Blood Swapping Reanimates Dead Dogs!!! [Archive] - Chazhound Dog Forum

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LabBreeder
05-24-2006, 12:37 PM
In a series of nightmarish experiments straight out of a horror flick, scientists at a leading university have killed dozens of dogs — then brought them back to life.

The hapless pooches, who have their blood drained for up to three hours, are being reanimated in a bid to develop the use of suspended animation to help humans who are injured in combat or crime.

"From our standpoint, we believe it's a very important area of research," said Dr. Patrick Kochanek (Read his biography) , director of the Safar Center for Resuscitation Research (search) at the University of Pittsburgh.

But animal-rights activists last night slammed the research as "indefensible," cruel and inhumane.

In the unsettling tests, dogs of all breeds and sizes are put under, their veins drained of blood and filled with an ice-cold salt solution which drops their body temperature from a normal 101 degrees to near freezing.

That puts them in a state of extreme hypothermia, making them scientifically dead — with no breathing, heartbeat or brain activity. But their tissues and vital organs are preserved.

The corpses are then brought back to life by returning the blood to their bodies, giving them pure oxygen and applying electric shocks to restart their hearts.

For a long time, the test subjects couldn't be brought back to life after more than two hours. But recently, the researchers added glucose and more oxygen to the blood and have pushed the maximum time the dogs can be dead to three hours.

"We've tried to get it to four hours, but we just haven't been able to do it," Kochanek told The Post.

The lucky ones turn out to be perfectly normal with no brain damage — although other dogs are stricken with serious physical or behavioral problems.

"We do not in any way say that every outcome is normal," Kochanek said.

He said his goal is to be able to put humans, such as critically wounded soldiers or stabbing or shooting victims, in a state of suspended animation for a few hours until they can receive proper medical help.

And his team is now in talks with hospitals about starting trials for trauma patients.

Mary Beth Sweetland, a spokeswoman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (search), said:

"These experiments are indefensible nonsense and the results for humans will be negligible. I would also imagine there are serious consequences for these animals that aren't discussed."

Kochanek angrily denies he's creating a race of zombie dogs fit for a Stephen King novel.

"It's very scientific and those types of words are totally inappropriate. This is an attempt to buy a little time for people who would otherwise just die. We are suggesting that the alternative to this is death," he said.

JennSLK
05-24-2006, 08:37 PM
I think I am going to throw up

Zoom
05-24-2006, 08:56 PM
At the risk of getting seriously flamed, that's actually kind of neat. There has been movements towards cryogenics like this for decades, but the technology just wasn't there. I think there could be a lot of good to come out of this, though the methodology is admittedly very unsettling.

LabBreeder
05-24-2006, 09:22 PM
At the risk of getting seriously flamed, that's actually kind of neat. There has been movements towards cryogenics like this for decades, but the technology just wasn't there. I think there could be a lot of good to come out of this, though the methodology is admittedly very unsettling.

actually, i think they were doing it with frogs/toads years ago. if i remember correctly, they would quick freeze the frog, it's heart would stop in mid beat (or some such) then they would reheat and jump start it again.
still, it just seems wrong to "test" things like this on animals. i mean, i know we can't test it on humans either...you think they'd figure something else out. make a clone? no, still the same problem...living being. hell, i dunno.:confused:

Zoom
05-24-2006, 09:34 PM
Frogs and toads are already equipped to undergo something like that. It's how they survive winters; they go into a cryogenic stasis when winter comes and then 'thaw' back out in the spring and get right back to hopping. Mammals are a different story.

Yeah, it does suck to have to test out on living things, but we can't write computer programs to mimic human physiology, so we make do with what we have. I remember reading years ago about how much of our modern medicine in relation to treatments for burns, hypothermia and a few other things are all due to the horrific experiments carried out in the Nazi concentration camps during WWII. I wish to God it didn't have to happen that way, but that ill-gained knowledge has saved countless lives since then. Not saying the end justifies the means, but at least a point/purpose was made/achieved in the end.

LabBreeder
05-24-2006, 09:36 PM
i know we have no other way to test things...but...i dunno, i guess it's easier to just not think about it and wait for a better way to be discovered.

mojozen
05-24-2006, 10:23 PM
I think it's interesting. And frankly from the standpoint that i have, animal testing is what has kept me alive. All of the medications I take and all the medical procedures I and also my brother has gone through are due to animal testing.

Does it suck for the animals? Sure. It does. Not saying it doesn't...

But if the testing hadn't been done, then I would have died quite a long time ago from severe asthma. My brother would ahve died from either heart problems (heart defect) or Chrones disease... Perhaps I'm selfish, but I think I do more good alive than dead.

I am with Zoom... it sounds neat. The procedure definately needs some tweaking, but it's a good building block for the future.

LabBreeder
05-24-2006, 11:38 PM
oh i know there has to be testing done on something and animals are pretty much the only option. i mean, who's going to volunteer to DIE and hope they get brought back to life? not me, that's for sure! LOL :)
animal testing has helped save many, many lives...and that's good. it just sucks they either die or can't live normal lives after the testing.

soft pawz
05-25-2006, 12:28 AM
i think i am going to throw up too.....

i know animal testing is necessary to some extent BUT does it HAVE to be dogs?
why not take a monkey..i really dont like taking dogs a labrats. humans have
a special bond with dogs, you'll never find another animal more loyal....
we really shouldnt use dogs for testing.....

Roxy's CD
05-25-2006, 01:23 AM
I wonder if there are any long term effects...????

It is neat but at the same time it seems inhumane. Sacrafices must be made but it still seems sad...

LabBreeder
05-25-2006, 01:27 AM
roxy - The lucky ones turn out to be perfectly normal with no brain damage — although other dogs are stricken with serious physical or behavioral problems.

Roxy's CD
05-25-2006, 01:36 AM
^^Ahh nice. I don't think I wanted to know that, it already seems so sad...:(

Zoom
05-25-2006, 01:39 AM
That's about par for humans who have been oxygen deprived for over 8 minutes. Having a chance of being normal after 3 HOURS of being dead is pretty good when you think about it.

LabBreeder
05-25-2006, 02:36 AM
1. we aren't talking about humans. i'm sure if they wanted to, and had a volunteer to do it, they could reanimate a human with the same possibilities of being "normal". oxygen deprivation vs dead for 3 hrs.....hmmm, i think i'd rather be oxygen deprived.

2. roxy - sorry, but you did ask..... :(

LabBreeder
05-25-2006, 02:57 AM
http://nanodot.org/comments.pl?sid=02/02/22/0056207&cid=5

it's scientific, but understandable...it explains quite a bit about cryogenics (with human tissue).