Training....

[Rayna 3]

What are some of your techniques for training a pup/dog to 'stay'?

I've been reading online, but there are several different opinions and I would like to see what some yours are as well please.

Thanks!

[RedyreRottweilers]

I start with the puppy sitting at my left side, on a buckle collar. I put slight upward tension on the leash, just enough to keep the pup from moving.

I then change hands, holding my leash with the right hand, and give the stay signal and verbal command with my left hand. (left arm straight, hand straight with fingers together, raise arm out in front of you, and come down to just in front of the dog's nose).

Then, holding the tension on the leash so the pup can't move, I pivot right in front of him where I will want him to be when he comes in to front in more advanced training. I count 3, pivot back. and release and praise.

Gradually I work to the point where I don't have to have tension on the leash.

I NEVER repeat the stay command, however, I will repeat the position command (sit) and praise the dog for staying....(Goooooood sit)

I give LOTS of food rewards in the beginning for not moving position. In the learning stages it's VERY IMPORTANT to correct ANY movement of feet or repositioning the dog does on it's own. No rolling over on a hip, no foot movement, or repositioning allowed. If the dog moves, put it back right where it was, gently, but firmly. Once it's back, say GOOOOOOD sit.

Work up to where you can go out to the end of a 6 foot leash. Don't be in a hurry. Give LOTS of rewards for good staying. Walk back in with a smile, and treat the dog. Treat from both hands, and also keep food in your mouth occasionally and take treats from there. Encourage attention to you as well.

As the dog learns and gets more firm on the stay, I introduce other things to help the dog stretch and learn about staying. The first thing is tension on the collar. To begin to teach this, I gently hold the muzzle, and gently put forward tension on the leash. I sort of "push/pull" back and forth very gently until the puppy is resisting the tension on the leash. Leave the gentle tension for 10 seconds or so, and then release and praise.

Work to where you can go to the end of the 6 foot leash, put tension on the leash, and the dog will resist and not move.

Once the dog is to this point, it's time to start with mild distractions. With distractions, you WANT your dog to make a mistake. If the dog does not move and get put back, he's not learning anything about stays. Introduce a mild distraction that will cause the pup to break. A ball. A person walking by speaking to him, etc. When he moves, put him back, remind "SIT....Good sit". Reward, and release. Once the puppy has been put back, MINIMIZE the distraction slightly so the puppy can be successful at staying, and then release and praise BIG time.

REAL stays, where the dog absolutely understands it is NOT to move, even under distraction, takes time, patience, and lots of innovative training under a wide variety of distractions.

Stays will not be learned in weeks. Not REAL stays. REAL stays are learned over MONTHS of consistent training and gradual building of time and distractions.

[RedyreRottweilers]

No one else wants to tell how they train stays?

Melanie?

OrionW?

Makenzie?

AnimalBiz?

Doberkim?

[makenzie71]

Makenzie?

My prefered method is indoors in a slightly confined space...a hallway, for example. This minimizes distractions.

If the pup already knows sit, I have them do that. Make sure you have a treat in your hand that they can see...dogs know what they are and they want those treats and will work for them.

I then hold my left hand flat (think "STOP") and say sternly "Stay." I wait about 10 seconds or so, then I slowly take a big step back, keeping my "stop" hand up. If the dog starts to rise I step back foward and repeat "Stay." They'll usually sit back down...if not, start over.

If I can step back and the dog stays, I wait for about 10 seconds. I then come back to the dog, drop my "Stop" hand, praise the dog and give them the treat.

I then do a couple other rouine tricks and go back.

The second time, I take two steps back, repeating the same process.

If you have to start over more than once, do some other tricks. Some dogs will confuse and frustrate easily and it makes training rather difficult.

Keep working at it until you can step completely out of site without the dog following. Also incorparate your heel/come commands while training stay. After he's gotten proficient at it, try the heel/come command (or whichever you use) and use stay after he's covered half the distance to see if he's learned the command thoroughly.

One big thing that's helped me is to not work on any one trick for more than 10 minutes, and to not prolong "new tricks" training sessions for more than half an hour, 2 to 3 times a day.

[zoe08]

I use the stop hand signal also. I told her to stay and then took a step back. The second you see the dog is wanting to get up, step in front of the dog, use the release word "OK" , and give treat when the dog is standing. OK means they stand now. It is best to not use "come" when training stay because the dog will get easily confused. At first you should always release the dog when it is right in front or right next to you.

I could probably explain a lot better, only I am sick tonight.

[RedyreRottweilers]

My prefered method is indoors in a slightly confined space...a hallway, for example. This minimizes distractions.

Who does dog training in a hallway? I don't.

If the pup already knows sit, I have them do that.

what basic behavior do you start with, if it's not sit? And sit where? Heel position? In front? Where? Left side? Right side?

Make sure you have a treat in your hand that they can see...dogs know what they are and they want those treats and will work for them.

Work for them? Dogs have no idea about working for a treat until they are being trained and rewarded.

I then hold my left hand flat (think "STOP") and say sternly "Stay." I wait about 10 seconds or so, then I slowly take a big step back, keeping my "stop" hand up. If the dog starts to rise I step back foward and repeat "Stay." They'll usually sit back down...if not, start over.

why would you wait TEN SECONDS ( an ETERNITY when a dog is learning a behavior) before you leave? Why take a step back? Back from where? where are you standing? Where is the dog? If you step away from the dog backwards, when does he learn to stay with you walking away normally?

They will usually sit back down? Are you not controlling this with your leash?

If I can step back and the dog stays, I wait for about 10 seconds.

Who is the leader here? Why would you let the DOG control this situation? Why start out with a 10 second wait?

I then come back to the dog, drop my "Stop" hand, praise the dog and give them the treat.

You hold your hand up the entire time of the exercise? How then do you ever train out of sight stays? How do you ever compete in any trial, since that is not allowed there?

I then do a couple other rouine tricks and go back.

The second time, I take two steps back, repeating the same process.

If you have to start over more than once, do some other tricks. Some dogs will confuse and frustrate easily and it makes training rather difficult.

Keep working at it until you can step completely out of site without the dog following.

So you move directly from stays to out of sight stays?

Also incorparate your heel/come commands while training stay. After he's gotten proficient at it, try the heel/come command (or whichever you use) and use stay after he's covered half the distance to see if he's learned the command thoroughly.

why would you call a dog off a stay? would this not be confusing to the dog? I use a different command if I am going to ask the dog to move. Stay means one thing. DO NOT MOVE.

One big thing that's helped me is to not work on any one trick for more than 10 minutes, and to not prolong "new tricks" training sessions for more than half an hour, 2 to 3 times a day.

It is the rare dog that can concentrate for a 30 minute training session. Training is best kept to 10 to 15 minutes, more than once per day if you need more time.

[makenzie71]

Who does dog training in a hallway? I don't.

what basic behavior do you start with, if it's not sit? And sit where? Heel position? In front? Where? Left side? Right side?

Work for them? Dogs have no idea about working for a treat until they are being trained and rewarded.

why would you wait TEN SECONDS ( an ETERNITY when a dog is learning a behavior) before you leave? Why take a step back? Back from where? where are you standing? Where is the dog? If you step away from the dog backwards, when does he learn to stay with you walking away normally?

They will usually sit back down? Are you not controlling this with your leash?

Who is the leader here? Why would you let the DOG control this situation? Why start out with a 10 second wait?

You hold your hand up the entire time of the exercise? How then do you ever train out of sight stays? How do you ever compete in any trial, since that is not allowed there?

So you move directly from stays to out of sight stays?

why would you call a dog off a stay? would this not be confusing to the dog? I use a different command if I am going to ask the dog to move. Stay means one thing. DO NOT MOVE.

It is the rare dog that can concentrate for a 30 minute training session. Training is best kept to 10 to 15 minutes, more than once per day if you need more time.

oh....my....god....

[bubbatd]

Redy... don't you agree it depends on the age of the pup ??? I too think hallways are great a certain ages, certain trainings. I worked with sit and stay with 7 wk pups... A gentle sit .. the hand across nose sign .. hand on pup until I show treat ,,, release and praise. They learn young which helps when it come to being on leach and sirious stuff. I feel what you pointed out is more older obedience. Give Mackenzie a break !

[IliamnasQuest]

Well, I train stays a little bit different. As with most of my training, I want the dog to think through what we're doing and make a conscious choice to hold the sit - not through intimidation, but through choice. Later on I'll do some proofing, but initially I want a good thought process going on.

I have the dog sit at my left side, and I put my left hand through the back of the dog's collar. I reach forward with my right hand and I put a treat out in front of the dog on the floor. Most dogs will then try to get up and go to the treat. I just quietly and calmly hold onto the collar, letting the dog try to go forward but keeping them from doing so. After 15 seconds or so, I'll gently place the dog back into a sit. If the dog holds the sit for just a second, I reach out and pick up the treat while saying "YES!!" (or clicking, if a clicker is being used) and I quickly bring the treat to the dog's mouth.

Then I put another treat out and do the same thing. I remain very patient as the dog tries to get to the treat - I let them struggle and I don't nag them with more commands. I want those little brains to be actively working!

It doesn't take long for the dog to figure out that sitting still equals getting the treat - and that trying to get to the treat doesn't get anything. You can see the light bulb come on and the dogs plant their butts and sit there. As soon as the dog holds the sit for a second or two, the treat comes back to them and the reward word is given. As they get better at this, you can put several treats out and if the dog continues to hold the sit position, you can keep bringing treats to him while praising for the sit.

When giving the treats, if the dog gets up that's fine. I'm not expecting a lengthy stay but I'm willing to give more treats if the dog is willing to sit longer. If the dog gets up (or lays down) I simply stop giving treats or praise. I wait a short time (maybe pick up the treats and do a little walk with the dog) and then I have the dog sit and we do it again. The dog can't do anything "wrong" at this point - they simply get reinforced for sitting and not reinforced for not sitting.

I don't use any verbal commands during this initial training, nor do I use a hand signal. I simply let the dog figure out the game and the dogs LOVE it. It's highly reinforcing and transfers easily over to both a down stay and a sit stay.

Gradually (and gradually means over a period of days/weeks or whatever is needed) I put the food farther away (to the point of having to step out away from the dog to leave the food and to retrieve the food). I also slowly increase the amount of time between treats as they stay. When the behavior is really solid (dog butt doesn't move at all with food out there) I add in a stay command and a hand signal.

During this I also start treating from my pocket at times, so they start to learn that the reward won't always come from the pile on the floor. Then once I've introduced the command/signal, I phase out the treats on the floor.

We teach this method in our puppy classes and it's really neat to look around and see a dozen 10-14 week old puppies all doing a stay, eyes riveted on a treat on the floor in front of them but refusing to budge because they understand that if they move the treat goes away.

One of the most important things in this is to never allow your dog to get to that treat! This is a handler error. If a handler is paying attention it's not a problem - and if they're not paying attention they shouldn't be trying to train their dog at that moment.

I've used the other methods but this one has been the most effective of all that I've found.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

[Zoom]

My method is simliar enough to Red's that I'm not going to retype out mine. One thing however, is that I NEVER call a dog from a stay. I always go back so that the dog is in the heel position before giving the release command, so that the dog understands in time that only when I am by it's side will it get released. Calling a dog from a stay won't do much to reinforce it. No one ever has a problem getting a dog to come from a stay, just the stay itself.

Also, I start to add in some distractions in the form of rocking or side stepping, so that A) The dog isn't bored by looking at me standing passively at the end of a leash and B) it teaches them that just because I'm moving doens't necessarily mean they can.

[makenzie71]

No one ever has a problem getting a dog to come from a stay, just the stay itself.

It's not training him to come to you from stay...if you read my post, it's training him to stop and stay everytime the command is administered, regardless of where you are.

For example, a great percentage of the dogs hit by cars are simply attempting to follow their owners across a street. With the generic attempt of the "stay" command the dog recognizes this as "go to owner, sit, stay." Understanding it as "sit where I am, stay" can be beneficial to life in situations such as if your dog is trying to cross a street with moving traffic to follow you to the neighbor's.
(yes I know most of us take precautions to eliminate that specific example, but accidents happen)

I personally have found it greatly beneficial to both myself and my dog that he knows "stay" as a "right now, right here" command.

[zoe08]

You can also try stay around. Where the dog must sit still while you walk all the way around. So that even if the dog cant see you it must stay. But it is better to start just taking a step to the side. Step back, release then treat. And slowly do that to make your way all the way around.

[BullyLover]

oh....my....god....


Tell me about it.... :rolleyes:

[Dizzy]

;) lol.

Anyone else got an idea? So I can quote it, pick through it, and fault it?

Have to say. On training. I WOULD repeat the stay command. As you want inaction rather than action.

I would NOT repeat a sit command. If you ask, the dog ignores and you persist, you are basically allowing the dog to disobey you.

[Fran27]

Like Dizzy said.

Something you can do when the dog doesn't sit after you say it once, is just wait 10 seconds, then say something like 'oops' and turn away and ignore the dog for 10 seconds, then start the command again. It's what our trainer told us, and it teaches the dog that he won't get anything, even your attention, if he doesn't do what you ask.

[Renee750il]

The one constant factor is that there is no ONE way to train dogs! Every single solitary one of them is different, and for the best effect, you've just got to pay attention to what trips your dog's trigger to learn.