Keep biting me !

[lovelymonster]

My 8 moths old puppy like to bite me.. hands, legs, anywhere in body.

Sometimes he really bite my legs, very painful.

I firmly said "NO", he wont stop, shout at him or scold him, he even more fierce.

Any advise ?

[makenzie71]

What kind of puppy? How big is he? Is he aggressive or is he playing?

[zoe08]

Have you tried spraying bitter apple on you? It is a spray that has a bad taste they dont like.

Also you can try yelping as if you were like the mother dog. The one time my puppy bit me really hard I screamed cuz it hurt. After that she crawled into my lap and knew it was bad and was trying to be all sweet.

I think all puppies bite. I am sure he will definitely grow out of by the time he is about a year. Most do. But keep saying no and give him something he is allowed to bite, like a chew toy.

[lovelymonster]

Is corgi.

Sometimes he is playing and sometimes can be very aggressive. One time when i play with him on bed, laying down didnt careful enough, he bites my eye, blood comes out. That time he is just playing else worst.

What kind of puppy? How big is he? Is he aggressive or is he playing?

[makenzie71]

Try the yelping thing that Zoe suggested...yelp as though the puppy would if he were hurt...be really loud. If you aren't met with posative results, accompany the yelp with a deliberate pinch or thump him on the nose. Try to return something similar to what he's giving you.

If posative reinforcement fails, don't be afraid to try physical punishment (not to be confused with "beating"). Sometimes a puppy or dog will benefit from a spanking the same way a child does. (I know opinions will vary...I'm looking for other forms of posative reinforcement to suggest)

[RedyreRottweilers]

1) go to training class

2) do a search on BITE INHIBITION and use those techniques for the dog

3) increase the dog's formal exercise time during the day

[brem]

be firm.

;)

[Brattina88]

If posative reinforcement fails, don't be afraid to try physical punishment (not to be confused with "beating"). Sometimes a puppy or dog will benefit from a spanking the same way a child does. (I know opinions will vary...I'm looking for other forms of posative reinforcement to suggest)
Have you heard the saying about spanking a child teaches it to hit? Well, its true in some cases, and the same goes for puppies. I dog or puppy will NOT benefit from a spanking. They are dogs, and they are not going to understand why you are hitting them! It may backfire on you and the dog may become defensive and bite more!

How much exercise is your dog getting? And how?

I think you need to increase exercise and appropriate play by... a lot.
Give him something that he can chew own. Raw bones are awesome for this. Encourage play with bones, ropes, balls, ect. When the puppy bites you for play get up and walk away, and substitute with something he CAN chew on.

I strongly suggest going to a puppy kindergarten or a basic training class so your dog can benefit from socialization and some manners.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Try the yelping thing that Zoe suggested...yelp as though the puppy would if he were hurt...be really loud. If you aren't met with posative results, accompany the yelp with a deliberate pinch or thump him on the nose. Try to return something similar to what he's giving you.

If posative reinforcement fails, don't be afraid to try physical punishment (not to be confused with "beating"). Sometimes a puppy or dog will benefit from a spanking the same way a child does. (I know opinions will vary...I'm looking for other forms of posative reinforcement to suggest)

How DARE you advise someone on a public forum to strike their dog, and physically abuse it by hitting it on the nose or pinching it!!!!

This is RIDICULOUS and TERRIBLE advise.

Hitting a dog will accomplish NOTHING except to make the dog head shy, and cause mistrust, and possibly cause BITING ISSUES in the future.

This is STUPID TERRIBLE ADVICE, and your post should be REMOVED.

:mad:

[makenzie71]

Have you heard the saying about spanking a child teaches it to hit? Well, its true in some cases, and the same goes for puppies. I dog or puppy will NOT benefit from a spanking. They are dogs, and they are not going to understand why you are hitting them! It may backfire on you and the dog may become defensive and bite more!

In some cases it's not a suitable method of punishment...in other cases, it is. What I'm suggesting is no more violent than the nips the pup's mother might give as form of control.

[b]How DARE you advise someone on a public forum to strike their dog, and physically abuse it by hitting it on the nose or pinching it!!!!

I think you're being a little overly dramatic. If you feel that a light spanking, a pinch or a light tap on the nose is "physical abuse" then, by all means, venture down different roads. What I suggest is obviously not bad advice, though, because none of my dogs are head shy, mistrusting, having biting issues or any other issues...the only dog I've owned to have any of the troubles you list was beaten by the previous owner.

[RedyreRottweilers]

In some cases it's not a suitable method of punishment...in other cases, it is. What I'm suggesting is no more violent than the nips the pup's mother might give as form of control.

Hitting, pinching, thunking, tapping, whatever you want to call it, is NOT ok, for dogs OR children. It teaches NOTHING, it's counterproductive, it's harmful to the relationship, and you run the risk of someone reading this topic, getting frustrated with their dog, and smashing the heck out of them because they read from someone on a BB that it's ok to SPANK, PINCH, THUNK or whatever their dog.

This is NOT training.

It is ABUSE, and it should NOT be stated by ANYONE that it's ok to HIT a dog.

PERIOD.



I think you're being a little overly dramatic. If you feel that a light spanking, a pinch or a light tap on the nose is "physical abuse" then, by all means, venture down different roads. What I suggest is obviously not bad advice, though, because none of my dogs are head shy, mistrusting, having biting issues or any other issues...the only dog I've owned to have any of the troubles you list was beaten by the previous owner.

It is bad advice.

Hitting dogs is not training. PINCHING dogs is not training.

It is abuse.

[makenzie71]

I'm sorry you disagree with me, but this is how I've always done things and I have wonderfully behaved dogs. I can respect your opinion, though, as everyone is successful in different ways.

You're more than welcome to pursue this in private if you'd like, as I feel you would benefit from clarification of my position, and I'm always interested in learning other methods.

[RedyreRottweilers]

I think if you want to clarify why you think it's ok to hit, intimidate, pinch, and "spank" a puppy to train it, you should do it right here so everyone else can have the benefit of it.

[RedyreRottweilers]

For the OP:

See these links for how to teach your puppy not to mouth....

http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/bite.txt

I'm pasting the first link in here in case someone does not feel like clicking.

The Bite Stops Here Dogs in Canada Annual, 1991
Puppies should be encouraged to play-bite – so you can teach them when to stop.
By Dr. Ian Dunbar

Puppies bite, and thank goodness they do. Puppy biting is a normal and natural puppy behavior. In fact, it is the pup that does not mouth and bite much as a youngster that augers ill for the future. Puppy play-biting is the means by which dogs learn to develop bite inhibition, which is absolutely essential later in life.
The combination of weak jaws with extremely sharp, needle-like teeth and the puppy penchant for biting results in numerous play-bites which, although painful, seldom cause serious harm. Thus, the developing pup receives ample necessary feedback regarding the force of its bites before it develops strong jaws – which could inflict considerable injury. The greater the pup’s opportunity to play-bite with people, other dogs and other animals, the better the dog’s bite inhibition as an adult. For puppies that do not grow up with the benefit of regular and frequent interaction with other dogs and other animals, the responsibility of teaching bite inhibition lies with the owner.
Certainly, puppy biting behavior most eventually be eliminated: we cannot have an adult dog playfully mauling family, friends and strangers in the manner of a young puppy. However, it is essential that puppy biting behaviour is gradually and progressively eliminated via a systematic four-step process. With some dogs, it is easy to teach the four phases in sequence. With others, the puppy biting may be so severe that the owners will need to embark on all four stages at once. However, it is essential that the pup first learn to inhibit the force of its bites before the biting behaviour is eliminated altogether.
Inhibiting the force of bites
No painful bites The first item on the agenda is to stop the puppy bruising people. It is not necessary to reprimand the pup and, certainly, physical punishments are contra-indicated, since they tend to make some pups more excited, and insidiously erode the puppy’s temperament and trust in the owner. But it is essential to let the pup know when it hurts. A simple "ouch!" is usually sufficient. The volume of the "ouch" should vary according to the dog’s mental make-up; a fairly soft "ouch" will suffice for sensitive critters, but a loud "OUCH!!!" may be necessary for a wild and woolly creature. During initial training, even shouting may make the pup more excited, as does physical confinement. An extremely effective technique with boisterous pups is to call the puppy a "jerk!" and leave the room and shut the door. Allow the pup time to reflect on the loss of its favourite human chew toy immediately following the hard nip, and then return to make up. It is important to indicate that you still love the pup – it is the painful bites which are objectionable. Instruct the pup to come and sit, and then resume playing. Ideally, the pup should have been taught not to hurt people well before it is three months old.
It is much better for the owner to leave the pup than to try to physically restrain and remove it to a confinement area at a time when it is already out of control. If one pup bites another too hard, the bitee yelps and playing is postponed while the injured party licks its wounds. The biter learns that hard bites curtail an otherwise enjoyable play session. Hence, the bite learns to bite more softly when the play session resumes.
No jaw pressure at all The second stage of training is to eliminate bite pressure entirely, even thought the bites no longer hurt. When the puppy is munching away, wait for a nibble that is harder than the rest and respond as if it really hurt: "Ouch, you worm! Gently! That hurt me you bully!" The dog begins to think "Good Lord! These humans are so mamby pamby I’ll have to be really careful when mouthing their delicate skins." And that’s precisely what we want the dog to think – so he’ll be extremely careful when playing with people. Ideally, the puppy should no longer be exerting any pressure when mouthing by the time it is four to five months old.
Inhibiting the incidence of mouthing
Always stop mouthing when requested. Once the puppy has been taught to gently mouth rather than bite, it is time to reduce the frequency of mouthing behaviour and teach the pup that mouthing is okay until requested to stop. Why? Because it is inconvenient to try to drink a cup of tea, or to answer the telephone, with 50 pounds of pup dangling from your wrist, that’s why.
It is better to first teach the "OFF!" command using a food lure (as demonstrated in the Sirius video*). The deal is this: "If you don’t touch this food treat for just two seconds after I softly say "Off", I will say "Take it" and you can have the treat." Once the pup has mastered this simple task, up the ante to three seconds of non-contact, and then five, eight, 12, 20 and so on. Count out the seconds and praise the dog with each second: "Good dog one, good dog two, good dog three…" and so forth. If the pup touches the treat before being told to take it, shout "Off!" and start the count from zero again. The pup quickly learns that it can not have the treat until it has not touched it for, say, eight seconds – the quickest way to get the treat is not to touch it for the first eight seconds. In addition, the regular handfeeding during this exercise helps preserve the pup’s soft mouth.
Once the pup understnads the "Off!" request, it may be used effectively when the puppy is mouthing. Say "Off!" and praise the pup and give it a treat when it lets go. Remember, the essence of this exercise is to practise stopping the dog from mouthing – each time the pup obediently ceases and desists, resume playing once more. Stop and start the session many times over. Also, since the puppy wants to mouth, the best reward for stopping mouthing is to allow it to mouth again. When you decide to stop the mouthing session altogether, heel the pup to the kitchen and give it an especially tasty treat.
If ever the pup refuses to release your hand when requested, shout "Off!", rapidly extricate your hand and storm out of the room mumbling, "Right. That’s done it, you jerk! You’ve ruined it! Finish! Over! No more!" and shut the door in the dog’s face. Give the pup a couple of minutes on its own and then go back to call the pup to come and sit and make up. But no more mouthing for at least a couple of hours.
In addition to using "Off!" during bite inhibition training, the request has many other useful applications: not to touch the cat, the Sunday roast on the table, the table, the baby’s soiled diapers, the baby, an aggressive dog, a fecal deposit of unknown denomination… Not only does this exercise teach the "Off!" request, but also to "Take it" on request.
Never start mouthing unless requested. By the time the pup is five months old, it must have a mouth as soft as a 14-year-old working Lab; it should never exert any pressure when mouthing, and the dog should immediately stop mouthing when requested to do so by any family member. Unsolicited mouthing is utterly inappropriate from an older adolescent or an adult dog. It would be absolutely unacceptable for a six-month-old dog to approach a child and commence mouthing her arm, no matter how gentle the mouthing or how friendly and playful the dog’s intentions. This is the sort of situation which gives parents the heebie-jeebies and frightens the living daylights out of the mouthee. At five months of age, at the very latest, the dog should be taught never to touch any person’s body – not even clothing – with its jaws unless specifically requested.
Whether or not the dog will ever be requested to mouth people depends on the individual owner. Owners that have the mental largesse of a toothpick quickly let play-mouthing get out of control, which is why many dog training texts strongly recommend not indulging in games such as play-fighting. However, it is essential to continue bite inhibition exercises, otherwise the dog’s bite will begin to drift and become harder as the dog grows older. For such people, I recommend that they regularly hand-feed the dog and clean its teeth – exercises that involve the human hand in the dog’s mouth. On the other hand, for owners who have a full complement of common sense, there is no better way to maintain the dog’s soft mouth than by play-fighting with the dog on a regular basis. However, to prevent the dog from getting out of control and to fully realize the many benefits of play-fighting, the owner must play by the rules and teach the dog to play by the rules. (Play-fighting rules are described in detail in our Preventing Aggression behaviour booklet.*)
CONTINUED...

[RedyreRottweilers]

Conclusion:


Play-fighting teaches the dog to mouth hands only (hands are extremely sensitive to pressure) and never clothing. Since shoelaces, trousers and hair have no neurons and cannot feel, the owner cannot provide the necessary feedback that the dog is once more beginning to mouth too hard. The game also teaches the dog that it must adhere to rules regarding its jaws, regardless of how worked up it may be. Basically, play-fighting teaches the owner to practice controlling the dog when it is excited. It is important to refine such control in a structured setting, before a real-life situation occurs.
In addition, play-fighting quickly becomes play-training. Starting the games with a training period, i.e., with the dog under control in a down-stay, produces utterly solid stays at a time when the dog is excited in vibrant anticipation of the game. Similarly, frequent stopping the game for short periods and integrating multiple training interludes (especially heel work and recalls) into the game motivates the dog to provide eager and speedy responses. Each time the owner stops the game, he or she may use the resumption of play as a reward for bona fide obedience. Everything’s fun!
Potential problems
Inhibiting incidence before force A common mistake is to punish the pup in an attempt to get it to stop biting altogether. At the best, the puppy no longer mouths those family members who can effectively punish the dog but, instead, the pup directs its mouthing sprees toward those family members who cannot control it, e.g., a child. To worsen matters, parents are often completely unaware of the child’s plight because the pup does not mouth adults. At worst, the puppy no longer mouths people at all. Hence, its education about the force of its bite stops right there. All is fine until someone accidentally shuts the car door on the dog’s tail, whereupon the dog bites and punctures the skin, because the dog had insufficient bite inhibition.
Puppies that don’t bite Shy dogs seldom socialize or play with other dogs or strangers. Hence, they do not play-bite and hence, they learn nothing about the power of their jaws. The classic case history is of a dog that never mouthed or bit as a pup and never bit anyone as an adult – that is, until an unfamiliar child tripped and fell on the dog. The first bite of the dog’s career left deep puncture wounds, because the dog had developed no bite inhibition. With shy puppies, socialization is of paramount importance, and time is of the essence. The puppy must quickly be socialized sufficiently, so that it commences playing (and hence, biting) before it is four-and-a-half months old.
If a puppy does not frequently mouth and bite and/or does not occasionally bite hard, it is an emergency. The puppy must learn its limits. And it can only learn its limits by exceeding them during development and receiving the appropriate feedbacks.

Ian Fraser Dunbar lives in California and has a doctorate in animal behaviour. He is author of the book Dog Behaviour and 15 Behaviour Booklets; he will be holding seminars in Canada in 1991.
*The Preventing Aggression behaviour booklet and the Sirius Puppy Training videotape by Dr. Dunbar are available from James & Kenneth Publishers – Canada. For more information, contact Judy Emmert, Flander’s Farm, R. R. 2, campbellville, Ontario. (416)659-3955.
Dogs in Canada - http://www.dogs-in-canada.com

[makenzie71]

Nevermind, since you're still interested in helping, I'm not interested in debating publicly.

[RedyreRottweilers]

dumb luck.

Punishing a dog for biting may stop it from biting you, but generally will not stop the dog from biting/mouthing others.

There is a way to teach bite inhibition.

It does not involve HITTING a dog.

Perhaps you might benefit from reading some of the works of Ian Dunbar, Shirley Chong, Karen Pryor, et al.

[makenzie71]

dumb luck.

With over 50 animals?:confused: This isn't fluke...propper training, punishment and mentallity trump all...not a simple practice of one.

I've read The Koehler Method of Dog Training and almost all of Shirly Chongs public works (displayed on her site: The Well Mannered Dog (http://www.shirleychong.com/))...all have proved beneficial and I've incorparated many of the practices into my own. I promote as much posative behavior as possible but there comes a point where a physical deterent is nothing but beneficial to the dog. I have two shining examples of my practices chewing on rawhide bones beside me right now.

[RedyreRottweilers]

There is no way on this earth you have had your hands on 50 dogs, much less "trained" them.

You would quote Koehler, wouldn't you?

I prefer to train my dogs without pain, fear, and intimidation whenever possible.

HITTING DOGS IS NOT TRAINING.

PINCHING DOGS IS NOT TRAINING.

No matter WHAT guise you might attempt to put it across as.

Each time you type on this forum you say something that is incorrect, bad advice, and which could be misconstrued and used in a harmful manner by someone who does not know better.

why don't you tell me your experience with training FIFTY dogs.

And if you've read shirley chong's site, you would know that she CERTAINLY does not advocate HITTING DOGS as a training method.

[makenzie71]

There is no way on this earth you have had your hands on 50 dogs, much less "trained" them.

I guess you would know?:confused:

HITTING DOGS IS NOT TRAINING.

PINCHING DOGS IS NOT TRAINING.

I've said that...what are you reading?

And if you've read shirley chong's site, you would know that she CERTAINLY does not advocate HITTING DOGS as a training method.

You'll find it exceedingly difficult to point out where I've stated she advocates hitting dogs for any reason. You'll also find it difficult to point out where I've stated that physical punishment is a form of "training".

What would you like to know about my experiences? It would be rather lengthy to compose a piece containing the circumstances and experiences with every dog I've dealt with.

I fully respect your opinion and your experiences and understand your point of view. I'm truely sorry you can not appreciate my opinion and that, with how brutal you must believe a little pinch is, you feel I'm lying about my success with my animals. You have that right.

Koehler...
The bases of the philosophy, simply stated, is that a dog acts on his God given right of choice. Mr. Koehler once explained that a dog’s learned behavior is an act of choice based on his own learning experience. And that when those choices are influenced by the expectation of reward, the behavior will most likely be repeated. And, that when those choices are influenced by the anticipation of punishment, they will most likely cease. This is Nature’s recipe for learning.
cited: http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/

[RedyreRottweilers]

I'm familiar with Koehler's 50 year old correction/punishment based training methods.

I've read his books several times.

You TOLD a poster here to hit their dog to stop mouthing.

You have admitted that you "cuff" your dogs to stop mouthing.

I'm done with you, but you should stop giving advice to people to abuse their dogs, and risk them getting bitten, on a public forum.

[makenzie71]

You TOLD a poster here to hit their dog to stop mouthing.

You have admitted that you "cuff" your dogs to stop mouthing.

I'm done with you, but you should stop giving advice to people to abuse their dogs, and risk them getting bitten, on a public forum.

You really need to stop twisting my words around. My first source of advice was non-physical. I suggested a physical punishment as a last resort, and as such I suggested a light pinch

I have no problem admitting that I've physically punished my dogs...I also have no problem bragging about how my dogs never submit to the same offensive behavior twice (well...it's difficult to punish a dog for farting...).

Also, this person is already being bitten...and injured...because of his dog's poor behavior. I don't think my advice is compramising his situation any. If the dog's not doing something dangerous in need of serious correction, this thread likely wouldn't have been started...

[RedyreRottweilers]

Try the yelping thing that Zoe suggested...yelp as though the puppy would if he were hurt...be really loud. If you aren't met with posative results, accompany the yelp with a deliberate pinch or thump him on the nose. Try to return something similar to what he's giving you.

If posative reinforcement fails, don't be afraid to try physical punishment (not to be confused with "beating"). Sometimes a puppy or dog will benefit from a spanking the same way a child does. (I know opinions will vary...I'm looking for other forms of posative reinforcement to suggest)

abcdefghijklmnopqustuvwxyz

[makenzie71]

Try the yelping thing that Zoe suggested...yelp as though the puppy would if he were hurt...be really loud. If you aren't met with posative results, accompany the yelp with a deliberate pinch or thump him on the nose. Try to return something similar to what he's giving you.

If posative reinforcement fails, don't be afraid to try physical punishment (not to be confused with "beating"). Sometimes a puppy or dog will benefit from a spanking the same way a child does. (I know opinions will vary...I'm looking for other forms of posative reinforcement to suggest)
abcdefghijklmnopqustuvwxyz

:rolleyes:

Not that I'm very aware of what your point with that was...

[Brattina88]

guys, please cut it out. Makenzie we're never going to agree with your "method of training" regardless of how many dogs you've touched, and the dogs you currently have that are chewing on rawhides at your feet (btw rawhides aren't that good for dogs...)
Red, I'm afraid your posts fall on blind eyes, because a person can't fix what they don't recognize is wrong.

Be the bigger person and ignore posts

To the OP -
I hope you've found something that's working for you. If you have any more questions or problems please don't hesitate to post :)

[moxiegrl]

I use positive reinforcement with Katie 99.9% of the time, but there are the occasional times when she get's REALLY rough when we're playing, bites, and makes contact with my face. Depending on if it was accidental, or she deliberately went for my face, she get's a light tap on the nose. I do not get out the belt and I am NOT mad, and it doesnt hurt her. Its more for the stun factor. She's like "wow, didnt like that".
There is a difference between being angry at your dog (which they sense), and correcting your dog by letting them know what they did wasn't ok. I do not believe any animal should be harmed in any way, but a little tap on the nose when she gets extremely rough is acceptable. When Katie plays with other dogs, and get's really rough, the dog will nip at her. It doesnt hurt her, but it teaches her what too much is.

[moxiegrl]

And by the way, Katie learned VERY quickly when play-fighting not to go for your face, she can be excited and hyper as ever, and if you put your face by her she gives you tons of kisses, which she is praised immensly for.