Can you guess what breed of dog is this?

[Bowowee]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/ajstarla/rio006.jpg

Can you guess what breed of dog is this? Any comments?

[SummerRiot]

Is this your new Staff?

[Bowowee]

Nope. Its not mine. I just want to hear your comments about this dog. Its a very contreversial dog here in my country. Can you guess what breed it is?

[Chrissy&B]

Well it looks like an American Staffordshire Terrier to me.....

[JFrick]

Looks like a Pit Bull to me....

[Bailey+Ralph]

Amstaff?

[casablanca1]

Something about it just reminds me of a Neopolitan Mastiff.

[oc_spirit]

Looks like an AmStaff/Neo cross to me...

[suzanne118]

pitt bull/bull masiff

[Bowowee]

This is really getting interesting. Keep em comin folks. I really want to get your feedback on this.

[SummerRiot]

Do you know what breed it is?

[Cassiepeia]

Maybe a Bandog?

Cass.

[Bowowee]

Do you know what breed it is?

Yes I know. This is a very controversial dog. Thats why I need your opinion on this because Chazhound is neutral grounds. Can you guess what breed of dog is this? Any comments? Thank you.

[jess2416]

Yes I know. This is a very controversial dog. Thats why I need your opinion on this because Chazhound is neutral grounds. Can you guess what breed of dog is this? Any comments? Thank you.

We have been guessing??? what is it..

[LabBreeder]

i'd say amstaff, pit bull or the neo/amstaff...now what's the big deal? :) seriously, not sarcastically...i'd like to know.

[Bowowee]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/ajstarla/Picture338.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/ajstarla/rio006.jpg

This is an American Pit Bull Terrier. He is United Pitbull Club Grand Champ Capone. Do you think he conforms with the UKC Standard for APBTs? Does he look like a Pit/Neo, or Pit/Bullmastiff cross? Does he look like an Amstaff? There has been an ongoing debate about this dog here in our country. Please share your views regarding this matter. Your views will be highly appreciated. Thank you.

[Sheka]

Looks like a pit to me, exept he looks alot Bigger than the ones we have here and i think it has longer legs also. , longer neck 2. Just looks...BIGGER lol. Maybe its the ears, but he looks a lil less Friendly/goofy to me as the ones that have their ears natural, i dunno why.

[Sheka]

That Panda In Ur Sig Is Adorable!

[Bowowee]

Looks like a pit to me, exept he looks alot Bigger than the ones we have here and i think it has longer legs also. , longer neck 2. Just looks...BIGGER lol. Maybe its the ears, but he looks a lil less Friendly/goofy to me as the ones that have their ears natural, i dunno why.

Thanks for your comments. The reason why I'm askin it here is because I'm confused with all the controversies regarding this dog. Some say its a sharpei/pit mix, some say presa canario/pit mix, some say it doesn't deserved to be champ and the reason why this dog became champ is because of the influence of the owner since he is currently the President of a big pitbull club. I can't post it in the local websites coz it would cause a lot of turmoil between the oppossing parties. Thats why I'm seekin the guidance of the experienced and nice peeps of Chazhound. Thank you I hope you could enlighten me further on this.

[Bowowee]

That Panda In Ur Sig Is Adorable!

Thank you. It never get tired of tumblin.:)

[jess2416]

IMO...there is something about his face that screams he is NOT 100% pitbull

[LabBreeder]

check out this link and let me know if there are any resemblences or if i'm just nuts...look at the black one further down the page.
http://www.danesonline.com/pic.htm

[JennSLK]

He looks to "jowly" to me

[Georgygirl]

I'm betting there's some mastiff in there. He's just to big and bulky for a pit. He's not game looking at all. He looks like a mastiff with short legs.

This is a pit bull
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/jakemp/red.jpg

[Bowowee]

Keep em comin its great to be enlightened. I'm learning a lot from y'all.

[Chrissy&B]

I don't know, I still think he looks like an American Staffordshire Terrier. He looks like the ones you might see in show rings here in Europe. Big, muscular, broad head, strong jaws and bones...... he's awesome if you ask me!! :D

[Georgygirl]

This is a photo of Amstaffs. I honestly think that he's too big for even an amstaff. That's the problem with amstaffs and pitbulls. People are starting to breed them bigger and bigger.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/jakemp/IMG_5008.jpg


This is what some people are trying to pass off as a pitbull. The pit bull I posted above could run circles around this monster. It's disgusting what people are doing to the breed.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/jakemp/lobo7.gif

[MK&C]

His head looks too blocky/boxy to be a %100 purbred pit, IMO.

[Bowowee]

This dog created a lot of controversy here in the Philippines when it was given its grand champ title. In your opinion bros and sis, do you think this Pitbull deserves its title and is it a great example of the Pitbull breed?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/ajstarla/Picture338.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/ajstarla/rio006.jpg

[oc_spirit]

I''m sticking with Neo/Amstaff

What has likely happened is that a breeder threw in some Neo blood to get bulkier dogs then bred back to AmStaff for 7 generations so that the offspring could be deemed purebred AmStaff once more. This happens an astonishingly often amount of times in various breeds. Breeders will throw in another breed with traits that they think their current breed is losing on or would make their breed greater and then breed the puppies that carry those desred traits back to the original breed.

[LabBreeder]

I don't know if he should have won or not. If he's not pure pit (as we all pretty much seem to think) then he didn't deserve it. Are your standards for pit bulls different in the Phillipines? I thought dog breed standards were supposed to be the same wherever you went? :confused:

[Bowowee]

I don't know if he should have won or not. If he's not pure pit (as we all pretty much seem to think) then he didn't deserve it. Are your standards for pit bulls different in the Phillipines? I thought dog breed standards were supposed to be the same wherever you went? :confused:

Here in the Philippines we follow the UKC Standard.

[Bowowee]

I''m sticking with Neo/Amstaff

What has likely happened is that a breeder threw in some Neo blood to get bulkier dogs then bred back to AmStaff for 7 generations so that the offspring could be deemed purebred AmStaff once more. This happens an astonishingly often amount of times in various breeds. Breeders will throw in another breed with traits that they think their current breed is losing on or would make their breed greater and then breed the puppies that carry those desred traits back to the original breed.

A lot of people has the same observation.

[oc_spirit]

LabBreeder, that''s the thing, technically he would be a purebred if the pedigree is only AmStaff for 7 generations.

[Bowowee]

The UKC Standard

AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER
Official U.K.C. Breed Standard
Revised October 21, 2004


General Appearance


The American Pit Bull Terrier is a medium-sized, solidly built, short-coated dog with smooth, well-defined musculature. This breed is both powerful and athletic. The body is just slightly longer than tall, but bitches may be somewhat longer in body than dogs. The length of the front leg (measured from point of elbow to the ground) is approximately equal to one-half of the dog's height at the withers. The head is of medium length, with a broad, flat skull, and a wide, deep muzzle. Ears are small to medium in size, high set, and may be natural or cropped. The relatively short tail is set low, thick at the base and tapers to a point. The American Pit Bull Terrier comes in all colors and color patterns. This breed combines strength and athleticism with grace and agility and should never appear bulky or muscle-bound or fine-boned and rangy.


Characteristics


The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed's natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work.

The American Pit Bull Terrier has always been capable of doing a wide variety of jobs so exaggerations or faults should be penalized in proportion to how much they interfere with the dog's versatility.


Head


The APBT head is unique and a key element of breed type. It is large and broad, giving the impression of great power, but it is not disproportionate to the size of the body. Viewed from the front, the head is shaped like a broad, blunt wedge. When viewed from the side, the skull and muzzle are parallel to one another and joined by a well defined, moderately deep stop. Supraorbital arches over the eyes are well defined but not pronounced. The head is well chiseled, blending strength, elegance, and character.

SKULL - The skull is large, flat or slightly rounded, deep, and broad between the ears. Viewed from the top, the skull tapers just slightly toward the stop. There is a deep median furrow that diminishes in depth from the stop to the occiput. Cheek muscles are prominent but free of wrinkles. When the dog is concentrating, wrinkles form on the forehead, which give the APBT his unique expression.

MUZZLE - The muzzle is broad and deep with a very slight taper from the stop to the nose, and a slight falling away under the eyes. The length of muzzle is shorter than the length of skull, with a ratio of approximately 2:3. The topline of the muzzle is straight. The lower jaw is well developed, wide and deep. Lips are clean and tight.

Faults: Snipey muzzle; flews; weak lower jaw.

TEETH - The American Pit Bull Terrier has a complete set of evenly spaced, white teeth meeting in a scissors bite.

Fault: Level bite.

Serious Faults: Undershot, or overshot bite; wry mouth; missing teeth (this does not apply to teeth that have been lost or removed by a veterinarian).

NOSE - The nose is large with wide, open nostrils. The nose may be any color.

EYES - Eyes are medium size, round to almond-shaped, and set well apart and low on the skull. All colors are equally acceptable except blue, which is a serious fault. Haw should not be visible.

Serious Faults: Bulging eyes; both eyes not matched in color; blue eyes.

EARS - Ears are high set and may be natural or cropped without preference. If natural, semi-prick or rose are preferred. Prick or flat, wide ears are not desired.


Neck


The neck is of moderate length and muscular. There is a slight arch at the crest. The neck widens gradually from where it joins the skull to where it blends into well laid-back shoulders. The skin on the neck is tight and without dewlap.

Faults: Neck too short and thick; thin or weak neck; ewe neck; dewlap.


Forequarters


The shoulder blades are long, wide, muscular, and well laid back. The upper arm is roughly equal in length to the shoulder blade and joins it at an apparent right angle.

The forelegs are strong and muscular. The elbows are set close to the body. Viewed from the front, the forelegs are set moderately wide apart and perpendicular to the ground. The pasterns are short, powerful, straight, and flexible. When viewed in profile, the pasterns are nearly erect.

Faults: Upright or loaded shoulders; elbows turned outward or tied-in; down at the pasterns; front legs bowed; wrists knuckled over; toeing in or out.


Body


The chest is deep, well filled in, and moderately wide with ample room for heart and lungs, but the chest should never be wider than it is deep. The forechest does not extend much beyond the point of shoulder. The ribs extend well back and are well sprung from the spine, then flattening to form a deep body extending to the elbows. The back is strong and firm. The topline inclines very slightly downward from the withers to a broad, muscular, level back. The loin is short, muscular and slightly arched to the top of the croup, but narrower than the rib cage and with a moderate tuck-up. The croup is slightly sloping downward.


Hindquarters


The hindquarters are strong, muscular, and moderately broad. The rump is well filled in on each side of the tail and deep from the pelvis to the crotch. The bone, angulation, and musculature of the hindquarters are in balance with the forequarters. The thighs are well developed with thick, easily discerned muscles. Viewed from the side, the hock joint is well bent and the rear pasterns are well let down and perpendicular to the ground. Viewed from the rear, the rear pasterns are straight and parallel to one another.
Faults: Narrow hindquarters; hindquarters shallow from pelvis to crotch; lack of muscle; straight or over angulated stifle joint; cow hocks; sickle hocks; bowed legs.


Feet


The feet are round, proportionate to the size of the dog, well arched, and tight. Pads are hard, tough, and well cushioned. Dewclaws may be removed.

Fault: Splayed feet.


Tail


The tail is set on as a natural extension of the topline, and tapers to a point. When the dog is relaxed, the tail is carried low and extends approximately to the hock. When the dog is moving, the tail is carried level with the backline. When the dog is excited, the tail may be carried in a raised, upright position (challenge tail), but never curled over the back (gay tail).

Fault: Long tail (tail tip passes beyond point of hock).

Serious faults: Gay tail (not to be confused with challenge tail); kinked tail.

Disqualification: Bobbed tail.


Coat


The coat is glossy and smooth, close, and moderately stiff to the touch.

Faults: Curly, wavy, or sparse coat.

Disqualification: Long coat.


Color


Any color, color pattern, or combination of colors is acceptable, except for merle.

Disqualification: Merle


Height and Weight


The American Pit Bull Terrier must be both powerful and agile so actual weight and height are less important than the correct proportion of weight to height. Desirable weight for a mature male in good condition is between 35 and 60 pounds. Desirable weight for a mature female in good condition is between 30 and 50 pounds. Dogs over these weights are not to be penalized unless they are disproportionately massive or rangy.


Gait


The American Pit Bull Terrier moves with a jaunty, confident attitude, conveying the impression that he expects any minute to see something new and exciting. When trotting, the gait is effortless, smooth, powerful, and well coordinated, showing good reach in front and drive behind. When moving, the backline remains level with only a slight flexing to indicate suppleness. Viewed from any position, legs turn neither in nor out, nor do feet cross or interfere with each other. As speed increases, feet tend to converge toward center line of balance.

Faults: Legs not moving on the same plane; legs over reaching; legs crossing over in front or rear; rear legs moving too close or touching; rolling; pacing; paddling; sidewinding; hackney action; pounding.


Disqualifications


Unilateral or bilateral cryptorchid. Viciousness or extreme shyness. Unilateral or bilateral deafness. Bobbed tail. Albinism. Merle.

Note: Although some level of dog aggression is characteristic of this breed, handlers will be expected to comply with U.K.C. policy regarding dog temperament at U.K.C. events

[Bowowee]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/ajstarla/Picture338.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/ajstarla/rio006.jpg

What do you think bros and sis?

[Georgygirl]

If you want some opinions from people who really know pitbulls I'd post that pic on this pit bull forum http://www.pitbullforum.com

You'll also be able to see some good examples of pit bulls on that site.

IMO that's not a pure pit by any stretch of the imagination.

[Bowowee]

If you want some opinions from people who really know pitbulls I'd post that pic on this pit bull forum http://www.pitbullforum.com

You'll also be able to see some good examples of pit bulls on that site.

IMO that's not a pure pit by any stretch of the imagination.

Thank you I will post there as well. I still want to get the opinion of Chazhound peeps though.:)

[Saje]

There are plenty of people here who know pitbulls well. I guess that is a pitbull then Bowowee? Why don't you tell the story behind it?

[LabBreeder]

Bowowee hasn't really said much Saje. All I know is the dog is supposed to be a purebred Pit Bull that won a championship in the Phillipines and there is alot of controversy surround the win because people there don't think he's pure either. (I think that's all of it.)

So, even though another dog gets "mixed in", after 7 generations it's considered pure again? Man, that's weird. You'd think that as long as there were signs (physically) of another breed that it couldn't be considered pure again. Hmmmm...go figure. :)

[Georgygirl]

There are plenty of people here who know pitbulls well.


Gee, I hope it doesn't look like I don't think there are people here who know pitbulls. :o I'm sorry if it looked like that. It just seemed like Bowowee wanted more opinions and I thought he might get some more on the pit bull forum.

[Bowowee]

There are plenty of people here who know pitbulls well. I guess that is a pitbull then Bowowee? Why don't you tell the story behind it?

This Pitbull is owned by Dr. Jay Geronimo, President of the Philippine Pitbull Club. This dog earned his Champ title in one of the Pitbull Clubs here. A lot of Pitbull experts and enthusiast here are claiming that this dog is a crossbreed and if ever it is a pitbull, it does not deserve to be champ. I can't post this question in the local forums coz I dont want to cause any turmoil. That why I'm askin for you comments here. Since the peeps at chaz are neutral and experts when it comes to dogs. Please help. Thank you.

[Saje]

Well I don't show but doesn't he need papers to prove that he is a purebred?

[Bowowee]

Well I don't show but doesn't he need papers to prove that he is a purebred?

The dog is UKC registered. Thats why I'm puzzled why he looks different. A lot of peeps both in my place and also here at Chaz made comments that he has neo mastiff blood in him, some are saying that he is amstaff, and some peeps even said that he is part sharpei.

[Cassiepeia]

What ever he is he clearly doesn't conform to the standard you posted. His head looks too big and almost out of proportion (at least IMO), his feet look to me like they're flat and splayed and his lips certainly don't look 'clean & tight'. He also looks too heavy.

I'm no judge but he just doesn't seem like he should have won anything in conformation.

Cass.

[Bowowee]

Do you think this is a perfect example of the Pitbull breed?

[Red_ACD_for_me]

Personally, I think he is quite an UGLY specimen of the breed. I don't like his face and muzzle and he definatley looks like a mix of some sort. Just my two cents :D

[Chrissy&B]

The dog is UKC registered. Thats why I'm puzzled why he looks different. A lot of peeps both in my place and also here at Chaz made comments that he has neo mastiff blood in him, some are saying that he is amstaff, and some peeps even said that he is part sharpei.
Hey, I have a question.... Since Philipines are a member of FCI and
therefore this is the only official registry there (same as Europe and other countries) I was wondering how come this breed that is not recognized by either one of major registries (such as FCI, KC, AKC) can actually be shown? All the European shows (Asian as well) are held and jidged by FCI, so I'm a bit confused :confused: ....... what is UKC? I have never heard of it, so can someone explain? :) If your dog is registered by this club, can you show him on all the major shows such as Crufts, Westminster and such?

[Bowowee]

Hey, I have a question.... Since Philipines are a member of FCI and
therefore this is the only official registry there (same as Europe and other countries) I was wondering how come this breed that is not recognized by either one of major registries (such as FCI, KC, AKC) can actually be shown? All the European shows (Asian as well) are held and jidged by FCI, so I'm a bit confused :confused: ....... what is UKC? I have never heard of it, so can someone explain? :) If your dog is registered by this club, can you show him on all the major shows such as Crufts, Westminster and such?

Philippine Canine Club Incorpoted is a member of FCI. The local pitbull clubs here are not in anyway affiliated with PCCI. UKC is also a big club in the US like AKC. I dont know if they're also a member of FCI. To find out more about UKC you may go to www.ukcdogs.com

The local pitbull clubs has no UKC affiliation yet but they are currently workin on it. We've been using the UKC Standard as basis for the judging.

[Chrissy&B]

But as far as I know, the only registry worth registering your dogs with (I'm talking about US now) is AKC. This is the only one that is accepted by FCI or KC in UK. All official dog shows are held by either one of theose registries, so I'd only trust them,,...... after all, they are the ones that have long tradition and they are the ones who basically wrote down all the standards. But as I am realizing these days, there are loads of clubs being established over night and for a certain fee you can register any dog you want.
FCI tracks generations back and you actually know where your dog comes from. :) I was just a bit surprised how anyone can just start a new Club and that's it. Interesting!!! Well, I still trust the good old FCI the most :D ...... at least I know that it's been there for ages and it will probably be there in the future as well.

[Bowowee]

But as far as I know, the only registry worth registering your dogs with (I'm talking about US now) is AKC. This is the only one that is accepted by FCI or KC in UK. All official dog shows are held by either one of theose registries, so I'd only trust them,,...... after all, they are the ones that have long tradition and they are the ones who basically wrote down all the standards. But as I am realizing these days, there are loads of clubs being established over night and for a certain fee you can register any dog you want.
FCI tracks generations back and you actually know where your dog comes from. :) I was just a bit surprised how anyone can just start a new Club and that's it. Interesting!!! Well, I still trust the good old FCI the most :D ...... at least I know that it's been there for ages and it will probably be there in the future as well.

Here's an info about UKC, got it from their website.
United Kennel Club...who we are...

With 300,000 registrations annually, the United Kennel Club is the world’s largest performance dog registry and second oldest all-breed registry in the United States. Founded in 1898, the UKC has supported the "Total Dog" philosophy through its events and programs for over a century. As a departure from registries that place emphasis on a dog’s looks, UKC events are designed for dogs that look and perform equally well.

Our mission is to be the world's best registry of purebred dogs, to offer our customers the most efficient and creative services possible, to use our data to help our customers breed the best dogs in the world and to create a wide spectrum of performance and conformation events in which those dogs can prove their instincts and heritage.

The programs at UKC include Obedience Trials, Agility Trials, Weight Pull Events, Terrier Races, Earth Work Events, Total Junior Program, Dog Sports (including Family Obedience), Coonhound Field Trials, Water Races, Nite Hunts and Bench Shows, Hunt Tests for retrieving breeds, Pointing Dog Events, Beagle Events (including Hunts and Bench Shows, and Cur and Feist Squirrel and Coon Events and Bench Shows.

Rounding out the 'Total Dog' package, UKC Conformation Events are among our largest growing events. UKC dog shows are family events designed by and for the breeder-owner-handler. Professional Handlers are not eligible to exhibit dogs for others at UKC Conformation Events. At UKC dog shows, the emphasis is on the DOG, not the SHOW.

Part of our mission is to have events where all dogs can compete. In addition to our purebred dog registry, United Kennel Club offers a Limited Privilege program. The Limited Privilege is open to all dogs that are spayed/neutered. This includes mixed breed dogs, purebred dogs of unknown pedigree, and purebred dogs with disqualifying faults as described in the UKC breed standards. The programs open to Limited Privilege dogs are Obedience Trials, Weight Pulls, Agility Trials, Total Junior Program and Dog Sports (including Family Obedience).

It is our firm belief that the right balance between performance and conformation results in healthier happier dogs for everyone. We are proud that we share that same philosophy with our growing number of dedicated participants.

Essentially, the UKC world of dogs is a working world. That's the way it was developed over a century ago, and that's the way it remains today.

Its a little offtopic. Thanks for your comment though.

[Georgygirl]

The UKC is the second oldest all breed club in the U.S. It was founded in 1898 so it's been around for awhile and I doubt it will be going anywhere any time soon.

The programs at UKC include Obedience Trials, Agility Trials, Weight Pull Events, Terrier Races, Earth Work Events, Total Junior Program, Dog Sports (including Family Obedience), Coonhound Field Trials, Water Races, Nite Hunts and Bench Shows, Hunt Tests for retrieving breeds, Pointing Dog Events, Beagle Events (including Hunts and Bench Shows, and Cur and Feist Squirrel and Coon Events and Bench Shows.


It doesn't seem like a bad registry to me like the ones that register mixes. Just because the AKC doesn't recognize the APBT doesn't mean that it isn't a breed worth being shown.

[rottiegirl]

I think that dog is a horrible specimen of the breed. He is way too bulky, and bull dog looking. His head is too blocky. Pits are supposed to be athletic and quick on their feet. That dog is not pure pit in my opinion.

I wonder how much he weighs. Looks to be atleast over 80 pounds. That is pretty sad. Here is the problem... people want bigger dogs now days. Its all about looks. They want pit bullls to look more like slow mastiffs than quick terriers. I dont know why they call am staffs terriers anymore.

Poor bloodlines are ruining the pit bull breed. Razors edge and gotti line are two of the most popular lines, but they are two of the worst lines out there.

[Bowowee]

I think that dog is a horrible specimen of the breed. He is way too bulky, and bull dog looking. His head is too blocky. Pits are supposed to be athletic and quick on their feet. That dog is not pure pit in my opinion.

I wonder how much he weighs. Looks to be atleast over 80 pounds. That is pretty sad. Here is the problem... people want bigger dogs now days. Its all about looks. They want pit bullls to look more like slow mastiffs than quick terriers. I dont know why they call am staffs terriers anymore.

Poor bloodlines are ruining the pit bull breed. Razors edge and gotti line are two of the most popular lines, but they are two of the worst lines out there.

Thanks for your comment Rottie. I'm learning a lot here.

[rottiegirl]

Thanks for your comment Rottie. I'm learning a lot here.
Here is a site you might be interested in. It is a great pit forum with lots of info. esspecialy on different bloodlines.

http://www.game-dog.com/forums/