Couple: Vet faked dog's death to give pet away [Archive]

Renee750il

04-29-2006, 11:54 AM

mojozen

04-29-2006, 12:05 PM

We had a vet here in town who told one of his clients that the Ch. Bloodhound bitch he was treating was terminally ill and that he should let the vet put her down. The owner wasn't ready to accept that diagnosis and wanted to take her to UT for examination at the veterinary school. The vet hemmed and hawed and wanted to treat her for another week, then called the owner a few days later to tell him his dog had died. The owner demanded to reclaim the body for an autopsy. Later that afternoon the vet's office called back and said there'd been a mistake, his dog was fine and recovering. "Miraculous!"

Not like there were several Bloodhounds there :rolleyes:

We all think the vet had a buyer for the Bloodhound. There aren't many of them around here, and this is one special dog.

Renee,
I've heard of that happening at boarding kennels. I think there was a case in Chicago (?) of a boarding kennel, telling people that their dogs had "run away" while the dog owners were on vacation... and it turns out later that the dogs were actually sold to other people!!! They discovered this because it happened mroe than a few times...

I think i will always go for a 2nd opinion on something like you detailed above. I think there are too many greedy people out there, who see a nice dog and sort of check their morals at the door.

Kenzie

04-29-2006, 12:06 PM

:eek: Similar story here in our small town. A couple of years ago it was found out the local Animal Control Officer had been picking up dogs whenever he saw one out loose, and telling the owners if they called him to ask if he'd seen their dog that their pet had been hit by a car and died and he'd been called to pick up a dead animal. He had been selling the dogs to research labs the whole time :eek: , telling the labs they'd never been claimed and were going to be pts. He was fired and charges filed.

Disgusting when those we trust with our most defenseless furbabies betray our trust!

JennSLK

04-29-2006, 12:18 PM

Do you think vets have the right to decide who is a good pet owner or not? Some times

Especially if they only see the dog in question a few times out of the year? If it is an obvious case of neglet then yes

Why didn't they demand to take the dog home for burial or cremation after her death? Personal reasons. Maybe they couldnt deal with that

Why did the former employee spill the beans? Guilt or Pissed off at being let go. She was a FORMER employee and it didnt say why she left.

dr2little

04-29-2006, 01:54 PM

[QUOTE=mojozen]http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/29/faked.euthanasia.ap/index.html

Interesting story. Raises some questions for me...

Do you think vets have the right to decide who is a good pet owner or not? Especially if they only see the dog in question a few times out of the year?

In certain circumstances, ABSOLUTELY!.
One example is that of a 16 month old German Pincher who was brought into the clinic to be PTS (killed) because the lady said she was aggressive. I was teaching a class at the time and the Vet. came and pulled me out of my class to talk to the lady in hopes of providing training options (which I would have waved the fee for). After questioning the lady, it was clear that her husband, who had never wanted the dog simply wanted it "gotten rid of". I asked the lady to sign the dog over to me (I would train and rehome her) and I even said we could draw up papers to protect her from any legal issues of any kind regarding the dog....all the while I was stroking this beautiful creature.
I finally left her to think about what I had said and went back to teaching my class, confident that I now had a new challenge (training and rehoming this gorgeous dog) and had helped this women leave with a clean conscience. I WAS WRONG. A few minutes later, the Vet appeared looking very upset and proceeded to prepare a needle....we looked at each other and she just shook her head and tried not to cry.
As the class progressed, 2 other staff members walked through the area that I hold my classes in trying to go about the rest of their day, but both had obviously been crying. When the class was over, I heard how the women flat out insisted that this was what her husband wanted her to do and she didn't want to get in trouble. The staff said this dog fought the drug, not physically but tried so hard not to "fall asleep". The staff held and stroked this dear creature, telling her how very sorry they were while she drew her last breath and finally gave in to what the owner she trusted decide her fate to be.

I only spent a few minutes with her but the impact on my heart and the feeling of complete helplessness will be with me forever.
The only reason that my Vet did the proceedure instead of turning her away was because she's been down this road enough times to know that if she had refused, some other Vet would have done it and most likely without the kindness that she and the staff tried so hard to show. The women sat in the room, void of emotion while the proceedure was carried out.
I can only hope that one day the human race wakes up and realizes that we do not own our dogs the same way we do other property. It is a privilege to have them share our lives and we all need to protect them.

Renee750il

04-29-2006, 02:10 PM

Thanks for that insight, Doc. I think in some cases the more ethical you are the harder the decisions are. I don't think I would have handled that case very well . . . Poor creature. Probably made defensive by the owners' lacks.

I can only hope that one day the human race wakes up and realizes that we do not own our dogs the same way we do other property. It is a privilege to have them share our lives and we all need to protect them.

Very eloquent. This should be printed and framed and hung up in every veterinary office in a prominent place.

bubbatd

04-29-2006, 02:31 PM

DR that's so sad !!!!

Zoom

04-29-2006, 02:55 PM

There was another member on here who had a similar story. Her Rottie had been stung by a bee, she rushed him to the vet where he 'died'. A month later she finds out that another couple's Rottie had been brought in the same day and actually died, and her Rottie was given to them. She got her dog back, but the whole thing was rather surreal.

soft pawz

04-29-2006, 04:51 PM

The only reason that my Vet did the proceedure instead of turning her away was because she's been down this road enough times to know that if she had refused, some other Vet would have done it and most likely without the kindness that she and the staff tried so hard to show.

just because somebody else might do it is not a good reason to do it. your vet should have turned her away!!!!!!!!!! how could she do that?
vets are supose to help animals not kill perfectly healthy ones.
now its her fault that dog died. she put the needle in, she killed it. and kindness???? there is no kindness in death!
if she would have turned her away maybe the women would have reconsidered. there should be a law against that anyway.....killing perfectly healthy animal is so wrong.
she made herself just as guilty of this dogs murder as the owner. some poeple really shouldnt be allowed to own dogs, those owners are for sure one of them.....

dr2little

04-29-2006, 06:04 PM

just because somebody else might do it is not a good reason to do it. your vet should have turned her away!!!!!!!!!! how could she do that?

I know what you're saying but in my Vets defense and like I said in my post, she's seen this story play out time and time again...always with the same result. There are many times where she has given them my card for training and refused to put a dog to sleep. When they don't call me I always follow up and without exception, find that the dog was "killed" (usually within a hour of being turn away from our clinic)by the other Vet in our area who is know for his lack of compassion. This is something that I'm sure many Vets. go through. In many cases, their hands are tied. You must understand that while I am as my Vet would be, in total agreement with you, when an owner wants to distroy what they consider to be their property, they will get the job done....that's the whole point of my article.s I must also tell you that the Vet in my article has her back office kennels filled with dogs who she has successfully had owners sign over because she has refused to put them down. She and the other staff ready these dogs for new homes and most are successfully rehomed. These kennels were built to add revenue as boarding kennels and she rarely if ever has a dog in a "paying" kennel.

vets are supose to help animals not kill perfectly healthy ones.
now its her fault that dog died. she put the needle in, she killed it. and kindness???? there is no kindness in death!
if she would have turned her away maybe the women would have reconsidered. there should be a law against that anyway.....killing perfectly healthy animal is so wrong.
she made herself just as guilty of this dogs murder as the owner. some poeple really shouldnt be allowed to own dogs, those owners are for sure one of them.....

So sad that you missed the point. This Vet is the farthest from unkind or unethical. Years of experience and maturity forced this Vet to do what she did to ensure that this dogs last moments were not filled with terror. I can't imagine the weight her heart has to carry for many of the decisions she has to make. If you had been there, you would have had a different opion. This lady was not changing her mind

PoodleMommy

04-29-2006, 06:11 PM

I really think there should be a law against this.

If you were willing to work with and rehome this dog, that vet should not have been forced to put the dog to sleep.

I think vets should have the ability to turn people down and gain "custody" of the animal in question.

ELissa

dr2little

04-29-2006, 06:25 PM

[QUOTE=PoodleMommy]I really think there should be a law against this.

If you were willing to work with and rehome this dog, that vet should not have been forced to put the dog to sleep.

I think vets should have the ability to turn people down and gain "custody" of the animal in question.

YES! That's exactly my point. The sad truth is that if you check your animal welfare laws, you'll find that Vets. have no control. Even bylaw officers have to "tread lightly" when investigating anyone regarding an animals welfare due to the ownership bulls**t! We live in Calgary..Canada and I know our laws are no worse than U.S but certainly no better either.:mad:

Renee750il

04-29-2006, 06:31 PM

dr2little

04-29-2006, 06:43 PM

How about some laws parallelling those requiring hospitals and medical personnel to report suspected abuse to children . . . Perhaps allowing vets to take the animals into their custody under circumstances of an owner insisting on killing a healthy animal.

That's exactly what we need. How can we still be a society that allows individuals to minimize the value of our pets welfare. I know we're headed in the right direction, but GAWWWD it's seem's to be such a slow journey. I was just at a private training session with a family who had 3 wee maltese mixes with some pretty minor issues. They said they had hired another trainer prior to calling me who brought along with him what he called "training collars"...tiny little CHOKE CHAINS. Long story short..they sent him packing before he even took off his shoes..PROGRESS:D

Renee750il

04-29-2006, 06:47 PM

:rolleyes: What was next if the chokes didn't achieve the desired results . . . tiny little prong collars? Teensy little muzzles?

elegy

04-29-2006, 07:06 PM

just because somebody else might do it is not a good reason to do it. your vet should have turned her away!!!!!!!!!! how could she do that?
vets are supose to help animals not kill perfectly healthy ones.
now its her fault that dog died. she put the needle in, she killed it. and kindness???? there is no kindness in death!
if she would have turned her away maybe the women would have reconsidered. there should be a law against that anyway.....killing perfectly healthy animal is so wrong.
she made herself just as guilty of this dogs murder as the owner. some poeple really shouldnt be allowed to own dogs, those owners are for sure one of them.....

there are much worse things than a humane death.

perfectly healthy animals die every single day in this country in shelters after being dumped into a completely alien environment and stressed beyond belief. i'm far from agreeing with the owner's actions, but i see no fault with the vet's.

dr2little

04-29-2006, 07:21 PM

there are much worse things than a humane death.

perfectly healthy animals die every single day in this country in shelters after being dumped into a completely alien environment and stressed beyond belief. i'm far from agreeing with the owner's actions, but i see no fault with the vet's.

Thanks for that. I was starting to feel bad for sharing this story. The last thing that this Vet. deserves is a negative response to something that I know made her rethink her desision to become a Vet. And YES, after reading the response by soft pawz (although I do understand the compassion and anger), I sat and pictured the alternative experience that this beautiful creature could have faced, and I agree with you there are worse things than a humane death. We all would have loved nothing better than to have had the right to save this dog.

elegy

04-29-2006, 07:31 PM

it's a hard line to walk between the Right Thing and the best thing for that animal in that specific situation. the doctors i work for have told people no, they will not euthanize, but around here, many people will just take 'em out back and shoot 'em. much better for them to be euthanized by us, really. sometimes we're able to get people to sign pets over, but some people just won't. i'll never understand it.

dr2little

04-29-2006, 09:29 PM

:rolleyes: What was next if the chokes didn't achieve the desired results . . . tiny little prong collars? Teensy little muzzles?

CAN'T YOU JUST PICTURE IT....HEHE:D This guy used to work for a chain here in Calgary and called himself "The Dog Whisperer"...too funny. He's since been fired for cruelty and now works outdoor construction (I'll be praying for a COLD WINTER). Dress warm "Dog Yanker"!!!!!!!!!!

Allykat

04-29-2006, 11:10 PM

:rolleyes: What was next if the chokes didn't achieve the desired results . . . tiny little prong collars? Teensy little muzzles?

Actually the "micro" prong already exists.

http://leerburg.com/prong.htm#micro

And I have seen very small muzzles that were too small for my friend's Chi puppy.

dr2little

04-30-2006, 12:03 AM

Actually the "micro" prong already exists.

http://leerburg.com/prong.htm#micro

And I have seen very small muzzles that were too small for my friend's Chi puppy.

The humor isn't in IF they exist but rather what kind of NUTCASE would have to resort to using either of them for training. Yes, I know....some Chi's need to be muzzled for Vet. proceedures.....:D

soft pawz

04-30-2006, 02:01 AM

So sad that you missed the point. This Vet is the farthest from unkind or unethical. Years of experience and maturity forced this Vet to do what she did to ensure that this dogs last moments were not filled with terror. I can't imagine the weight her heart has to carry for many of the decisions she has to make. If you had been there, you would have had a different opion. This lady was not changing her mind

i see your point and i am not saying that the vet enjoyed doing it. you can never know 100% what is going to happen, even if you got years of experience. and even if it wouldnt change the womens mind i wouldnt do it.
the vet knew it was wrong to put that dog to sleep. so just because another vet might do it anyway is NO good reason to do it and wipe out any change that the dog eventually would have had.....even if it would have been just a tiny one.

its never wrong to do the right thing.....
i really didnt want to upset you or make you sorry for posting this. it is just such a heartbraking story and so wrong....
i didnt mean to say that the vet did this easily or is a bad vet ingenerell.
i wish that vet would have had other options like rehoming the dog.
no vet should be forced to euthanize a healthy dog or being made part of that crime. if all the owner wants to do is get rid of the dog and kill it then i think a vet should have every right to take the dog and put it in another home.

to go back to the original story: its not ok to brake the law though so i dont think they should have done it....specially because i think in that special case the owner put the dog to sleep because it was suffering not just to get rid of it......

MyIrishWolfie

04-30-2006, 03:34 AM

Thats just rotten, beyond mean and the new owners wouldn't give the dog back. I would've gone into hysterics too. :eek:

IliamnasQuest

04-30-2006, 03:59 AM

I have mixed feelings as to whether or not a vet should be able to say if a person is a fit owner or not.

There are a number of (in my opinion) unfit vets out there. If we give them the power to say "you don't deserve this dog" then there are some that will take full advantage of it and that's certainly not right. Letting someone with a limited exposure to your dog say that you're a bad owner is a huge risk.

In the case of the epileptic German shepherd .. well, the people were having the dog put down due to health reasons and the vet was obligated to either do what they ask or send them away. To steal the dog and rehome it wasn't right. The dog lasted another 9 months and if she had seizures every couple of weeks - that's at least 18 seizures during that time before she lapsed into a "coma". If the dog couldn't be made better, then I'm not sure that the vet wasn't the one being cruel. Sometimes euthanasia is a kindness.

In the story that dr2little shared, I can see that this would have been a much more difficult dilemma. The owner was offered a very kind solution and rejected it. Legally you're stuck .. and yes, I agree that this woman would have just gone somewhere else and had the dog destroyed anyway. When people are adamant about getting rid of a piece of property they're not going to stop just because of one "no". Unfortunately many do consider dogs just property.

I remember one of the first euthanasias I helped with. It was a big beautiful puppy, about 8 months old. He was friendly and happy - looked kind of like a Bernese Mountain Dog. The guy who brought him in wanted him put to sleep because the pup had had ONE seizure and he didn't want to have a dog that was going to be sick. We couldn't talk him into any testing or anything else. He came in specifically to have the dog put down and that was it. And yes, we did it. I cried.

That euthanasia will always stay with me because this pup could very well have lived a long and healthy life. But in our area, if someone doesn't provide euthanasia then people just shoot their dogs. We couldn't talk this owner into anything but death for his dog. OH - and he wanted the collar back, because (in his words) "I'll just go get another dog".

I ended up with my first chow because the owners were going to kill her and we offered to let them sign her over to the clinic - and they did. We fixed her medical problems and she's been with me for over 14 years now.

As far as why they didn't demand to take the dog home after euthanasia (in the original story) .. a lot of people choose not to take their pets home. Many people think that once the pet dies, what they loved is gone anyway and the body is just a body. Some don't have access to somewhere they can bury them, or can't afford the cost of cremation (cost me $80 to cremate my cat last January).

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

lucille

04-30-2006, 08:54 AM

Renee,
I've heard of that happening at boarding kennels. I think there was a case in Chicago (?) of a boarding kennel, telling people that their dogs had "run away" while the dog owners were on vacation... and it turns out later that the dogs were actually sold to other people!!! They discovered this because it happened mroe than a few times...

I think i will always go for a 2nd opinion on something like you detailed above. I think there are too many greedy people out there, who see a nice dog and sort of check their morals at the door.

How scary. I'm NEVER leaving my dogs ANYWHERE after this......

Crotalus

05-01-2006, 12:03 AM

Do you think vets have the right to decide who is a good pet owner or not? Especially if they only see the dog in question a few times out of the year?

Absolutely not. If the vet suspects the animal is being abused somehow I feel it is their responsibility to contact animal authorities. Animal cruelty is against the law, in some places it is a felony to harm animals. I do not believe it is the vet's right to take an animal from it's master based on their judgement.

In this case the owners were doing what they thought was best for their suffering pet. The vet only saw the dog when she was brought in for siezure treatments, not between times when she was at home with her family. Her masters were the only people that knew best what her quality of life between siezures. Obviously they cared for their dog if they were taking her for medical treatment. There are a lot of people out there who would just abandon a dog in that condition, try to give it away, or ignore the condition entirely. The fact that she had to be later euthanized for the reason her first owners brought her in to be euthanized speaks for itself. She was suffering and the veterinarian not only stole her from her family, he also prolonged the suffering they tried to spare her from.

I find it suspicious that a lot of the dogs "rehomed" by people with good intentions are purebreds....

Why did the former employee spill the beans?

It was probably riding on her conscience. Maybe the employee didn't want to say anything while working there for fear of losing the job.

casablanca1

05-02-2006, 10:33 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/29/faked.euthanasia.ap/index.html Interesting story. Raises some questions for me... Do you think vets have the right to decide who is a good pet owner or not? Especially if they only see the dog in question a few times out of the year? Why didn't they demand to take the dog home for burial or cremation after her death? Why did the former employee spill the beans?

Even if they had asked for cremation, they would have had no way of knowing whether the ashes they were given were their dog's. And many people are unable to bury their dog on their property.

But I'm torn by this story. On the one hand, I'm not a fan of euthanasia. I've heard the 'good death' and the 'mercy' arguments, and I've had a dog with terminal cancer put to sleep. But I never felt good about it, and I remain dubious whether we have the right to kill our loved ones in the name of anything, let alone kindness. The death of a suffering family member, pet or human, is also a relief to the family's agony of witnessing that suffering. There is a danger of covering up that relief and justifying ourselves with vaunted kindness when we're really trying to relieve our own pain. So when I read that the dog lived another 8 months of relatively good life after he was supposed to be killed, I wonder how serious the owners were about balancing their pet's interests against their own needs.

On the other hand, I know very well how judgemental and self-aggrandizing animal people can be. It's a strikingly arrogant act to allow someone to suffer the death of their pet, all the while secretly swooping the dog off to a new owner.

In any case, that vet clinic is up a crick.

Renee750il

05-02-2006, 12:44 PM

Yes, I know....some Chi's need to be muzzled for Vet. proceedures.....:D

I've seen a vet have to muzzle a Chi, lol! He did it very well - just a soft, wide piece of tee shirt material, looped over and loosely tied just long enough to take a temp and give a shot at the very end of the exam. That was on angry little dog!

Seriously - perhaps a worthwhile project would be to draft a Companion Animals' Bill of Rights to submit to our individual legislators . . .

PFC1

05-02-2006, 02:07 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/29/faked.euthanasia.ap/index.html

Do you think vets have the right to decide who is a good pet owner or not? Especially if they only see the dog in question a few times out of the year?

I would ask the question slightly differently: Should a vet have the discretion to make a final un-appealable decision to terminate your rights in your pet?

(What if the basis for the decision to terminate your rights is that you choose to feed raw rather than to buy Science Diet from her?)

Renee750il

05-02-2006, 04:05 PM

To tell the truth, the sole final discretion - at this point in the discussion - that I would allow a single person is to give veterinarians the discretion to decide against euthanizing an animal. When an owner makes the decision to euthanize a sound animal the attending veterinarian should have the discretion to take custody of the animal rather than killing it and the former owners' proprietary rights should be set aside.

casablanca1

05-02-2006, 04:21 PM

It just occured to me that if vets had the right to refuse to euthanize, they could get the right to force an owner to euthanize. That would be horrible.

Renee750il

05-02-2006, 05:13 PM

The two don't have to be mutually inclusive!

PFC1

05-02-2006, 06:07 PM

The two don't have to be mutually inclusive!
True, but the first could be the camel's nose under the tent.

Renee750il

05-03-2006, 10:33 AM

It could be, if the statute were written either carelessly or with that end in mind. But bear in mind that even the statutes regarding reporting child abuse don't allow a medical care provider to just snatch a child away. They are required to report the suspected abuse and allow authorities to step in and make the determination.

Gustav

05-04-2006, 04:36 AM

All in all a tricky subject, I totally agree that some provision should be made so that animals in good health, and a good state of mind, shouldn't be needlessly euthanized. Especially if there is someone waiting and willing to become responable for said animal!!

But on the other hand.... Sick animals do have the luxury of being Euthanized, and I do mean Luxury, my great Grandma was dieing incredibly slowly of terminal cancer, it was eating her up inside and there was nothing the doctors could do for her, except to watch her suffer. She was always a very proud lady and one day she said to one of the doctors making the rounds in the hospice "If I was a dog, you would take me to the vets, and I would leave in peace and dignity!" The doctor could do nothing but agree with her.

The last thing we would want is for this to happen to our animals, so any law would have to take Humane Euthanazia in to account, Not sure how that would work, as then how do you define "Humane" would it only be for dogs suffering from a critical illness, and then where do you place the cut off? Surely there would have to be a suffering scale, where minor suffering was ok, but once they had passed above and beyond the vet would be legally covered to euthanize??? It all becomes a question of how much is too much?

Just musing really.