shreds probably isn't a good idea. If you have a dog trained like that, you can't leave them alone with your girls ever. You never know when they might make a move that the dog interprets as agressive and the consequences could be very scary and sad.

JennSLK

06-18-2006, 06:15 PM

If you have a dog trained like that, you can't leave them alone with your girls ever.

And why not!? A PROPERLY trained (enphisis on properly) gaurd/protection/SchH dog is fine around it's own kids. They know when there is a threat and when there isnt. They know their kids from other kids and unless the kid is being cruel to it there is no problem

filarotten

06-18-2006, 06:27 PM

I have had two airedales a male and a female. Of the terriers, I think they are a little more laid back than the smaller ones. They can be terrors as puppys, they are very playful and inquisitive, and too smart sometimes. lol But they are excellent with children and are very good watchdogs. I got mine when my son was almost two. But, the main problem I had with mine, was dog aggression, as with most terriers. Once they are confronted, they don't want to back down.

If you socialize, take the dog to obedience classes and give it lots of love and attention it will be a very nice dog to own. But, they do require lots of grooming at the groomer.

They are very protective, one day my son decided he was running away from home and going to live with his Nanny, he was 5. She only lived a few houses down from us but there was a large field between the houses. Nelson stayed with Todd the entire time. He did not leave his side, and stayed with him at his Nanny's until Todd decided he wanted to live back home. lol I went and got both of them. He was big enough to scare people with his looks, and had a loud bark. Most strangers were afraid of him because of that.

Personally I think it would be a very good dog for a first time dog owner. Just make sure you teach the kids respect for the dog, and vice versa. And be prepared for lack of sleep while housebreaking.

I think Gempress had some very good advice.

To me, I think a terrier is the best dog to start with if you plan on going into the true guardian breeds later. They are tenacious, but a good controllable size to start with.

You don't need a trained guard dog to start with. I think you on the right track.

Good luck, and keep us posted. We are here to help.

And just to set the record straight, the majority of the true guardian breeds are very good with Children. I am talking their protective instinct is bred into them, they are not trained to be protective. There is a difference, I would never recommend one for a first time dog owner.

GSDlover_4ever

06-18-2006, 08:54 PM

If you have a dog trained like that, you can't leave them alone with your girls ever.

I agree with Jenn, dogs properly trained and have stable temperaments are very dependable. I would feel safer leaving my child with a Sch III dog than a pet. Sch and PP dogs can be turned on and off like a light switch.

Mindy Miller

06-18-2006, 11:43 PM

I'm sorry, I meant a dog that was trained to be aggressive. A properly trained dog would be fine, I'm sure. I'm sorry, sorry, sorry :D Please, please forget I said that!

I was just getting at the fact that maybe having a dog that would alert you to intruders or whatever might be more desirable to this particular person, a first time dog owner.

bubbatd

06-19-2006, 12:21 AM

I would consider the family dog first... large and a great family dog..... My Golden wouldn't hurt a flea , but barks at any strange sound....I'd rather have an alarm than a killer. A Lab is the same....it's the bark...not the color .

stevinski

06-19-2006, 08:47 AM

chinese shar-pei's were bred for guarding so thats what their naturally good for!

Leslie + Chessies

06-19-2006, 10:24 AM

Chesapeake Bay Retrievers are wonderful family dogs, yet are also fierce protectors. Unlike the other retrievers, Chesapeakes were bred to hunt with the solitary hunter. When the hunt was over, these dogs were expected to guard the daily catch. The dog that developed from these early demands is driven, intelligent, protective, and active. Chesapeakes feel a strong sense of responsibility to protect their owner's property - the yard, the house, the car, the children, the cats, the houseguests. Chesapeakes are also extremely loyal, affectionate, and clownish. Both of mine are wonderful with children, but wary and aloof with strangers.

Experienced owners and owners who have a strong commitment to training and exercising the dog do better with a Chesapeake. They are a breed that should be contained, due their protective nature. Chesapeakes must be socialized with kinds of people, animals, and situations from a young age. Dogs without socialization are often the fearful or suspicious and may end up on the aggressive side.

gdsgregory

06-19-2006, 09:46 PM

Hi Gamba,

I sympathise with you tremendously as this happened to me 18 months ago and I can therefore fully understand you emotions. For me the answer was simple and I went ahead and now have 2 fila brasileiro dogs to protect my family. But a dog is by no means the answer to everyones problem of this nature.
Firstly living in the western world you will have many legal issues if your dog rips a burglar to shreds and also your animal will most likely be sent for destruction. I do not have this problem living in south america.
The dog will need to be loved and to be a member of the family in order to be effective. If you did not want a dog before the burglary you really should think long and hard before geeting one now.
The animal will need to be trained and socialized and an animal that could tear someone to shreds will be a guardian breed which will again require an experienced owner so as to avoid a complete and utter disaster. Really, a guardian breed with no experience is a huge mistake period.
Another thing to consider is that most dogs, whether owners want to believe it or not, will not attack. I am serious, most dogs will not attack when faced with an aggressive intruder and any intruder who persists in gaining entry to your house when they hear a dog bark is an aggressive intruder. Specialised training is neccessary to ensure that your animal will attack and that is expensive and time consuming as well as a huge responsibility. Also to be considered is that your dog will itself be a child until the age of approximately 18 months and will be relatively useless untill such an age and after training.
Anyway, if you are serious about getting a dog as a family member and beloved pet who can be a personal burglar alarm the breeds that I would reccomend to be with children are: a game bred american pit bull terrier from a reputable breeder ($$$ and will not attack humans but looks formidable) an English staffordshire bull terrier (known as the childrens guardian in England) a boxer which is a great watch dog while being great with kids, a labrador and to is a lesser extent given the experience issues a GSD.
Good luck!

GSDlover_4ever

06-19-2006, 10:22 PM

Another thing to consider is that most dogs, whether owners want to believe it or not, will not attack. I am serious, most dogs will not attack when faced with an aggressive intruder and any intruder who persists in gaining entry to your house when they hear a dog bark is an aggressive intruder. Specialised training is neccessary to ensure that your animal will attack and that is expensive and time consuming as well as a huge responsibility. Also to be considered is that your dog will itself be a child until the age of approximately 18 months and will be relatively useless untill such an age and after training.

Very true.

Anyway, if you are serious about getting a dog as a family member and beloved pet who can be a personal burglar alarm the breeds that I would reccomend to be with children are: a game bred american pit bull terrier from a reputable breeder ($$$ and will not attack humans but looks formidable) an English staffordshire bull terrier (known as the childrens guardian in England) a boxer which is a great watch dog while being great with kids, a labrador and to is a lesser extent given the experience issues a GSD.

An APBT make terrible guard dogs ESPECIALLY ones from reputable breeders. They are not bred for human agression. The pits you see out there attacking are poorly bred ones or are ones who have been victims of these wanna be thugs.

Georgygirl

06-20-2006, 03:22 AM

a game bred american pit bull terrier from a reputable breeder ($$$ and will not attack humans but looks formidable)

The poster said that an APBT will not attack humans. I think they were implying that the LOOK of an APBT would be enough to deter a lot of burglars even though the pit would probably only lick them to death.:) Definitely not a breed for just anyone. I'd do a lot of reseach before getting a pit bull. The breed deserves very responsible and well informed owners. You'd also have to check in on your city's stand on BSL if you think about getting any bully breed.

darkchild16

06-20-2006, 04:14 AM

just in responce to the person who said pits will not attack its not always true i have 2 that yall know me are raised as pets arent ever trained to attack or anything but if someone were to lay a hand on me or enter my house without permission they would attack not tear you to shreds but hold the ankles or something but they are also NOT NOT NOTa breed for a first time owner. Why dont you check your local pound i got my hound mix there and hes got a bark that would keep anyone at bay and if that doesnt work he will hurt you at last resort. But puppys take ALOT of work if you arnt dedicated and dont have alot of time i would not get one.

debbiew

06-20-2006, 03:00 PM

Airdale's are alot of work. I had a wirefox terrier, which is a miniture of Airdale, and she was sooooo much work. I love dogs, and can't live without them, and she was still alot of work. The coat requires so much plucking, you can't just shave them with shears. Anyway, I am sold out on Labs. I have six children the oldest 16, and the youngest 2. My golden is wonderful, but sold out on my lab. He is now seven months old, and is best friend to my little ones. He is very respectful to their size. A healty lab is also low maintenance. No need for professional grooming etc. The biggest problem I have heard about a lab is they can be destructive (chew and destroy things) in their early years. My boy however, has only chewed one thing in his 7 months of life, and never had an accident in the house. I believe it is the way we have raised him (just like a child). Even though he is already 70 lbs, he lives in the house. We have him crate trained from day one, and kept him on a schedule. At 10 at night we look for Cody, and he is already in his crate with the door wide open. He gets LOTS of exersise. His favorite exercise is jumping on the trampoline with my kids. He loves it. While I don't think he would ever bite anyone, I know he would pull anybodies bluff, if you know what I mean. Cody is truly a gentle giant.

corsomom

06-20-2006, 03:52 PM

GDSGregory, I agree with everything you said except the part about getting a game bred pit. I dont think this would be a good choice for a first time dog owner.I would start checking out humane soc. Thats where I found my first dog.She was a great dog and very good watch dog. But again, I would not get a dog just for that reason, I would want a companion that would be loved and taken care of for life.

Renee750il

06-20-2006, 04:35 PM

Gamba, Darkchild and Corsomom have given you some very excellent advice . . . check out the shelters! It's going to be at least a year and a half before a pup is going to be any protection, and, depending on the breed, that long before it's even a deterrent. Look around in the shelters near you. Think about how much room you have for a dog, how much exercise and playtime you will be able to supply, etc. If you've got a moderate amount of room and a fenced yard, an Australian Shepherd or Aussie mix could be a good match . . .

06-20-2006, 04:54 PM

Gempress made a good point about most dogs being a deterrent. I still do not know many people who will dare touch my car when my cute, fuzzy, 40lb dog feels like giving them a scare.

Re: Burglars suing.. that's one of the thing I will not miss if I move to Mexico. That kind of crap just doesn't fly there; if you are bitten by a dog while trespassing, you are to blame - not the dog, not the dog's owners. It will be nice to let my dogs be dogs and not worry about someone pressing charges for their own stupidity.

Renee750il

06-20-2006, 04:58 PM

We don't have much trouble with that sort of attitude here either, RD. If you're trespassing and get your butt munched by the dog it's pretty much your bad luck . . . Worse luck if the owner's home, lol!

good_dog

06-20-2006, 05:32 PM

I wouldn't recommend a APBT, terrier, or guardian breed for a first time owner... and I'd only suggest a lab or a GSD if you had an experienced person to help you find a good breeder and pick the puppy.

Personally, I'd seriously consider a smaller dog with a "big dog" voice. Many beagles or dachsands sound like they weigh 150 lbs when you're on the other side of the door. They make great alarm systems and are a much more manageable temperament... depending on bloodline, of course. Dachsies can be a bit more dominant, but it still should be relatively easy to find a good one. They also mature quicker, and develop that "warn the pack there's an intruder" instinct sooner than a larger breed.

I also might consider a Great Pyrenees. They are great with kids, are good guardians, and are laid-back enough that they avoid all-out confrontation unless absolutely necessary. They also shed mountains of white fluff in the spring, and smaller amounts year round. If you seriously consider this breed, though, you ABSOLUTELY need to get him in obedience classes, both for training and for socialization.

As for bitch vs. dog... In my opinion, bitches tend to protect people while dogs tend to protect territory. Of course, either will be protective when there is a definite threat.

Beth

gdsgregory

06-22-2006, 12:36 PM

The poster said that an APBT will not attack humans. I think they were implying that the LOOK of an APBT would be enough to deter a lot of burglars even though the pit would probably only lick them to death.:) Definitely not a breed for just anyone. I'd do a lot of reseach before getting a pit bull. The breed deserves very responsible and well informed owners. You'd also have to check in on your city's stand on BSL if you think about getting any bully breed.

Georgygirl,
Thats exactly what I meant given that a true game bred animal would be culled if it were to bite a human (at least here in the UK) but nevertheless 90% of "pit bulls" are sadly nowadays "yard dogs" with a distorted temperament which has got the breed a bad reputation.
Also with hindsight I agree that an APBT is not for everyone but my experience with this breed gave me 2 wonderful child safe easily trained bundles of fun. But they were $2,500 each 16 years ago and were true game bred animals. However I will agree with you that I am probably wrong to suggest this breed when generalising to someone with no experience.

Trip

06-22-2006, 03:35 PM

If I were going to get a dog for "security" and I didn't want him/her to bite... been down that road unintentionally and they still want to put my dog down and there is now a muzzle order... I would get a fierce looking noise making dog with a reputation... A pit bull or a rotti are both lovable dogs, sweet to no end to their families but what person in their right mind would break into a home with one, esp if you get an alarm sticker ( don't need the alarm system if too expensive, sticker is a deterrent, also lots of guard dog on duty signs) also they have mock security cameras you can buy or you can make your own. Don't get a dog solely for the reason of home security... it's a nice perk but shouldn't be the main reason... dogs are companion animals, if you want a companion first and a security measure second, then by all means get one with a rep... my best friend has a pit bull and a rotti (not for security, rescues from a pound) and no one would even think of breaking into their house because you can tell by the bark that they mean business... all told any dog, even a med to small dog can be a noisemaker, which is really all you need. If you don't really want a dog, a security system, or just the sticker, good locks and beware of dog signs are pretty good deterrents. Sorry you got me in my education, didn't mean to hold forth...

good_dog

06-22-2006, 05:38 PM

I don't know about where you live, but here you should NOT get a "Beware of Dog" sign if you have a dog.

It's considered admission that you have an aggressive, dangerous dog.

Beth

Trip

06-22-2006, 05:46 PM

I live in Ont, Canada... I had to get one with the muzzle when my dog jumped someone making a delivery when they walked into my house unannounced, hence the been down that road thing...however if you don't have a dog or you have a dog that isn't aggresive it won't be a risk... it' does warn that if you are on premises and aren't supposed to be then there could be consequences. I stand by my theory that if your wanting a dog just for security, and not companionship, a sign and sticker for the windows, works quite well.