Love our Labs

[LabBreeder]

We have an AKC registered black Lab female that is 1 yr 9 mo old. We also have an AKC registered chocolate Lab male that is 8 1/2 wks old. We just got him 5/13th. Our girls name is Black Tear of Cheyene (Tira) and our boy is Gunners Mate (Gunner). We plan on breeding them in 7 months when he's at least 2 months above the minimum breeding age. He is going to top out at close to 90 lbs full grow. Tira currently weighs 70 lbs. We have started a website and a few classifieds online trying to get the word out about their litter in early 2007. Tira's pedigree includes SH, MH, AFC and FC. (Edited by Moderator - No dogs allow for sale on the forum ). There are only two genetic combinations that yield chocolate Labs, the pedigree is very nice and both are AKC registered (by then they may also be UKC registered).

We truly love our Labs so very much and want to keep their lines going. Please visit our website and check out what they look like now and email us if you are interested or if you have any questions.

[blue]

BYB or a hobbiest?

[Zoom]

I do hope you plan on extensive health testing...and getting titles on your own dogs. Shiny coats is not enough of a reason to bring yet more labs into an already overpopulated world.

[jess2416]

I do hope you plan on extensive health testing...and getting titles on your own dogs. Shiny coats is not enough of a reason to bring yet more labs into an already overpopulated world.

Ditto ^

[Julie]

Hello and welcome to Chaz.

I am very concerned with your future breeding practices. You want to breed a 10 month old male? When will hip/eye clearance be done?
How do you know at 8 weeks that this dog will be worthy of breeding?

I am sorry but it really sounds as though you are more worried about having pups than enjoying your dogs. Labs are so overbred by people maybe with good intentions, but not really knowing the overall picture of what happens to these dogs. There are too many labs already. Why contribute to the problem?

The best thing for you to do is join a labrador retriever club and learn from those with experience in the breed.

Why would you charge more for a choc pup? Does it cost more to raise?
Or are they just more desired by the consumer and you should profit?

Here is a great link to coat color genetics. As you will see there are many combos that produce chocolates.
http://www.blueknightlabs.com/color/coatcolor.html

I am sooooooooo not trying to be rude, but I have very strong feelings about breeding, labs...especially.

Do you hunt with your labs?

I hope you reconsider breeding until a later age, at least health tests could be done. And you would have time to prove they are worthy of breeding. ;)

[Allykat]

Umph, is all I have to say!!!

[Allykat]

BYB or a hobbiest?


I'm thinking BYB because he stated the price for the puppies. He wouldn't have mentioned it if it was not an important aspect of his breeding.

[~Tucker&Me~]

I'm thinking BYB because he stated the price for the puppies. He wouldn't have mentioned it if it was not an important aspect of his breeding.


Woah, woah guys...
We don't KNOW for certain very much about this person. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and wait and see his reply. We don't want to chase away a new member! Another thing; lets say that it turns out he is a BYB. We don't want him to leave! If we are POLITE and UNDERSTANDING then we can change his ways (hopefully).
Manners Chaz member, manners!
LOL

~Tucker

[Allykat]

Woah, woah guys...
We don't KNOW for certain very much about this person. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and wait and see his reply. We don't want to chase away a new member! Another thing; lets say that it turns out he is a BYB. We don't want him to leave! If we are POLITE and UNDERSTANDING then we can change his ways (hopefully).
Manners Chaz member, manners!
LOL

~Tucker

Oh NOW people want to be polite after already chasing off tons of people.

[~Tucker&Me~]

I don't believe I chased off anyone, or at least I hope not! :)
I always try and be polite, giving people the benefit of the doubt.
I figured it would be nice to remind people to treat all members respectfully. As for chasing tons of people off, I thought that having 'reminders' might help if a situation gets sticky.

~Tucker

[blue]

Rethink the breeding and postpone it to title your dogs as well as getting the proper testing done to make sure for the betterment of the breed.

[ihartgonzo]

Seriously... let's allow the OP to post back, before judging him/her :(

Labbreeder, I would second the recommendation of waiting until at least 1 year to test your male's hips/elbows/etc. You also need to test your female. Why? Labradors are PLAGUED with hip and elbow dysplasia in the breed. This is a crippling, expensive, painful disease and can be easily prevented by preventative measures such as testing parents and not breeding carriers. Every single one of the 7 years+ Labs that I know (all from inexperienced breeder who did not test the parents) have hip dysplasia! One of which, my best friend's male Lab, is 9 and has had 2 painful hip surgeries and he's going in for another this summer. Several have luxating patellas, also. My sister has a Lab from breeders who also aimed for nothing but appearance, no health testing, and he showed signs of severe dysplasia before he was 1 year old! I just wanted to give you an idea of this terrible issue in the breed, please research this to make yourself aware and educated. I guarentee that many more people (or atleast more conscious, educated people) will be interested in puppies from health tested parents, with a health guarentee on the pups! Additionally, ANY knowledgable person looking for a Lab WILL look for hunting titles on your dogs. Hunting & dock diving is tons of fun for you and your dogs, it will prove their worth as breeding stock (after all - if Labrador Retrievers are not proven as excellent working/retrieving dogs, WHY are they even Labs? And WHY are they worthy of passing on their line?). Please, just think about this thoroughly. You aren't just putting 2 dogs together, you are bringing lives into a world of severe animal overpopulation. Make sure your dogs are worth breeding - which does not mean they're just sweet pets, they also need to be physically sound, conformationally correct, AND proven to perform the work of their breed.

[LabBreeder]

First of all I AM NOT a back yard breeder, or BYB, as you so delicately put it. I come here trying to tell people about my Labs because I am very proud of them!!! Yes, I did post the price because some people are interested in such things. I know Tira is great for breeding purposes...besides her pedigree she's been thorougly checked by our vet and nothing has been found to be wrong with her hips, eyes, elbows or anything else. As for Gunner, if he turns out anything like his father, mother or older brothers and sisters he will be the perfect male. He will get everything checked just like Tira did and I will tell whoever is interested whatever they want to know. As for being a higher price for chocolates...it's not more expensive to keep them but it is more of a challenge for some people to breed them if they don't already have the genetic combinations to produce a chocolate. There are only 2 combinations that yield a chocolate Lab, black/chocolate or chocolate/chocolate. As for our dogs doing any hunting/field work...currently they don't. He's to young and she's in heat currently.
If you want to be worried about overpopulation you need to jump down the throats of the people that are "breeding" goldendoodles, labradoodles, puggles, schnoodles, etc. All these people are doing is creating a mixed breed (which I have no problems with) that they charge upwards of 500 dollars for. What sense does that make? If you want a mixed breed, go to the pound and help out a homeless dog...don't go to a BYB or somesuch and pay for a mixed breed. These dogs are not registered as a breed and the only papers they get are CKC "non purebred dog" papers that state the parents were two different purebreds.
So, before you all jump down my throat for being proud of my dogs and their pedigree, think about what the people I just mentioned are doing. Yell at them. I don't appreciate the way you have been treating me. I thought this was supposed to be a good place to talk about your dogs and kind of have fun. I guess all but ONE of you have proven that wrong.

[LabBreeder]

I know of the issues with Labs and health issues. I'm not new to this, no matter what you people here may think. My husband was an avid Lab breeder and hunter and we both decided to get back into it. You all judge way to harshly before knowing someone.

[princess_poppy]

good luck, i agree with you about hybreds, have fun here!

[mojozen]

You haven't been around us long enough - we do "jump down the throats" of the doodle/poo/designer/hybrid breeders. Do a search on designer breeds or hybrids and you will see these same people asking THOSE people if their dogs are tested for all of the known ailments and/or are titled in obedience/agility/herding/schutzhund etc.

We're all purpose jumpers... not just hounding you specifically.

[joce]

Lab breeder You have to look at it from our point of view. You may be used to one thing and it may have worked for you but that doesn't mean its what should really be done. We see people come on hre all the time trying to breeed puppies or people that have gotten the puppies crying because they have thousands in vet bills.

* the first thing is your vet could tell you your dog would be a champion but it doens't really mean anything. Vets will tell anyone that there dog is great to breed. it brings them more money and more customers. Your vet can not even do these health tests untill a dog is two so I'm nto sure what he told you. I'm a firm beleiver that these tests need done.

*90 lbs is a little hefty for a lab. this brings a lot of problems and even with health tests passed at two it makes a huge risk for hip dysplasia later in life. If you are breeding for the right reasons you want to breed in standard. Do it because you love the breed-not because soem people who don't,want a bigger lab.

*Any color with choclate in the genes will actually create choclate. Health testing is even mroe needed with choclates because they are the most inbred of the breed. its the only way you get the color. My neighbors bred theirs and the pups are only about a yr old and people have already started asking for money to get hips done. They don't want to pay cuz their femalhas no problems so why should they? they are going to end up being sued and are going to loose a ton but its what happens when you don't even research what you are doing.

*A byb is someone who does not breed dogs to standard,doesn't health test,and sells for insane prices for no reason. You can easilly change all of this. There is no reason you have to breed as soon as you wanted. I didn't see how much you wanted for the dogs but a sure sign of a byb is diffrent prices for diffrent colors. A choclate should be no more than a yellow,especially since more health problems are seen with them. How do you account for the price? Most breeders say its because of health testing(which you won't do) and showing(which I am guessing you are not). Any oen who researched it would come to the conclusion you were a byb. I'm sorry but thats what it comes off as.

My parents bred labs and they didn not helath test BUT this was twenty years ago. they did field tests and not a one died before fifteen. Who can say that for a lab now? My dad looked at getting back into it and can not find a single line that isn't eitheir short lived or has a ton of hx of hip dysplasia. if he would have looked at your program breeding a dog under two he would have never even thought about it.

The thing is that anyone worth giving a pup to will know better than to buy a puppy from a dog that is not even two yet. There really isn't a way aorund it. this is what I show everyone looking for a dog
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=787

All that said I love labs and hope you stick around and keep showing us your dogs. Two years is really no time to wait to ensure you have healthy dogs and will get the new pups great owners. It really is worth it.

[Julie]

There are only 2 combinations that yield a chocolate Lab, black/chocolate or chocolate/chocolate.

No, that is certainly not true.
Yellow/Choc can produce choc pups. (NBP Yellow to a Choc.
100% Cy)
http://www.blueknightlabs.com/color/c-nbp.gif

Black/Yellow can produce choc pups. (Black who carries Yel. and Choc. bred to a Yellow who carries Choc.
Produces 12.5% By ~ 12.5% Yy ~ 25%Byc ~ 25% Yc ~ 12.5% Cy and 12.5% NBP yellow)
http://www.blueknightlabs.com/color/byc-yc.gif

Black/Yellow can produce choc pups. (Black who carries choc. bred to a NBP yellow
Produces 50% Byc and 50% Cy)
http://www.blueknightlabs.com/color/bc-nbp.gif

The only 100% is two yellows will have all yellows.
Even two choc's that both carry yellow can have a yellow.
Unless of course you know your specific dog's color genes, then you can
pretty know what colors to expect.

Again, the best way to start on the right foot is find a mentor, join a club.
And educate yourself.

By the way, to get OFA hip certs the dog has to be two years old. Will you be doing that before breeding? If you breed the male at 10 months it will be impossible for him to be hip certified.

[LabBreeder]

If all you people are going to do is get on my case, maybe I should leave? If you do your research you will see that only 2 (TWO) genetic combos give you a chocolate. I've done the research, I know. I have many books on breeding, genetics, health, etc.
As for health, again, she is close to 2 yrs old as is. I plan on getting her tested again before breeding, not that that's any of your business though.
In regards to the 90 lb size, it's an estimate. I know males are only supposed to top out at around 65lbs or so. However, he has large feet and is big for his age so I'm guessing he'll be big like his father and other relatives. I don't know exactly how much they weigh, but they are at least 70 lbs.
Anyways, if no one has anything positive to say...and no one wants to see that I've been doing what's supposed to be done prior to breeding...then that is ya'lls problem, not mine! I don't need to be degraded and put down by people that don't know us or our dogs!!!

[LabBreeder]

I never said the male was certified! Why don't you people listen?
As for your genetic combinations...I do know what is in their line. I also know that you, or your book about genetics, could very well be wrong. I will continue to go by my book and by what AKC and other groups say. I don't know you, so why should I believe you? You sure as hell don't believe me.
I don't appreciate ya'lls attitude at all.

[joce]

We only knwo what you told us. that you want to breed dogs under two,and I'm still not sure what health tests your getting done.

I think you should stick aorund and learn some stuff. this really is a great site but if you have bad breeding practices it won't be a good place for you. I do hope you stick aorund.

I also don't get what we are supposed to beleive. You ahven't told us anyhting that anyones really calling you a liar about. Any dog with a brown in the gene whatever color,can create a choclate though. What is offending you so much.

the akc people also say breed after two and health test.

[mojozen]

LabBreeder - if you choose to leave then it's by your choice not by how we are behaving. You choose to get upset by our questions... You are welcome to stay... we're all a sucker for dog and puppy pictures. But no one is making you do anything.

~*~

You know this is somewhat off topic... but i am starting to get amused by these attitudes of people when we show that we know dog breeds or about breeding or whatever... people get upset with us for asking questions about their breeding practices.

Why is it we're being accused of "running people off" when it's these people choosing to get upset that we know things?

I don't get it.

[brock23]

I never said the male was certified! Why don't you people listen?
As for your genetic combinations...I do know what is in their line. I also know that you, or your book about genetics, could very well be wrong. I will continue to go by my book and by what AKC and other groups say. I don't know you, so why should I believe you? You sure as hell don't believe me.
I don't appreciate ya'lls attitude at all.


Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[LabBreeder]

You have all just proven that you don't appreciate or welcome new members. I know you know things about other breeds...so do I. I have answered your questions, if you'd only look at previous posts. As for the smart alec who said "don't let the door hit me on the way out"...you can kiss my a**. You are worse than anyone else because you have nothing productive to say.
Anyone that's interested in having a normal conversation and talking about our dogs and what they do is more than welcome to keep posting. Otherwise I'd appreciate it if you didn't post rude remarks. Make sure you read the whole post before you say something is not answered as well. Otherwise you end up looking silly.

So....we have two Labs. A black and a chocolate. Our female is starting to get testy with the male puppy when it comes to her food and paying attention to both of them when she's the one wanting all the attention. She won't bark or bite, but she does a low, short growl at the food bowl when he comes by or she'll show her teeth at him when she wants to be the only one getting attention. Any suggestions?

[Julie]

If you do your research you will see that only 2 (TWO) genetic combos give you a chocolate. I've done the research, I know. I have many books on breeding, genetics, health, etc.


If you think you only get choc from: black/choc or choc/choc,
then how can you explain me getting my choc male in my siggy from
a yellow mother and a choc father? And every pup they had was choc.

Believe me, you should take a closer look at the link I posted before. ;)

[brock23]

You have all just proven that you don't appreciate or welcome new members. I know you know things about other breeds...so do I. I have answered your questions, if you'd only look at previous posts. As for the smart alec who said "don't let the door hit me on the way out"...you can kiss my a**. You are worse than anyone else because you have nothing productive to say.




http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e221/donky23/crybaby8fh.jpg

[LabBreeder]

You people really are childish ya know? I can't believe how ignorant and stupid you are acting. You can't even get the hint to change topics. How in the world have you made it this far in life being so stupid?

[mojozen]

LabBreeder - perhaps if you hadn't started to sling insults first people would be far less likely to react. You have given the impression that you know more than us about breeding labs, when I think several of our members have proven you wrong.

[MomOf7]

I breed labs....I know about thier genetic make up. I know how you can produce a all chocolate litter with a black and a chocolate..I know about the genetic conditions effecting labs today, and I know field lines well.

I havent read through this whole thread but the little I did read was disturbing as a new member.

Keep in mind folks this is a forum just because you sit behind a computer doesnt automatically have the right to be rude.
You dont know this person or what they may have to offer. They may learn some things here so why chase them off? To me thats childish.

Anyways To the ORIGINAL poster.....

Make sure you research your dogs lines. Get thier certifications and compete to make sure that your dog is breedable material.
Just because your pups are purebred doesnt make them breedable material..Even if they have several titles behind them. Dont take this to be rude its only information.
I compete in hunt tests with my dogs and have 1 maybe 2 litters a year. I am a hobbyist not a full bore kennel. Not that there is anything wrong with a kennel at all.
Welcome to Chaz...Soak in information. If you have any questions feel free to pm me.
I will PM you a forum to go to for gundogs where you can ask questions and read the threads to see what is going on in the gundog world.

Kristine

[LabBreeder]

mojozen..........i never slung an insult in the first place, and certainly not at you until you started cursing. I simply didn't appreciate being treated like a lesser individual because some of you may know a little more. I sincerely hope this isn't how you welcome all new members. All I was trying to do was talk about my Labs and what we were planning on doing. I've already explained about the certs, our male and female, colors, history, etc. Why must we keep going in circles about it? I even tried to change the subject but you and another person wouldn't do it. It's almost like you enjoy arguing with people you don't know....or you just don't want to know us in the first place and are trying to run us off.
If you're offended by what I may or may not do with my dogs, perhaps you should just walk away from this discussion now. Otherwise, go with the flow and stop posting nasty remarks and silly pictures simply because you think you don't like someone when you don't even know them.

[J's crew]

You have all just proven that you don't appreciate or welcome new members. I know you know things about other breeds...so do I. I have answered your questions, if you'd only look at previous posts. As for the smart alec who said "don't let the door hit me on the way out"...you can kiss my a**. You are worse than anyone else because you have nothing productive to say.
Anyone that's interested in having a normal conversation and talking about our dogs and what they do is more than welcome to keep posting. Otherwise I'd appreciate it if you didn't post rude remarks. Make sure you read the whole post before you say something is not answered as well. Otherwise you end up looking silly.

So....we have two Labs. A black and a chocolate. Our female is starting to get testy with the male puppy when it comes to her food and paying attention to both of them when she's the one wanting all the attention. She won't bark or bite, but she does a low, short growl at the food bowl when he comes by or she'll show her teeth at him when she wants to be the only one getting attention. Any suggestions?


Everyone here DOES welcome new members. I have never been part of a forum that is as friendly as this one. Members here have a passion for dogs. One thing you will notice on any forum for dog lovers is the belief that any breeding that is done should be done right.
I am sure your dogs are lovely, the problem is there are so many dogs being bred that are not up to standard for the breed. Yours very well may be. Have you shown you female? Do you know her faults versus strengths? You have said she has had health testing done. Do those tests include being certified by OFA or CERF? If not will you being getting these done before breeding? I am sure you are aware of the health problems that are common in your breed. That is why a vet check is not nearly enough.
Please do not get offended by posts here from dog lovers. Many of us do rescue so we see all to often the effects of breeding with no health clearances (OFA & CERF). It would not be right for myself to claim I am an animal lover but then just sit by while someone states they will be breeding without first knowing exactly what they are doing.

As far as your female growling at the pup. My advice would be to feed them seperately. Do you have a crate? Maybe you could feed the pup in there. From the sounds of it she is just warning him to stay away and being just a baby he should get the hint. From your post it does not sound as if she is being aggressive, just letting him know the rules. Have you done any obedience training with her?

[MomOf7]

I know Tira is great for breeding purposes...besides her pedigree she's been thorougly checked by our vet and nothing has been found to be wrong with her hips, eyes, elbows or anything else.
Without having xrays sent to OFA Or having a vet who can read the xrays well there is no way to tell if your dogs hips or elbows are in good condition.
You have to have a animal Opthamologist look at your dogs eyes before you can say that his/her eyes are normal. Thats left to the specialists to determine.

Theres nothing wrong with asking more for one color or the other. Its a preference. I dont price my pups on color I price them on thier breeding. I also dont charge more for females than males. All are equall in my eyes. A good breeding is a good breeding color has nothing to do with it...

Yes I do agree you can have a all chocolate litter with a black to chocolate.
What is needed is to have a color coat test done. I believe optigen offers that service. Costs around 150$ Both parents have to have this done to determine the color or colors of your litters.

You cannot certify any dog under 24mo of age. OFA will not do that. ALthough Cerf will. But you want the Cerf to be current within that year of breeding.
Also I would take your pup into the opthamologist right away. They can see if your dogs eyes are good right now. Better to know now than later when you want to breed and you have put alot of hard earned dollars, love and time.

Remember this is all information. I too had to learn this. Learning in the field of breeding is a ongoing process. Keep yourself educated. Get involved in a club, find a more seasoned breeder to glean information from, and compete with your dogs in some type of competition. Hunt test or Field trials are more desirable when selling gundogs. This is a expensive endeaver.

Good luck and take care!:)

[LabBreeder]

EEBb(black/choc carrier) X EEBb(black/choc carrier) = genotype: 1/4 EEBB + 1/2 EEBb + 1/4 EEbb---phenotype: 75% black pups + 25% choc pups

EEBb(black/choc carrier) X EEbb(choc) = genotype: 1/2 EEBb + 1/2 EEbb---phenotype: 50% black pups + 50% choc pups

As for colors...let's leave it at this. All Labs can have a black/yellow or chocolate gene...this doesn't guarantee you a specific color though. In order to get a chocolate pup (at LEAST 50% of the time) you must have 2 chocolates with only chocolate genes or a black w/ chocolate and a chocolate with chocolate genes. Yes, any color can carry any other color (I believe chocolates can only carry chocolate or yellow...but a black or yellow can carry all 3 colors). My point is, our 2 dogs will have blacks and chocolates. Whether it's 50/50 or 75/25 I don't know...but their will be both colors.

[LabBreeder]

If this was a "welcome" forum, I'd hate to see an unwelcome one...lol. Seriously though, she'll be OFA and CERF certified, he'll be CERF certified (if we even breed them when he's that young...since everyone thinks it's not the best thing, maybe we'll wait).
They do get fed in different bowls in different areas. He just comes over to see what she's doing and she'll growl at him when she's eating. We tried putting the food in his crate, but he keeps knocking things over (as puppies will do). Still, they are seperate when they eat.
She also growled and showed her teeth whenever my husband came home for lunch today. She wanted to be the center of attention (he's a truck driver and usually only home on weekends) but we love on both of them. She only wanted my husband to love on her and not Gunner. She did stop after being told "no" but you could tell she was still upset about it.
Believe me...everything will be checked, tested, certified, updated, etc before any puppies are born.
She has had basic training but is starting to pull on her harness when we take her out. She wants to sniff things that are beyond her reach. She'll stop pulling when we tell her to, but the first tug or two can get hard on your arm after awhile.

[MomOf7]

EEBb(black/choc carrier) X EEBb(black/choc carrier) = genotype: 1/4 EEBB + 1/2 EEBb + 1/4 EEbb---phenotype: 75% black pups + 25% choc pups

EEBb(black/choc carrier) X EEbb(choc) = genotype: 1/2 EEBb + 1/2 EEbb---phenotype: 50% black pups + 50% choc pups

As for colors...let's leave it at this. All Labs can have a black/yellow or chocolate gene...this doesn't guarantee you a specific color though. In order to get a chocolate pup (at LEAST 50% of the time) you must have 2 chocolates with only chocolate genes or a black w/ chocolate and a chocolate with chocolate genes. Yes, any color can carry any other color (I believe chocolates can only carry chocolate or yellow...but a black or yellow can carry all 3 colors). My point is, our 2 dogs will have blacks and chocolates. Whether it's 50/50 or 75/25 I don't know...but their will be both colors.

Very good! If you want to know for sure what color/s your 2 will have you can get the optigen test done. Its very accurate.
:)

[J's crew]

If this was a "welcome" forum, I'd hate to see an unwelcome one...lol. Seriously though, she'll be OFA and CERF certified, he'll be CERF certified (if we even breed them when he's that young...since everyone thinks it's not the best thing, maybe we'll wait).
They do get fed in different bowls in different areas. He just comes over to see what she's doing and she'll growl at him when she's eating. We tried putting the food in his crate, but he keeps knocking things over (as puppies will do). Still, they are seperate when they eat.
She also growled and showed her teeth whenever my husband came home for lunch today. She wanted to be the center of attention (he's a truck driver and usually only home on weekends) but we love on both of them. She only wanted my husband to love on her and not Gunner. She did stop after being told "no" but you could tell she was still upset about it.
Believe me...everything will be checked, tested, certified, updated, etc before any puppies are born.
She has had basic training but is starting to pull on her harness when we take her out. She wants to sniff things that are beyond her reach. She'll stop pulling when we tell her to, but the first tug or two can get hard on your arm after awhile.



Good! I am glad to hear you will be doing the right thing. There is tons of info on this site so take some time and read through the threads. I have been breeding and showing for some years and you can never learn to much. You might want to get involved with a local club in your area. I owe so much to my mentor for showing me what is what.

As for your female, it sounds like she needs her training stepped up quite a bit. Do a search on NILIF and implement this along with more training. And when you feed the pup in his crate close the door until he is done eating. I myself do not like anyone sniffing around my food when trying to eat so she probably feels the same. :)

Edited to add this link. Good info on NILIF. http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

[joce]

If your thinking of waiting to breed good. You learned something and its probally not a good feeling to come on a forum and hear this but we are all speaking the truth and we jsut care about the dogs. Look at some old threads and maybe you'll see how many people come here wnating to breed something,anything:p

Just watch with how the pup comes up. He'll probally adjust to the female being top dog but if he wants to be dominant also there may be a problem. It might be good to start keeping them apart at times anyway since there will be times they will have to be apart when she is in heat. Some pups will latch onto another dog and act like they cna't go on without the other. My dobe did it with my poor husky when he was a pup and she wanted nothing to do with him:p
He'll probally act like a nuttball when they are apart anyway though. Its a pain to have a male when you have an intact female. My boy wouldn't eat some days,others it was a constant whine.

[LabBreeder]

It's strange with them sometimes. She lets him try to mate with her, even though he's only 8 wks old (he doesn't even come close to getting it right, so don't worry) and she will lay there and let him pull her around by the nape of her neck like he's the dominant one (I'm guessing she's playing the "mommy" role when he does this to her). The only time she gets aggrivated with him is when he comes around her when she's eating (even then she doesn't growl all the time) or when she thinks she deserves all the attention (because she's been an only "child" for most of her life). The weird thing is, we had a jack russel/chihuahua mix female, only 7 lbs, and Tira never had a problem with her. They ate out of the same bowl even though there were seperate bowls available...Tira never growled at her or anything. I know Georgia was a female, smaller and so much less intimidating than the little boy we have now...but still. It's funny how the girls got along when there were no men around, but now that it's just Tira and a little man she doesn't quite know what to do yet. She even let him try to suckle on her, until his puppy teeth got a good hold!

[LabBreeder]

I went to the NILF website you metioned. I've done all of these things except ignore her when she demands attention and get her to stop jumping on new people for attention.
She'll sit when I open the door to go outside. She'll sit/speak for a treat. She'll sit to play fetch.
She just won't stop hopping/jumping up on people for attention when she meets them. Now, she doesn't do it with ALL people. Some people she's timid with, others she won't have anything at all to do with and the rest she wants to play/jump/lick them. After she gets the initial excitement out of her system she's fine.
When she comes by the chair and puts her head under my hand, it's a natural reaction to pet and love on her. The same goes for when I stop petting her or scratching behind her ears...she'll butt under my hand and toss it over the top of her head. She may do this 5 or 6 times until she thinks she's been loved on enough, then she stops. It sounds funny, but it can be a tad annoying. What can be done, at home, about the jumping. It's hard to get a dog to not jump when you yourself are excited about being home and seeing them. My husband is gone all week and loves it when she jumps on him (unless she scratches) and kisses his face. We've both tried to stop her from doing it but she looks so rejected and sad afterwards.
Any ideas?

[J's crew]

I went to the NILF website you metioned. I've done all of these things except ignore her when she demands attention and get her to stop jumping on new people for attention.
She'll sit when I open the door to go outside. She'll sit/speak for a treat. She'll sit to play fetch.
She just won't stop hopping/jumping up on people for attention when she meets them. Now, she doesn't do it with ALL people. Some people she's timid with, others she won't have anything at all to do with and the rest she wants to play/jump/lick them. After she gets the initial excitement out of her system she's fine.
When she comes by the chair and puts her head under my hand, it's a natural reaction to pet and love on her. The same goes for when I stop petting her or scratching behind her ears...she'll butt under my hand and toss it over the top of her head. She may do this 5 or 6 times until she thinks she's been loved on enough, then she stops. It sounds funny, but it can be a tad annoying. What can be done, at home, about the jumping. It's hard to get a dog to not jump when you yourself are excited about being home and seeing them. My husband is gone all week and loves it when she jumps on him (unless she scratches) and kisses his face. We've both tried to stop her from doing it but she looks so rejected and sad afterwards.
Any ideas?

Well, since she is growling when the puppy interferes with her getting attention then you need to be the one who initiates the affection at all times. You do not have to do this forever. I have dogs that come and bump my hand for petting all the time. I give it freely if that dog does not have any behavior problems. However if there is ever a fight for my attention, neither dog gets it until it is on my terms.

As far as jumping it will never be solved until your husband stops allowing it. My husband is also guilty of this. :rolleyes: It took along time for him to get the point that if he allows it our dogs will think they can jump on anyone. I have a rescue that was really bad with jumping. Every time she is about to jump on me I just turn my back to her. She figured out pretty quick it was not to fun to just jump on my back because she is not getting the attention she is looking for. Any time now that she looks like she is about to jump I just turn slightly and say AH AH.

I know it is hard to turn down those big doggy eyes but you will be glad you did in the end. She needs to know you are the leader and she will respect you for it. Once her issues are corrected feel free to love away! :)

[LabBreeder]

Just so you know...on Tira's father's side, all of the Hips were checked and all are either Good or Excellent! I went back 3 generations on her father's side and it's the same all the way. The Excellent's actually out weigh the Good's. I don't know about the mother's side. I can only go back 10 years, which would be '96, and her grandparents and such go back further than that by at least 1 year. :(
At least it's looking good genetically in regards to our females hips. Yay!

[LabBreeder]

I just checked the sire's side for CERF certification. It seems that they were all certified at some point, but none have been done this year yet. I imagine the ones born in the early 90's are not breeding/showing/hunting anymore and don't need it done. From what I could tell the last one was done in '00, was certified and didn't show any problems. Well, it said NONE so I'm assuming that means no problems.

[ihartgonzo]

It's good that they both have lines with good hips & elbows. However, with a breed like this, it is absolutely worth it to test! =) No need to rush things, you can spend the next 2 years working on YOUR relationship with your dogs, it sounds like you're already consumed with that. I feel ya, my Border Collie can get very jealous & snarky with our new puppy. I second the recommendation to seperate them when they aren't supervised, and give each dog individual attention. You and your hubby have to be the alphas, and lay down the laws strictly, to have happy & obedient dogs.

I'm very happy that you are open-minded about this. I'm sorry, but it did sound like, in your first post, you just wanted to breed regardless of health, performance, etc. On the internet, it's very hard to understand one's intentions of breeding in just a short post (especially with the prices. In the "rules of a BYB", posting prices before the puppies are born is one of the basic expectations! LOL! You should evaluate each puppy individually when they are about 6 weeks old, most definitely search for a professional opinion on what dogs have good structure for sporting & hunting, conformation, pet, etc). Seriously though, you will get MUCH better homes & owners, and a greater compensation (money-wise) for your effort if you wait to completely health test both parents, train both parents to be very well-mannered and obedient, and pursue sporting with both parents. Not to mention, won't you have a much clearer conscience if you KNOW your dogs are healthy and have excellent hunting & retrieving skills, instead of just HOPING and assuming they do? I do commend you for coming here, and for NOT breeding your Labs with Standard Poodles, or any other breed of dog! ;P

I hope you stick around, show us more of your beautiful pups, and seek as well as input training advice. Dock diving is amazing, and Labs are great at it, if you were considering "diving in" to sporting with that. There are competitions for dock diving around the country, I've even taken my Border Collie to an event!

[Allykat]

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e221/donky23/crybaby8fh.jpg


OMG!!! I am crying from laughter right now.

[LabBreeder]

allykat you are so stupid. i'll just inform the moderator that you are being ignorant and can not have a normal conversation. all you can do is try to make fun of or degrade people.

ihartgonzo - thanks. i just post the prices because i've seen other breeders, AKC, UKC etc have prices posted year round and change them as needed. (they have been breeding longer so it's probably o.k. for them to do it) sorry if that was wrong or offended anyone. i do have a website that has our little one's pictures, breed specs, pedigree, etc...it's alot better than doing something on a forum/thread. especially since people like allykat have nothing productive to say.

[Allykat]

First of all he's not going to be 7 months, jack ass! Get your facts straight!!
Oh I'm sorry 9.5 months, is that better.

sorry julie... i didn't even look at his name. i saw that he had made a snide remark about me and my labs and i don't appreciate it, especially when he gets his facts wrong!!
HER name!!!

tell you what. If you can get ALLYKAT to stop making false statements about what I may or may not be doing with MY dogs...then I will calm down.

When did I say you what you could or could not do. You can do whatever your little heart desires but I DON"T have to agree with it and I don;t have to like it. Its life, get over it. People frowned upon me when I got my Dobies ears cropped but did I care, NO. Its my dog and I can do as I please but I understand that not everyone is going to agree with me. Grow a thicker skin. I'm not the type to sugarcoat things.

[Allykat]

allykat you are so stupid. i'll just inform the moderator that you are being ignorant and can not have a normal conversation. all you can do is try to make fun of or degrade people.

Now thats mature. When did we start the name game, I thought that was over in kindergarten.

[LabBreeder]

yep, name calling is childish...just like what your doing to me. all you have to do is admit that you have the age of prospective breeding wrong for my male and that will be it.
as for your dog and cropping his ears....yes, that is wrong. it's purely a "beautification" procedure. all you did was mutilate your dog so he could look like what everyone else thought he should look like.
you talk a lot of crap about what other people do with their dogs, but you don't care what you do with yours. hmmm, a hypocrite...possibly.

[tessa_s212]

Educating this member more, asking questions to learn more about the situation, I can accept. But, the amount of rudeness I have seen in this post is horrible. People.. if you cannot control your own fingers that are typing, perhpas take a break from the internet? Bashing, making fun of, and critisizing will get no one anywhere.

To the OP-I'm sorry, I'd reply to you more, but I feel some others have already had some wonderful advice for you, and I am short on time. I hope you stay. I also had a rough start on this forum, but after deciding to stay, I learned to love it and like many members(and dislike many too). The way I saw it was this: If they can't treat new people well, someone will have to. That is why I stayed, and I am glad. Once you get past the ugly parts of this forum, there are truly some awesome people. But, you do have to get past those ugly parts...

Anyway, Welcome. (We LOVE pictures. :D)

[LabBreeder]

ok, so you got the age right.........finally.

and if you are a woman, act like one....

as for everything else...i'm done with you as long as you are done with me. otherwise i can just keep on going.

[Allykat]

yep, name calling is childish...just like what your doing to me. all you have to do is admit that you have the age of prospective breeding wrong for my male and that will be it.

BY TWO freaking months. When did I call you a "jackass" or "ignorant" or "stupid", not that I recall.



as for your dog and cropping his ears....yes, that is wrong. it's purely a "beautification" procedure. all you did was mutilate your dog so he could look like what everyone else thought he should look like.
you talk a lot of crap about what other people do with their dogs, but you don't care what you do with yours. hmmm, a hypocrite...possibly.

Oh, I love it. Its amazing how people hold their opinions so high but no one elses matters. I thougt you were the one who said I can do whateve I want with my dog. But that only applies for you, right?
Nope not a hyprocrite. I said people do talk sh*t all the time about my dog but I don't care. I can talk as much crap as I want, and people can talk all they want about me and my choices. Its a FACT OF LIFE, not everyone is going to agree with you, at least I'm not as naive as you to understand that. Grow up!!

ok, so you got the age right.........finally.
I wouldn't gloat about breeding a 9.5 month old dog.

and if you are a woman, act like one....
What in the hell is that supposed to mean. What does a women act like? Don't tell me that you are one of those who believe a place for a women is in the kitchen. I am a young lady actually but I will never keep my mouth shut because I'm a female.

as for everything else...i'm done with you as long as you are done with me. otherwise i can just keep on going.
Yippe!!!!

[Allykat]

Educating this member more, asking questions to learn more about the situation, I can accept. But, the amount of rudeness I have seen in this post is horrible. People.. if you cannot control your own fingers that are typing, perhpas take a break from the internet? Bashing, making fun of, and critisizing will get no one anywhere.

To the OP-I'm sorry, I'd reply to you more, but I feel some others have already had some wonderful advice for you, and I am short on time. I hope you stay. I also had a rough start on this forum, but after deciding to stay, I learned to love it and like many members(and dislike many too). The way I saw it was this: If they can't treat new people well, someone will have to. That is why I stayed, and I am glad. Once you get past the ugly parts of this forum, there are truly some awesome people. But, you do have to get past those ugly parts...

Anyway, Welcome. (We LOVE pictures. :D)

Coming from the girl who discredits and looks down upon anyone who does not use strickly positive training methods. But then again Tessa you are a perfect little angel.

[MomOf7]

Just so you know...on Tira's father's side, all of the Hips were checked and all are either Good or Excellent! I went back 3 generations on her father's side and it's the same all the way. The Excellent's actually out weigh the Good's. I don't know about the mother's side. I can only go back 10 years, which would be '96, and her grandparents and such go back further than that by at least 1 year. :(
At least it's looking good genetically in regards to our females hips. Yay!
How awsome is that?!!
Its great to have well bred dogs. Makes you appreciate the time, effort, thought, and money put into each litter. Makes you understand why some litters are so expensive!
Keep up the good work!


Please dont steal this thread to argue. Take it to pm please:rolleyes:

[brock23]

[QUOTE=LabBreeder]allykat you are so stupid. i'll just inform the moderator that you are being ignorant and can not have a normal conversation. all you can do is try to make fun of or degrade people.
QUOTE]


That's good, start telling on people to mods your first day on a board. Did you get that from "How to Win Friends and Influence People"? At least wait a week before you start tattling to the authorities. Of course with the pace your on you will have 5000 posts by then and they might make you a mod.

[MomOf7]

I will stay here, sit back and watch the games begin...Anyone up for some popcorn and a beer?
http://207.210.105.23/forum/images/smilies/animated/hidewall.gif

[Julie]

Yes, Thank you. I will take a beer. :D

[tessa_s212]

I will stay here, sit back and watch the games begin...Anyone up for some popcorn and a beer?
http://207.210.105.23/forum/images/smilies/animated/hidewall.gif

How bout Cheesecake and Pepsi!? Lol! Tessa doesn't like popcorn, and obviously can't have beer! :p

[blue]

[QUOTE=LabBreeder]allykat you are so stupid. i'll just inform the moderator that you are being ignorant and can not have a normal conversation. all you can do is try to make fun of or degrade people.
QUOTE]


That's good, start telling on people to mods your first day on a board. Did you get that from "How to Win Friends and Influence People"? At least wait a week before you start tattling to the authorities. Of course with the pace your on you will have 5000 posts by then and they might make you a mod.

I was the first mod and I probably fanned the flames to the ensuing flamefest and Chaz can take that as he wishes, lets all, including the OP, stop the flaming and maybe actually be constructive here.

I do have to say, Brock I busted a gut at that pic. Now lets all play nice.

[LabBreeder]

i thought i was done with allykat. she sent a nice little pm stating that she'd overreacted. apparently that was a lie.
you all can do whatever you want. i've already said i'm tired of arguing about this. allykat...do whatever you want, but you don't need to put others down about what they may (or may not) do when you yourself do things that are not liked. if you can't have a constructive opinion, then keep it to yourself.
as for mr/mrs. don't tattle on your first thread...whatever man. you say that now, but if it was you getting jumped on every few minutes i'm sure you'd get tired of it too.

[~Tucker&Me~]

OKay guys...
Settle down ;).
Glad to have you here LabBreeder. I look forward to seeing your dogs, they sound wonderful!
Any pics?

~Tucker

[SummerRiot]

Wow.. now that was one crazy read! lol

Welcome to chaz and post some pics!

[LabBreeder]

tucker - i have plenty of pics but i don't know how to post them on here. i can give you my website and let you look at them there though...at least for now. :)
http://www.geocities.com/silentwolf69x@sbcglobal.net/DLR.html
there are other links that go to more pictures and information btw.

[~Tucker&Me~]

Awww! Your dogs are beautiful :D!

~Tucker

[blue]

i thought i was done with allykat. she sent a nice little pm stating that she'd overreacted. apparently that was a lie.
you all can do whatever you want. i've already said i'm tired of arguing about this. allykat...do whatever you want, but you don't need to put others down about what they may (or may not) do when you yourself do things that are not liked. if you can't have a constructive opinion, then keep it to yourself.
as for mr/mrs. don't tattle on your first thread...whatever man. you say that now, but if it was you getting jumped on every few minutes i'm sure you'd get tired of it too.

You wanna see a flame fest find my thread tittled "Wolves".

[LabBreeder]

LOL at blue...i can just imagine!

thank you tucker...they are my babies!
your pup is cute as well. kinda has a burmese mountain dog look to him...just smaller. :)

[~Tucker&Me~]

Thanks! :D
He is a Golden Retriever/Border Collie/Australian Shepherd mix. He is such a ham...

~Tucker

[SummerRiot]

LabBreeder - go to www.photobucket.com
Open an account.. upload pictures then come back here.. clikc on the little button above the this text box that looks like two mountains and a sun in yellow, click on it and then copy and paste the URL link into it.

That is how you post pics on this forum :)

[ihartgonzo]

Definitely, your Labbies are beautiful! Again, I'm glad you are keeping an open mind.

(referring to Allykat's post)... I totally disagree with 'talking crap' and whoever wants to 'talk crap' can/should do so. That kind of idea really should not be promoted, or encouraged, at all! :( Opinions can be given without completely bashing, I think that's part of being mature.

[LabBreeder]

IMG]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j102/LabBreeder7579/dlrtira5.jpg[/IMG]

Hope this works! If so, this is Black Tear of Cheyene (Tira).

[LabBreeder]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j102/LabBreeder7579/dlrtira5.jpg

[LabBreeder]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j102/LabBreeder7579

This is Gunners Mate (Gunner) a week and a half before we got him. 7wks old in the pic

[LabBreeder]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j102/LabBreeder7579

[LabBreeder]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j102/LabBreeder7579/pup3_edited.jpg

[~Tucker&Me~]

*Dies*
She's beautiful and he is drop dead gorgeous!

~Tucker

[LabBreeder]

thank you very much tucker. :)
sorry it took so many blank posts to get it to work, but i have figured it out now. http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j102/LabBreeder7579/tira2.jpg
this is Tira with Georgia (jack russel/chihuahua mix) We had to give her to a good home in order to get Gunner. Only 2 pets allowed... :( She had indoor potty issues sometimes (poo/pee on loveseat) but she was a good pup. I'm just glad she's in a good home. She's got 3 boyfriends, a heated/cooled doggie house, always with another dog and doesn't have to worry about pottying on furniture now. They have our number if anything goes wrong they can bring her back. We sold her for $80 because we included the kennel, toys, food, bowls, leash and updated vet records with her. I wanted to make sure she had things she knew she could count on in a new place. I originally got her as a companion when me and my hubby had a 2 week seperation (we still got together on weekends) thanks to the people we were living with butting into our business...but that's in the past. I miss her, but I'm glad we have Tira and Gunner and that she's got a good home.

[SummerRiot]

holy crap those paws are dinner plates!

[LabBreeder]

told ya he was gonna be a big boy! and he's not even near being overweight. he's just big like his dad, mom and older siblings.

[~Tucker&Me~]

What a cutie...

~Tucker