*rant* Hades lesson tonight :(

[Roxy's CD]

So Hades group lessons are every Tuesday night and there were 2 other dogs there tonight. He has his lesson once a week and everyday for about 10-20 minutes each I do obedience with them at home. Sits/downs/stays/waits/go outs etc.

So at his lesson today he was doing very well. (He growls and snarls in the waiting room and was very nervous his first group, but he's settled down) We did, heeling, stays, stand for examination, recall..etc. When it came to his downs i got SO FRUSTERATED!!!!!!!!!

We were making them sit, going out to the end of leash calling them and they were supposed to drop, it's the beginnings to the recall drop. HE WOULDN'T DROP!! AHHH! So I kind of went back to the basics and lead him down to the floor. So with the recall drops their front end is supposed to go down before the back so they don't sit then lie down. He would just drop his front end and keep his but in the air!! Ahh! Have you ever been in a lesson when everyone elses dog is getting it and yours just seems like the "special" one?!?!

I just wanted to leave sooo bad. I work with this stupid dog every day and his downs just aren't getting any better. I'll have him sit and then lead him down with a treat. PROBLEM: He still puppy sits, with his legs off to one side, so when I tell him down, if he decides to, he slowly slides his front end down.... I did the leash thing with Roxy and she figured it out just like that! My trainer has already drilled me about comparing the two animals but I just can't help it! Especially seeing as I work with him so much...arg...

He did so well at everything else too but I just couldn't let it go. I know he's still young, but *sigh* I just expect him to be as smart as Roxy....

Are there any other ways to teach the down? I've tried leading him down with the treat, stepping on the leash.... I want a good solid, quick drop out of'em... I'm just about ready to give up on him and focus on Roxy, she learns faster and she LIKES to learn. With Hades all that seems to happen is my blood pressure sky rockets....

[RedyreRottweilers]

I teach a random down out of motion once the dog has an understanding of down.

I get lots of food, put the dog on leash, and just move out with the dog. Every so often I turn left right into the dog, put my left foot between the dogs from legs so he can't come forward, and physically help him to down REALLY FAST. Then LOTS Of food rewards.

As I do this, I give the down hand signal, taking my right hand straight up in the air, arm straight, palm forward, fingers pointing up as a traffic cop would hold his hand to stop traffic. I let the dog see this for a second before I help him to down and jackpot him.

This rapidly becomes a game for the dog/puppy. We trot and play and the dog learns SO quickly to HIT THE DECK when you start to turn into him and your hand goes up.

Then you can switch it to dropping the dog every so often when you are playing fetch, etc.

I have also shaped the down using a "touch stick" and clicker techniques.

I took a flat piece of molding about 36" wide, and covered it with duct tape.

I then laid this in my LR floor, and waited for the dog to approach it. This did not take long, and when the dog touched it, I clicked and treated.

Within minutes, I had the dog putting her chin on the touch stick. (they love these games)

In about a week, she was running in and sliding to a stop to put her chin on the touch stick, watching me with tail wagging and ears up, waiting for me to call her the rest of the way in for her reward.

Then I added in the hand signal, and "faded" the touch stick, making it smaller and smaller until it was gone.

Dogs trained the drop on recall this way are SPECTACULAR in the ring, and they almost never miss a drop.

:D

[Roxy's CD]

How do you "help him into the down"? I've been told to NOT push on his shoulders, so how do you help him? THe collar?

[RedyreRottweilers]

I mainly use the food, RCD, but some dogs do need a little help with the collar.

I try to use as little body touching as possible. That's why I LOVE capturing behaviors, and using a marker to teach the dog what I'm looking for.

:D

[StillandSilent]

I think everyone has a class where their dog just won't act right. When I was training a dog for our shelter, we had one night from the depths of hades. He wouldn't listen at all, no interest in the treats or toys, attempting to dominate (both by growling and humping) the other dogs, you name it, he did it. Then on the ride home, he was just looking at me with that "aren't you proud of me, Mom?" grin. His next lessons went fine though. Just hang in there, Perry ended up graduating at the top of his class.

[Roxy's CD]

LOL@ growling and humping. Thanks for sharing and reliving how horrible that night must have been. It makes me feel better :)

Red I just put him on his leash and kind of "hurried" doing everything. I was hoping it would get the message through to him that everything had to be done quick! lol, if that makes any sense. It worked for the first 5 minutes and than he went back to his old self. Maybe he's just burnt out.

[RedyreRottweilers]

RCD, one of the best instructors I ever had gave me some very good advice about dog training:

DON'T TRAIN FOR THE MISTAKE.

If the dog gets it right, QUIT!!!

Reward him big, and go on to something else.

Don't keep doing it until he screws it up again.

;)

[elegy]

when i was working on speeding up downs with luce, i did it with play. she loves the tug toy, so i got that out and we played tug and practiced downs at the same time. she wanted the tug toy baaaaaaad so i'd get lots of quick downs because she wanted it now now now and it gave me lots of opportunity to reward quick downs.

i know when i get frustrated and upset, it upsets my dog and she gets slower and sulkier. sometimes you just need to take a break.

[poodlesmom]

I have come across a couple of dogs who had difficulty learning the moving drop. I think it is a combination of not only you being a distance away but the fact that it is a moving down. What I found helped alot was teaching them to down from a distance. Leave him on a sit/stay and walk away a short distance and give then give just the down command. As he catches on increase the distance until you are across the room from him. Once he gets consistent with that give him a sit/stay, walk 1/2 way across, call and then drop. If he doesn't drop immediately take a step in and repeat the command. Once he is down, then back up a few steps and call him. Sometimes it takes trial & error to figure out what will turn on the lightbulb in the brain of a particular dog. As you have seen a method that works for one quite well may not work at all for another.

[RedyreRottweilers]

PM I would do it just the opposite.

I would teach the dog UP CLOSE, and THEN add distance.

If the dog is halfway across the room and does not understand the drop command, how do you enforce that?

:D