Lab breeders... question!

[canadianmandy]

You all know my dog had puppies. Well half of them looked like black labs. Well I had them advertized in flyers in our local store. I had the weirdest call thee other day. Some lady called saying she saw my flier. so we started asking the questions to see if she was right for a puppy. Well she kept saying do you have the balck lab ones and I was like yeah. She was like well I have two black lab puppies that I found on the side of the road. I literally dropped the phone and ran outside (I had them playing in their pen outside) They were all their but my heart was freakin. I went back to the phone and told her so and asked were she found them .. It was 8 miles from here! She had two. I was going to offer to take them and try to find them homes (since I was already doing it) But she is an animal rescue. I asked her if it was going to be easy to find them homes and she said no b/c they are black and that no one wants black dogs. That marked ones and lighter colored ones did better. ( I asked the question.. will they be put down? She said they would not . So after I am done with Jill (the last puppy) If I still get wanted calles I will refer them to her.

Is this a true thing are black Labs not a wanted or popular dog?

[Zoom]

Black labs are incredibly popular, hence the reason for so many dogs in shelters being black labs or lab mixes. The reason they are harder to adopt is that most people find or think it's harder to read facial expressions on black dogs, and don't trust them as much. It's silly, but true. Black dogs of any breed are more difficult to adopt out. I'm thinking that when I get my land and resources together, i'm going to start a Black Dog rescue.

[canadianmandy]

Black labs are incredibly popular, hence the reason for so many dogs in shelters being black labs or lab mixes. The reason they are harder to adopt is that most people find or think it's harder to read facial expressions on black dogs, and don't trust them as much. It's silly, but true. Black dogs of any breed are more difficult to adopt out. I'm thinking that when I get my land and resources together, i'm going to start a Black Dog rescue.


I think they are very expressive..... Very silly. Thats a good thing you want to do.

[Citrus007]

Yeah from what I have heard from a person who works at a shelter is black dogs are generally the last adopted, I'm going to get a black lab this summer myself.

[MomOf7]

Thats a very good question and I have the answer.

Lab color popularity goes in trends. One year its the yellow, Next its the black sometimes it will go for more than one or even 2 years.
Right now I have gotten 5 calls for chocolates and several inquiries in if I had any or if I was expecting a chocolate litter any time soon.
I refer them to friends as I dont have any chocolates.
Last couple years it was yellow but the popularity in blacks is huge for hunt test and field trial trainers and handlers. Has been for years.
Its the public that cant make up its mind! LOL

[canadianmandy]

Thats a very good question and I have the answer.

Lab color popularity goes in trends. One year its the yellow, Next its the black sometimes it will go for more than one or even 2 years.
Right now I have gotten 5 calls for chocolates and several inquiries in if I had any or if I was expecting a chocolate litter any time soon.
I refer them to friends as I dont have any chocolates.
Last couple years it was yellow but the popularity in blacks is huge for hunt test and field trial trainers and handlers. Has been for years.
Its the public that cant make up its mind! LOL

Thats sad.... I think black labs are adorible.... They are just hard to take pictures of lol ! But its weird b/c I had 2 goldens and 7 black and right now I have the two goldens and 2 black. One black and one golden may be leaving tomorrow or thursday. mmm maybe it was b/c the markings on the black ones.... (they have golden retriever in them so half had the golden retriever hair with sum gold markings.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/canadian_Mandy/milk2.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/canadian_Mandy/milk6.jpg The white comes from the mommies Lab.

This is a pick from the night b/4 she whelped
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/canadian_Mandy/MVC-896F.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/canadian_Mandy/MVC-900F.jpg

She was a goof she hated her whelping box...nested in my closet... But whelped on my bed.... thankful her contractions woke me up and I put whelping pads under her.

[canadianmandy]

o by the way! I love your Lab picture Momof7! she/he looks like a gentle giant! can definatly see her expression!

[LabBreeder]

I know that Lab colors vary in popularity...but I didn't necessarily think black Labs were harder to find homes for. I think it also depends on where you live as to what color (or breed) is more popular. Tira is very expressive and you can definitely tell what she's thinking/feeling :) Pictures are harder to do though...if it's dark and you use the flash she gets all shiny (she's already shiny without the flash!) if you don't use flash you get a black shape with glowing spots (eyes) and maybe a flash of teeth. The only way you win with a pic is if it's outside, sun shining, but in the shade...lol.

maybe you could expand your flier area in case people in your town just don't have the "black thing" going on this year.

[bubbatd]

Sorry I have to be a poot here.... I don't see your sweet Momma as a pure bred , nor the pup being a Golden and Lab mix......methinks a Rottie or a Dobie made a midnight visit !!! A very sweet baby , but please if you breed again don't do flyers. Also, from what I understand , brown labs seem to have more " issues " than yellow or black. With them now being #1 , anyone wanting a lab please REALLY check out the breeding and testing !!! Go though a Lab clubs/ Lab rescue and stay away from ads on line or in the papers. They are wonderful dogs.... all my grand-labs were through HS and rescue.....I adored all 3.

[LabBreeder]

Sorry I have to be a poot here.... I don't see your sweet Momma as a pure bred , nor the pup being a Golden and Lab mix......methinks a Rottie or a Dobie made a midnight visit !!! A very sweet baby , but please if you breed again don't do flyers. Also, from what I understand , brown labs seem to have more " issues " than yellow or black. With them now being #1 , anyone wanting a lab please REALLY check out the breeding and testing !!! Go though a Lab clubs/ Lab rescue and stay away from ads on line or in the papers. They are wonderful dogs.... all my grand-labs were through HS and rescue.....I adored all 3.


i believe the chocolates are in more "demand" now but the yellows have...from what i've gathered...more skin issues. if that's the kind of "issues" you were referring to? :) then again, all dogs have some sort of issue with hereditary health problems and all...or at least the chance of a problem due to breed heredity. (heck, ya know what i mean! i hope)

[MomOf7]

Also, from what I understand , brown labs seem to have more " issues " than yellow or black. With them now being #1 , anyone wanting a lab please REALLY check out the breeding and testing !!! Go though a Lab clubs/ Lab rescue and stay away from ads on line or in the papers. They are wonderful dogs.... all my grand-labs were through HS and rescue.....I adored all 3.
It really doesnt matter the color. Chocolate labs are more rare than the yellow and black. Very few are trialed in field trials. They are becomming more popular in the field though.
Temperment or problems dont vary on the color it varies on the breeding.
Thought I might clarify that for ya.
There are rumors that chocolates are more hard headed....Just rumors from what I have seen.:)

[LabBreeder]

LMAO....chocolates more hard headed. someone needs to tell my black Lab that! :) :)

[Julie]

Well, I have a choc and a yellow. I know that color has nothing to do with learning or hardheadness Lol. The most hard headed lab I have been around has been a yellow. My choc(male) is a sweetheart and takes learning and obeying in stride. My yellow (a female) is soooo much more hard headed than my male choc. I am also familar with several blacks and one is trained harshly and still hardheaded.....
I believe it comes from the genetic makeup of each individual dog, and on top of that the training the dog receives.

I guess a little off topic huh?

[MomOf7]

Lookie...Today is 666 my last post on here was number 666
Its a sign I know it! LOL This place is EVIL! EVIL I tell ya:)

[LabBreeder]

omg! and the omen came out today too...talk about evil days/times. LOL

[canadianmandy]

Sorry I have to be a poot here.... I don't see your sweet Momma as a pure bred , nor the pup being a Golden and Lab mix......methinks a Rottie or a Dobie made a midnight visit !!! A very sweet baby , but please if you breed again don't do flyers. Also, from what I understand , brown labs seem to have more " issues " than yellow or black. With them now being #1 , anyone wanting a lab please REALLY check out the breeding and testing !!! Go though a Lab clubs/ Lab rescue and stay away from ads on line or in the papers. They are wonderful dogs.... all my grand-labs were through HS and rescue.....I adored all 3.

Well actually Mom is a golden retriever/golden Lab.. the ears are all personality. As to the babies being rottie or dobie nope I know the daddy he is a Black Lab/golden retriever mom has the white chest. I know mom and dad of my dog and I know the parents of these puppies. The only other male in my area is a fixed male blue heeler. I live out in the middle of nowhere. Dad loves my house more than my neighbors. .. I dont normally do fliers but because we were unsure whether we were moving to west virginia or staying in the area. so I could not advertize till last minute when we bought land here in Mo.

[MomOf7]

Well actually Mom is a golden retriever/golden Lab.. the ears are all personality. As to the babies being rottie or dobie nope I know the daddy he is a Black Lab/golden retriever mom has the white chest. I know mom and dad of my dog and I know the parents of these puppies. The only other male in my area is a fixed male blue heeler. I live out in the middle of nowhere. Dad loves my house more than my neighbors. .. I dont normally do fliers but because we were unsure whether we were moving to west virginia or staying in the area. so I could not advertize till last minute when we bought land here in Mo.
Do you foster? dont normally do fliers?
Are you breeding mixes?

[Julie]

Also, just wanted to make a point...............

There are no golden labs........................just yellow......black.......chocolate. ;)

For some reason it really irritates me to hear people call yellow labs........golden labs. They are not golden they are yellow.

[canadianmandy]

Do you foster? dont normally do fliers?
Are you breeding mixes?

I knew this would come back up. (remember the post I made about puppies for adoption)
Yes we do rescue (I would not call it foster) we take them in and if a home comes then a home comes but if not we keep them. No I do not breed for mix breed dogs. the puppies are the outcome of a family crisis. I do not need to be told that My dog needs to be spayed there is already a thread of about 11-12 pages here about that. LOL I even think you posted in it:p

[LabBreeder]

let me ask you...not to spark a debate ;) but what do you think about people calling chocolates "Silver"?

i don't like the golden thing either. but when you try to point that out to a "breeder" (not canadianmandy) they get all defensive.

[canadianmandy]

Also, just wanted to make a point...............

There are no golden labs........................just yellow......black.......chocolate. ;)

For some reason it really irritates me to hear people call yellow labs........golden labs. They are not golden they are yellow.


Im sorry .yellow lab. I think golden is way more cute though:p
I do believe there is also white labs? am I right?

[canadianmandy]

let me ask you...not to spark a debate ;) but what do you think about people calling chocolates "Silver"?

i don't like the golden thing either. but when you try to point that out to a "breeder" (not canadianmandy) they get all defensive.

Wow I just learned somthing new! I didnt know ppl called chocolate labs silver. though I wonder why :confused:

[Julie]

Why would "golden" be cute?

You guys..........this is why labs are in the shape they are in...

There are no whites........there are no silvers... well I take that back.
There are "whites" and "silvers", but they are not breed standard. They are not something to breed for. I believe silvers come from a wiemer cross.

The only breeders that breed for those colors are looking for a buck. The standard only includes Yellow, Black, Chocolate. You can only register a dog as such. The people that call their dogs golden, white, silver, ........is just a selling gimic........You cannot check white or silver on AKC papers.

They are not even acknowleged.

[canadianmandy]

Why would "golden" be cute?

You guys..........this is why labs are in the shape they are in...

There are no whites........there are no silvers... well I take that back.
There are "whites" and "silvers", but they are not breed standard. They are not something to breed for. I believe silvers come from a wiemer cross.

The only breeders that breed for those colors are looking for a buck. The standard only includes Yellow, Black, Chocolate. You can only register a dog as such. The people that call their dogs golden, white, silver, ........is just a selling gimic........You cannot check white or silver on AKC papers.

They are not even acknowleged.

Umm Im not selling golden Labs... I just said golden was cute. My standards of cute isnt yours so dont worry about it. and I think labbreeder was saying that calling a yellow lab is like calling a chocolate lab silver. I dont think labbreeder sells silver lab puppies.

And about the white I was just asking if it existed .

[MomOf7]

let me ask you...not to spark a debate ;) but what do you think about people calling chocolates "Silver"?

i don't like the golden thing either. but when you try to point that out to a "breeder" (not canadianmandy) they get all defensive.

Its a fad and a huge genetic mistake. They are only bred for the money they produce. I have yet to see a silver compete in field tests..They can never compete in the show ring.

[Julie]

golden what? Is cute?

[MomOf7]

I knew this would come back up. (remember the post I made about puppies for adoption)
Yes we do rescue (I would not call it foster) we take them in and if a home comes then a home comes but if not we keep them. No I do not breed for mix breed dogs. the puppies are the outcome of a family crisis. I do not need to be told that My dog needs to be spayed there is already a thread of about 11-12 pages here about that. LOL I even think you posted in it:p
LOL ok I forgot! lol
I thought you fostered just wasnt sure so I didnt want to jump the gun:)

[canadianmandy]

LOL ok I forgot! lol
I thought you fostered just wasnt sure so I didnt want to jump the gun:)

Ty

ty for clarifying the silver thing. I thought ppl called chocolated silver and i could not see why I can see brown but silver? lol

[dr2little]

Black labs are incredibly popular, hence the reason for so many dogs in shelters being black labs or lab mixes. The reason they are harder to adopt is that most people find or think it's harder to read facial expressions on black dogs, and don't trust them as much. It's silly, but true. Black dogs of any breed are more difficult to adopt out. I'm thinking that when I get my land and resources together, i'm going to start a Black Dog rescue.
I just found your post Zoom and I love that idea of a Black dog rescue. It is such a problem. The greyhounds picked last are almost always the black beauties and so many wonderful dogs in rescue are overlooked just because they're black. It's very strange...and so sad.:( I'd definetely donate to your Black Dog Rescue...good for you!!!

[smkie]

we use to say at the kennels if you have blacks they want yellows if you have yellows they want blacks..got males they want females...etc

[Dobiegurl]

To the original question.

Its not specifically black labs but statistics show that a large black dog is last to be adopted.

[canadianmandy]

we use to say at the kennels if you have blacks they want yellows if you have yellows they want blacks..got males they want females...etc

good point

[LabBreeder]

wow...it's amazing the amount of posts you miss when your man calls!!! LOL

no, i don't do "silvers" or "white" or "golden"...was just asking about it and why people say they have these "special colored Labs" that aren't breed standard.

thanks for the answer guys...:) didn't mean to spark a controversy.

[Leslie + Chessies]

Cream, white, silver,...phooey!

But I really wouldn't mind getting my hands on this genetic freak of a lab- http://xoomer.alice.it/matesser/spott.htm

[canadianmandy]

Cream, white, silver,...phooey!

But I really wouldn't mind getting my hands on this genetic freak of a lab- http://xoomer.alice.it/matesser/spott.htm

ME to!!!! wonder how that happened.

[LabBreeder]

i don't know..but for a "genetic freak" he's friggin beautiful!!! i mean, you can tell he's a lab, but the colors are just sooooo wrong. poor guy. they even did DNA tests that showed he was Olga and Freds pup...WOW.

[Leslie + Chessies]

ME to!!!! wonder how that happened.

This is what another site said of the dog...

This is a photo of Spotty, a registered Labrador retriever courtesy of the Matessers, a kennel in Italy. Spotty's mom is a black Labrador, and his dad is a yellow Lab. His siblings are all either yellow or black. DNA testing was done to verify parentage. But during Spotty's embryonic development a skin cell mutated from ee (yellow) to Ee (black). All the descendants of that mutated cell produce black pigmentation. Could he sire black puppies in addition to yellows if mated to a yellow? Possibly. His left testicle is black; if the cells inside it are of the same origin as the black cells on the scrotum, they would produce sperm containing E as well as e. Here is a closeup of Spotty's face as an adult. He is clearly a mosaic of yellow and black rather than a black pinto with the white spotting gene. He is actively shown in canine sports, where his dual color catches a lot of attention. It is equally possible for a dog to be a chocolate/yellow mosaic or a chocolate/black mosaic.

[LabBreeder]

can we have the link to the english version of the site?

[Zoom]

To Canadianmandy: There are yellow labs so light as to be called 'white' and I'm sure there are those color "whoopses" that are a true white, but neither is acceptable nor desired. Calling chocolates "silver" refers to the current debate going on about whether the silver gene is the product of a dilute chocolate (which I think would be a double dilute, since isn't the chocolate gene already considered a dilute?) or is from a fence-jumping Weimeraner a few years back and the not-so-scrupulous breeder made a fortune and fad off the resulting 'silver' puppies.

[Leslie + Chessies]

can we have the link to the english version of the site?

I pulled the genetic info about Spotty from an American Australian Shepherd site- http://www.ashgi.org/color/Aussie_somatic_mutations.html

Here is a website translator. Just paste the URL and choose Italian to English, and it will translate the page for you. http://babelfish.altavista.com/

[LabBreeder]

cool...thanks!

[LabBreeder]

since he's a registered Lab...i wonder what color he was registered as?

[Citrus007]

This is going back to the thing of different lab colors and how there is no silver and such and on this one site they said there are "rare white golden retrievers" english or such, the whole site seemed a bunch of phoey, is this too? just wondering

[bubbatd]

To me there are the 3 colored labs... yellow/black/ chocolate. One golden retreiver... light or dark .

[Citrus007]

ok thanks, thats what I thought

[LabBreeder]

the site that Chessie (sp?) posted said something about all Golden Retrievers have the black gene but it's supressed by the golden/red gene. what's up with that? are goldens supposed to be black but their gene is supressed or are they just goldens and this site is phooey too?

[JennSLK]

Wow he sure is cool looking!

[canadianmandy]

To Canadianmandy: There are yellow labs so light as to be called 'white' and I'm sure there are those color "whoopses" that are a true white, but neither is acceptable nor desired. Calling chocolates "silver" refers to the current debate going on about whether the silver gene is the product of a dilute chocolate (which I think would be a double dilute, since isn't the chocolate gene already considered a dilute?) or is from a fence-jumping Weimeraner a few years back and the not-so-scrupulous breeder made a fortune and fad off the resulting 'silver' puppies.


TY ZOOM! I just never saw a silver Lab.

[Zoom]

The color is pretty, but the head to me is so obviously Weim in origin that I don't think the overall dog looks very good. If I want this color, I'll get a Weim.

[canadianmandy]

the site that Chessie (sp?) posted said something about all Golden Retrievers have the black gene but it's supressed by the golden/red gene. what's up with that? are goldens supposed to be black but their gene is supressed or are they just goldens and this site is phooey too?

My puppies as I said are Black Lab/golden retrievr.
When I hold the black ones in the light they are golden red. our vet said it was b/c of the golden retrievr in them.

I think black is a very dominant color .... I had several puppies that were black but had the long retriever hair. two pupies were black but had white on their chest and gold paws and eyebrows. The other one was all black with white on her chest. (they all had the redish tint in the light)]
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/canadian_Mandy/bear5.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/canadian_Mandy/SIMG0073.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/canadian_Mandy/SIMG0093.jpg

[canadianmandy]

those are young pics

[LabBreeder]

canadianmandy - no, i wasn't talking about your pups. there was a website that chessie posted earlier...talking about the spotty Lab we saw. it said something about golden retrievers, genetic colors, and supressing certain colors and i was wondering if anyone could go to the site and see if it's the truth or not.

[canadianmandy]

yea ok kool

[Citrus007]

adorable pictures, it makes me want a puppy so bad

[canadianmandy]

adorable pictures, it makes me want a puppy so bad

TY but it looks like they all have homes!

[Zoom]

My ex-boss said that Goldens still have that repressed black gene in them from the Flat-Coated retrievers used in the creation breedings, and that it is that gene that expresses itself when outcrossed, which, according to her, is the reason why you see so many black colored GR crosses.

[canadianmandy]

My ex-boss said that Goldens still have that repressed black gene in them from the Flat-Coated retrievers used in the creation breedings, and that it is that gene that expresses itself when outcrossed, which, according to her, is the reason why you see so many black colored GR crosses.

TY you answered my question b4 I asked it. That explains why my puppies took the black gene and retriever hair. (black lab/golden retriever)

[Zoom]

However, it does not explain where the tan trim and shepherd spots came from though. There are either more dogs in the makeup of either your girl or the dog's father that you know, or another dog helped in the creation. Litters can have more than one sire at a time.

[canadianmandy]

However, it does not explain where the tan trim and shepherd spots came from though. There are either more dogs in the makeup of either your girl or the dog's father that you know, or another dog helped in the creation. Litters can have more than one sire at a time.

Its not tan its gold.(vet said it was from the golden retriever) My dog has white on her chest. (Vet said it was b/c of the unique mix)

I know the parents of my dog. (that was a purposeful breeding (Yellow lab/golden retriever) The dad is Black lab/golden retriever he is all black I mean pitch black but he to has the golden tint! The owners of the dad know the mom and dad of their dog... Mom was shot:( shot shortly after birth and they had to hand raise her. Dad is still around huge golden retriever... gorgeous... Its kinda like the spots on that freak a nature puppy Yellow lab I guess)

No other males could have been in our yard ... my other dog woulda gottem! SHe dont like newbies

[Leslie + Chessies]

There's a breeder which has done study on mismarks in labs. Among them are tan point, brindled, mosaic (spotted) and white markings. I supposed such dog would just be registered with their dominant color.
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/mismarks.html
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/mismarks2.html

[wildwings811]

I am not trying to start any controversy but......

Canadianmandie-you said you rescue in the begining of this post and that this litter was an unplanned "mistake" then jus above you stated the this was a planned breeding which was it???

I have also seen advertisements for Fox Red Labs ARRRGGGH

[canadianmandy]

I am not trying to start any controversy but......

Canadianmandie-you said you rescue in the begining of this post and that this litter was an unplanned "mistake" then jus above you stated the this was a planned breeding which was it???

I have also seen advertisements for Fox Red Labs ARRRGGGH


no no read my post. I said My dog came from the planned breeding of a yellow lab/golden retriever. no controversy you just misread.

My dog had the puppies unplanned. my daog came from a planned litter.

[MomOf7]

I am not trying to start any controversy but......

Canadianmandie-you said you rescue in the begining of this post and that this litter was an unplanned "mistake" then jus above you stated the this was a planned breeding which was it???

I have also seen advertisements for Fox Red Labs ARRRGGGH


I definatly dont breed for color.
Breeding for color is rediculous we all know that. Although in some breeds you want certain colors as they do better in the show ring. Like cocker spaniels.
Im not afraid to say I like the red color in dogs. I love Irish setters. Grew up with them guess thats why I like the red color. I also like the really light yellow also refered to as white. Color is just an eye appeal.

[bubbatd]

I'm still with Zoom !!! There's another breed with the markings.

[canadianmandy]

I'm still with Zoom !!! There's another breed with the markings.


Ty for your input but I know the parents.

[bubbatd]

I know... but she could have had a visitor ...............

[Saje]

From my very limited experience I'd have to agree with Grammy. There looks like there's something else in there.

[SummerRiot]

Lab color popularity goes in trends. One year its the yellow, Next its the black sometimes it will go for more than one or even 2 years.


I haven't read threw this whole thread yet but..

mom is SOOOO right its not funny lol

Same goes for the Belgians.. right now the "gronendaels" are "in" for the show ring and place easier then the Tervurens.. lol you know why? Because they are black! lol

[canadianmandy]

I know... but she could have had a visitor ...............

I love your input and concern but it is a phisical impossibility and I can promise no other dog mated with her. I have a 12 person family and we would have noticed another dog. And my sisters dog that is tied by her when shes out would kill I mean kill any other dog other than the daddy of the puppies that would come around. we think they bred in the dog house... We built a small building with a door to keep them in at night so no animal can bother them and during the time in which she would have bred he was being put in with them at night.)

I do not beleive in keeping my dogs outside but the person who tricked us out of our money and left us with this small trailer said the dogs could not be inside. I can not wait till we are in our new house so my Lovie can sleep on my bed at night

[LabBreeder]

if you look at the links that chessie posted...about spotted/tan marked purebred Labs...you'll start to see that there may have just been the one father and he had the supressed genes (on the Lab side of him) to possibly produce a tan marked pup (regardless of it being mix breed). i think, as long as they are sure there was just the one sire, that the supressed Lab color gene came out and could have something to do with the extra "spots" on the pups.