Dumbells

[Roxy's CD]

Okay, so my trainer sent me home with a small wooden dumbell yesterday. By next week she wants Roxy to reach up and grab it fast when I tell her to "take it". I've tried getting it in her mouth and giving her a treat. She grabs it, but not as fast as I want her too.

Anyone have any ideas as to how I can get her to "take it" and really want to?!?!?! If she liked taking it, I'm sure she would grab it faster but she's not really interested in the idea of putting that gross, been slobbered on hunk of wood in her mouth! lol

I've tried the, do everything fast tactic. Ex) "Come on Roxy! Ready? Ready? TAKE IT!" and she just looks at me like I'm crazy.

Any ideas?

[LabBreeder]

Usually amping them up works, but I guess not in Roxy's case. :)

Have you tried flavoring it with something she likes and will want to grab quickly?

I really don't know. With Tira, as long as she's "in the mood" to play, you can get a tennis ball, coke bottle, frisbee, etc. and amp her up (Tira, you want it? Want the ball? Ready? Get it!) and she'll go nuts trying to get to it before it ever hits the ground.

[Julie]

Roxy,
I think Redrye posted some info on picking up and holding dumbells a while back. Maybe she would have some ideas.

[DanL]

I agree with the amping up idea, get Roxy super excited and in a mood to play.

[Roxy's CD]

I looked for at all the threads Redyre started... I didn't find anything with dumbell inthe title... I'll look again

[Julie]

I don't remember what the thread was. :)
I think there was even pictures of her dog.
Maybe you could just pm her if you are interested.

[tessa_s212]

I am sorry,for I do not have the time to write out a long explanation to help you teach the dumbell to your dog. If I have time later on, I promise I will get back to you. But if I don't, PMing Redyre would be a good idea.

Whatever you do, do not use the ear pinch. Many people will try to get you to use it, but I *very strongly* urge you to ignore any such advice.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Here is how I did it.

To start you will need an object that is very easy for the dog to grasp and hold. I use a dumb bell. You could use a properly sized dowel or other sort of retrieving dummy.

If you use a piece of doweling, cut it about 8" long.

Get ready MANY MANY pieces of some reallly tasty sort of bait, cut into small pieces.

You will also need something to mark the behavior with. Some people use a clicker. I use the word "YES!"

Make sure you have something cool to drink, and something you like on the TV.

Sit in your favorite chair, with the treats nearby, and the dowel, or dummy, or dumb bell held between your knees. Wait for the dog to come close to the object. Set a target distance of say, 6". When the dog reaches this target distance, mark the behavior, and treat.

The dog will, guaranteed, approach this area again sooner than later. Again, mark and treat.

Every so often, say, for example, every 3 or 4 "marks", take a break from this activity by tossing a treat across the room for the dog to RUN towards.

Next increase your criteria for the behavior by requiring that the dog touch the object to get a marker. Once the dog gets to this point, things usually progress quickly.

Keep this training up ONLY as long as the dog is interested in playing. This varies from individual dog to dog.

Once the dog understands that touching the object gets him a mark and a treat, wow, the game is on. This becomes SO MUCH FUN for the dog, because he feels he is controlling his rewards. (And in a way he is, isn't he?)

Then once again, you withhold when the dog touches the object. NOW you want the dog to touch or lick the BAR of the dumb bell. When a dog reaches a new level and moves up this behavior closer to what you are looking for, you can JACKPOT the dog, and give him several rewards at once.

As you practice marking behaviors and rewarding like this, gradually increase your criteria until the dog is holding the object as you gently release your knee pressure.

Use NO negatives. An exception is a very gentle, mild plain voiced "ah ah" if the dog needs a bit of help away from some behavior you don't want.

When you get to the point the dog is firmly holding the object, you can then start placing it on the floor near your feet.

Now all this time about every 3 or 4th reward, you've been throwing a treat for your dog to run out for. Did you realize you were going to LINK this running after the treat behavior to the dumb bell?

Once the dog is picking up the dumb bell from the floor, and happily delivering it to your hand, you can start gently sliding it across the floor and rewarding the dog for fetching it. Most dogs RAPIDLY progress to running and fetching things you throw with delight.

The last 2 dogs I trained using this method were RUNNING and fetching by the end of the 4th session.

[Roxy's CD]

Tessa - my trainer wants to use the "ear pinch" on her next week, if she doesn't get it down pat. (Roxy is saucy, she knows what we wants from her so sometimes she takes advantage of it)

Thank you so much Redyre. I got really good treats yesterday so I'm going to go do it right now.

The main question I have is, she is already holding the dumbell and taking it. I've tried moving it to the table or floor and she won't touch it! (I think this is because all of the "intense" leave it training. The dogs aren't allowed to touch/eat/take anything that we don't GIVE to them)

Also, yesterday, I saw on one of your older threads the same sort of info, so I was just getting her to touch it, saying yes and giving the treat. She go excited once she figured it out, but started jumping around, barking, dropping and shying her head away from the dumbell. I think this is how she acts when she knows that she's controlling the treats, she knows what I want her to do, and she knows that I won't make her, so she gets all saucy...

Anyway, lol, thanks a lot, I'm off to give it a go! Wish me luck! !~Cadence

[RedyreRottweilers]

Start over.

Do not help her in any way, or give any kind of commands towards the dumb bell.

This is one time when you have to let the dog figure it out on their own.

Trust me on this one, once the "light bulb" goes on for her, you will both have a blast.

My dogs now DANCE when I pick up the dumb bell....as if they are saying PICK ME PICK ME, I WANT TO WORK, PICK ME!!!!

:D

[RedyreRottweilers]

If she takes too long to come towards the dumb bell, reduce your "criteria".

Mark and reward any time she comes towards you, or looks at the dumb bell.

You want to find as many reasons to mark and reward her really fast in the early stages as you can. You can then RAISE your criteria, and she will work to find out what makes you "click".

;)

[Roxy's CD]

Ok, *information uploaded* LOL

Maybe I just need to let it be for a couple days, I've been working at it a lot and I think she's getting bored.

It's just she's picked everything else up so quickly, I know that when we go to her private Wednesday my coach will expect her to have it down pat. (I'm one of the only clients she has that doesn't show yet that does my homework every week).

I think I'll just start over... forget the taking it, she does take it but very reluctulantly. I want her to enjoy it! That's the only reason we go to school, because she has so much fun, but this she doesn't seem to really like... Maybe if I keep pumping her full of treats every time she touches it she'll learn to love it..lol

Thanks again, all the info is much appreciated

Cadence

[doberkim]

if she is overreacting and not getting a reward, i dont think she understands that "she controls the treats" because 99% of dogs, if they understand they control the treats, in a situation with little distraction, will WORK to get those treats.

if she is doing other things, she is frustrated and doesnt understand what is expected of her, IME.

[Roxy's CD]

LOL. Now being frusterated! I can agree with that after yesterday! LOL

Redyre we started right back at square one. I reduced my critieria to just looking at the dumbell. Within an hour we'd gone through (so by the end I felt that she fully understood the criteria=treat) looking at the dumbell, heading towards the dumbell, touching it (anywhere), moving towards the dumbell and touching it, touching it (where her mouth will eventually go) and finally, I had her just opening her mouth, not holding it or even grabbing it, but just putting her mouth over the bar.

I'm just going to start another session right now to see if she remembers!

[RedyreRottweilers]

***APPLAUSE***

I'm so glad you tried this with her.

:D

I'm anxiously awaiting another update. I just love this sort of training....

[Roxy's CD]

Ahh..your still on here. So before I tell you what I've been doing I must say that my nickname from my trainer is "the girl who wanted everything yesterday". LOL. That being said, as I posted above that was what I had her doing yesterday.

Just now, I went quickly over approaching the dumbell and touching it. She had it dead on. As Doberkim said, she must not have completely had it if she wasn't doing it... well she knows now! As soon as I said yes, she looked for me for a treat, and than before I could even get it in her mouth BOOM right back touching the dumbell.

So after it was very clear that got touch dumbell=get treat. I moved it to the floor, (in front of me, a couple feet away etc) It took her a minute for this one, but once she figured it out, BOOM she was constantly over touching the dumbell. So I raised the criteria to putting her mouth on it. Well, she beat me to it! I had the dumbell about 3 feet dead in front of me. She went picked it up, brought it back to me and sat, I said give it. Then YES!! She got a whole handful of treats! LOL

So we did this a couple of times, and I moved to the dining room where I can throw the dumbell about 8-10 feet. I did not tell her to wait at first but made it seem like fetch. No problems whatsoever. I threw it, she went and got it, brought it back, sat in front and waited for me to say "give it". Than of course, once again she got a huge YES! and lots of treats.

We did this probably 3 or 4 times. Then I told her to "wait", I threw the dumbell, waited until it stopped moving, and said "Take it!". Off like a bullet she went! Same thing, brought it right back to me, sat in front and held it until I grabbed it and told her to give it!

So, I'm going to let her relax for a bit and try again in an hour or two, to see if she remembers.

Thank you so much Redyre!!!! Your advice has saved Roxy from the "ear pinch"!! LOL. I get so impatient sometimes when she doesn't pick something up quickly because she usually does, obviously, trying to force the dumbell in her mouth (that's what my trainer had said to do, force it in there, make her hold it than reward) didn't work for her.

This method is a way so THEY chose to take the dumbell themselves. In 2 days it's amazing, but I think she's got it!

The one minor thing I found wrong, was once when I threw the dumbell, she didn't hold onto it in the proper place, she grabbed the end of the dumbell. Should I correct her for that? When she came back to me, I said a very soft "no", and put the dumbell in her mouth properly, and she didn't get as many treats as she had been getting (I'm so impressed with her work today that everytime she brings the dumbell back she's been getting like, 6 treats as opposed to 1!) LOL

[RedyreRottweilers]

I am beaming.

You have made my day.

I told the friend who helped me find this method when I was having trouble with a dog who did not take to the force methods, that SOMEDAY I would help someone else, to pay her back.

I consider her paid.

GO ROXY!!!!

One thing that can help is go back to holding it between your knees and help her work on holding it calmly, and waiting until you both hands on it and say OUT to release it.

DOn't worry about her picking it up by the ends. It's much easier to use the bar, and she will choose to do it that way eventually.

:D

[RedyreRottweilers]

Oh, by the way, I would not tell your trainer at first how you did this.

LMAO....

;)

[JennSLK]

Thanx for posting it again Red. I want Jazz to be in competive OB so thi is going to help ALOT.

Is it to early to start her on this? She's 4 months old but I feal it would be a fun thing to train. Well more fun than downs and sits.

[Roxy's CD]

I even made a video I'm soo happy! LOL

Keep in mind, we just started last Wednesday, and didn't really have any luck until yesterday with, thanks to Redyre on Saturday, today being Sunday i am super impressed.

Excuse my happy screaming "yeses!" LOL, I can barely contain myself!.

You might want to turn your volume down a bit...LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJZ3OkhPG5I

[RedyreRottweilers]

Ok, just watched your vid.

SUPER work.

A couple of hints....

for the next day or so, STOP asking her for any sort of sit, etc. STOP saying come when she turns around. as she STARTS IN, say YES YES!!, kneel down, and spread your arms wide open. As soon as she gets there, grab that DB out of her mouth, and jackpot her. WHEEE!!!!

If she will play tug, do that with the DB. Make it into a toy. I do this with all my puppies. They LOVE to bring me an object, because it means we are going to PLAY with it. You can practice this with other things besides the DB too, softer toys that are fun to tug with.

Play often with her just FUN, tossing, playing, fetching, tugging, keeping it really upbeat.

Many novice trainers want to work on fronts, or holds, etc, after the dog comes in on a retrieve or a recall, and this will SLOW them down.

Remember what you are working on, which, right now, is the RUN out, the QUICK pickup, and the RUN in.

If she keeps on kicking with her feet before she "scoops" it up, let me know, you won't want to let that go on for long. (you put her on leash to stop it, let her go out only a SHORT distance, and food reward ONLY the best "grabs". You can also work very close up on her reaching and really GRABBING for it up close. this will also help with her pickup.)

DON'T rush for distance. If you have issues anywhere, go one step back and work up again.

You've made GREAT progress tho, you should be VERY proud.

:D

[Roxy's CD]

LOL @ her kicking it! She's a soccer dog! With balls any kind of toys she kicks them around picks them up and throws them etc. She wasn't doing it everytime, I think part of it too, is the hardwood, so when she tries to stop quickly, she slides and hits it, then says "Hey! This is fun!" LOL

I'm gonna take a break for a couple of hours today, maybe a quick refresher tonight :) Thanks again.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Oh, I should clarify....

One thing to work on to REALLY help with the pickup/grab is to HOLD the dumb bell in your hand, starting at about eye level with her, and REALLY encourage her to JUMP out there and GRAB it.

Gradually RAISE the height of the DB until she is JUMPING UP in the air to get it, and really going for the GRAB.

That will probably in itself fix your kicking/playing issue with the DB, plus they LOVE that game.

:D