How long should you stay mad at your dog.

[neko12_48767]

How long should you stay mad at your dog because My dog ate some of my food on my plate, and I told him to leave it, and he took it. I'm not mad at him because he ate it. I am mad at him because he did not listen to me, and he knows he did wrong too.

[Zoom]

Pointedly ignore him for about 2 or 3 minutes. The punishment should fit the crime. When my dog snaps at me during bath time, I finish up and then ignore him for 15-30 minutes depending on how much trouble he was. He'll usually try everything he knows to get me love him again, so I let him go for a bit, then invite him up on the couch for a makeup cuddle.

[tessa_s212]

Instead of staying mad, I say, fix it!

Time for some training!

I would first teach him the "leave it" command. Once he knows that, start using even tastier things(like what is on your plate) to practice "leave it".

[gaddylovesdogs]

I usually ignore the dog for a few minutes or they get a timeout. But it does sound like you should work on the "leave it" command a little bit more. It might take a while, but it's worth it. Now, I can have food down at my dogs' level and tell them "leave it" and they'll all leave it alone, including my terrier mix, who is absolutely OBSESSED with food.

[Giny]

I think you should stay mad at him for the same amount of time that he would stay mad at you; which would be not at all. If he doesn't know the command leave it he will take the opportunity to grab whatever food is in front of him and you shouldn't blame him for not understanding what was expected of him. Dogs are opportunist and his reward of getting the food was alot greater then being scolded for doing so, he doesn't know he did wrong. I agree with tessa and teach him “leave it” plus make it so that the opportunity of getting food isn’t in his grasp.

[neko12_48767]

He know leave it That what make me mad is that I told him to leave it.

[gaddylovesdogs]

If he didn't obey it then he needs a little more work on it. When my dogs don't get a command right that we've been working on, I just have to keep on working at it until they fully understand it.

[filarotten]

I can never stay mad at my dogs very long. Hubby, he gets the silent treatment, much,much longer. hehehe
It sounds like you need some work on the leave it subject. I would try working with him instead of being mad.

[Doberluv]

I think you should stay mad at him for the same amount of time that he would stay mad at you; which would be not at all. If he doesn't know the command leave it he will take the opportunity to grab whatever food is in front of him and you shouldn't blame him for not understanding what was expected of him. Dogs are opportunist and his reward of getting the food was alot greater then being scolded for doing so, he doesn't know he did wrong. I agree with tessa and teach him “leave it” plus make it so that the opportunity of getting food isn’t in his grasp.

Good post!

He know leave it That what make me mad is that I told him to leave it.

He doesn't know it well enough......obviously. You'll have to practice and always make "leaving it" better than not leaving it....more rewarding. Also, prevent him from succeeding at taking food off your plate. Practice a nice, long down/stay or seperate him. Make sure he doesn't have repeats of being successful at being rewarded by stealing your food. Remove the payoff for unwanted behaviors. Give a payoff (a really good payoff) for wanted behaviors.....bottom line.

[RedyreRottweilers]

If I were you I would work on target training with the dog. Put down a towel or mat when it's dinner time, at a reasonable distance away from the table.

Put the dog on the target, and say "Bed time!". Each time the dog gets up off the target, put him back and say "Bed time!" with a smile and a pat. Be consistent. Be firm. Be fair. Be positive. Put the puppy back each time. The times will grow less and less over a week or so. You should be up to the puppy staying on the target for 20 minutes by the end of a week or 10 days if you are consistent, firm, fair, and positive.

Meantime, you can also work on the leave it command.

Key points of teaching target training are:

Be consistent. Put the dog back EACH time he moves.

Be firm. No begging or asking or being sorry for putting the dog back.

Be fair. Correct what needs correcting, and let mistakes happen. No saying "ah ah" etc, if the dog begins to move. If he moves, put him back. Each time he makes a mistake, and you put him back, he is learning.

Be positive. Smile, praise, use food rewards for excellent behavior. Stand up tall and present a strong positive leader figure for your dog. Being angry with the dog for making mistakes is not a part of being a strong positive leader figure.

Your dog does NOT understand the "leave it" command, or he would not have taken food from your plate over your objections. Nor does your dog have a high level of respect for you, for the same reason.

Here is another article that might be helpful in your becoming the positive assertive leader figure for your puppy....

http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm

If you are not in training class, I would recommend that also. :D

[Fuzz Puppy]

I think you should work on "leave it", but it may be hard for your dog. have you concidered trading him for the food by giving him something he wants in order to get your food back. That way your dog gets what he wants aannd you get what you want. You can work on "leave it" at the same time as you do this. Good luck!

[gaddylovesdogs]

This is how I taught my dogs...

Put the dog on a regular collar and leash. Take a handful of kibble (or treats or whatever) and scatter it on the ground. Take your dog, on loose leash, towards the area that has the food on the ground. When your dog goes for the food, pull him back to you with the leash and say "Leave it!" I also think that when teaching this you have treats to to reward the dog for leaving the food on the ground alone. Most dogs looove food, so learning the "Leave it" command without using treats as a reward may not work well - they may figure, "You want me to leave food alone, but all I get is a 'good dog'?" so when teaching "Leave it" I like to reward with treats so they realize "leaving food alone when my owner says to gets me food".

[sparks19]

See that whole put him in a down stay and keep doing it until he understands didn't really work for Teddy and I. Teddy figured out quite quickly that if he lays down he gets a treat BUT after that there isn't a steady supply of treats coming. So he knows that everytime he gets up I will put him back down and give him a treat. So then he would start getting up on purpose to get the reward when i put him back down. I just started to ignore him whenever he would come around my food and don't feed him from my plate. I don't give him the opportunity to take food off my plate. However, he does understand "leave it" I started that using HIS food and water. When I would put it down i would put him in a sit stay and if he moved while I was putting the food down we started all over again and he only got the reward if he stayed until i gave him the release and it has worked wonderful with him. I can now place anything and inch from his nose and tell him to stay and he will not touch it

[DanL]

What you need to do for Teddy is retrain him on his stay- when he goes into his down/stay, don't treat him right away. Make him wait longer. Vary the times. Sometimes treat right away, sometimes wait. He'll get it! I do the same with Gunnar but we use his ball or toy. I'll down him and throw the toy. He can't move until I say go. Sometimes I let him go after a few seconds, other times I'll wait a couple minutes. Either way, his focus is on me and he gets his reward by going to chase the toy.

[neko12_48767]

Thank you for all your help

[CanadianK9]

no lnger than a few minutes, a dogs mind moves on quick.

[sparks19]

What you need to do for Teddy is retrain him on his stay- when he goes into his down/stay, don't treat him right away. Make him wait longer. Vary the times. Sometimes treat right away, sometimes wait. He'll get it! I do the same with Gunnar but we use his ball or toy. I'll down him and throw the toy. He can't move until I say go. Sometimes I let him go after a few seconds, other times I'll wait a couple minutes. Either way, his focus is on me and he gets his reward by going to chase the toy.


yeah we tried that but he loses interest quickly HAHAHA Not to mention that he isn't stupid and knows what is on our plates is much better than those treats we give him haha. Plus he knows that he won't get another treat until he has to be put back in his place whether its 5 seconds or 5 minutes. Ignoring him totally has been the key. It just seems the more i pay attention to him and put him in a stay its like telling him good boy for getting up and bugging me now go lay down to get your treat. If he gets nothing out of it at all he just loses interest and goes away. Now he doesn't beg me for food at all because he knows he won't get it

[Doberluv]

If your dog is getting up, it means he's not ready to stay for that long. So, you want to make him succeed at staying. Start out with very very short stays, no longer than you think he can do it...even if it's for 2 seconds and give him a release word, which means he's not to get up till he hears "OK" or whatever your release word is and then....reward him. If he gets up before he hears the release word, don't reward or say anything....just replace him into the sit stay.

Keep the praise low key so he doesn't get excited. Walk him around in a circle to indicate a new exercise. Do the sit/stay again and do what you did and only increase the length of time by a second. Don't rush him. If he breaks the stay, you've gone too far too soon. When he's in a sit/stay, while he's still not too good at it, stand near him. Don't try to go far away from him yet. The length of the stay and the distance you stand from him need to be increased very gradually...not going further until he succeeds at the previous stage. He'll get it. Take your time.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Doberluv, I actually have the opposite opinion.

In the VERY beginning, while still on leash, dogs should be prevented from moving. However, once I can move away from the dog to the end of the leash and the dog will stay, even if briefly, I never worry if they move.

If they move and get put back, they are learning. This is why we proof stays with distractions. The fact that the dog moved only means he needs a better understanding of the exercise.

What you may be trying to communicate is that dogs, once distracted and put back a few times ( I would say 2 distractions to get the dog to move, and put him back) and then you should slightly minimize the distraction so that the dog can be successful. Then release, lots of praise, woo hoo, great dog.

I teach the stay in the beginning on leash of course. I start early, as soon as the puppy has a reliable sit. I sit the puppy in heel position. I pull the leash up snug, but not tight, straight up above the puppy's head. Then (and this takes practice) I switch hands to hold the leash with my right hand. This is because the STAY signal needs to be given with the left hand. (The reason for this has to do with Utility exercises, the moving stand, etc. where the stand/stay signal needs to be done with the left hand and not the right, so I start out this way). The STAY signal is as follows: Left hand and arm goes straight out from your side in front of you with your hand flat with fingers together, and then comes down briskly to right in front of the dog's nose as you say "STAY.".

Holding snug tension on the leash to keep the puppy from moving, pivot so you are standing toe to toe with the puppy. Smile. Encourage eye contact. Count to 3. Pivot back to heel position, release and praise. I do not move from toe to toe position with the puppy until I can do this with no leash tension and the puppy is reliably remaining still.

Then I work my way out to the end of the leash. During this time I am PREVENTING movement with the leash. If the puppy moves, I will put it back, and altho I do NOT repeat the stay command, I will give a POSITION reminder when I put the pup back.....GOOOOD sit.

Once the puppy is reliably staying with me at the end of a 6 foot lead (I consider puppies staying for 30 seconds without needing to be replaced often reliable) then I start mild distractions and putting the dog back.

By the time I take a dog to the ring, it can NOT be distracted from a stay position. Your stay exercise is only as strong as your proofing. A dog who is not proofed on a regular basis to the point of making a mistake is not learning anything as far as I'm concerned.

My last competition dog routinely did down stays on a busy street while I went inside stores to shop. A good stay is a marvelous thing for a dog to know.

:D

[Doberluv]

I don't see how that's much different, other than preventing the moving...which is fine to do if you want to control that with the leash. I used a clicker at first with my Dobe and made him figure out that he had to stay to get the very much wanted piece of meat, (lol)instead of making him with a leash where he had no choice. What my main point was, I guess is that I just don't expect the dog to stay for 5 minutes when he's first learning. What I'm saying is to try and be able to reward him for a successful stay by making it very short duration and gradually increasing the length of time....shape the behavior, basically.

That's how I started with my pups and my Dobe (my most recent project. lol) now down/stays while I hide behind a tree in my pasture 200 feet away from him for as long as I want him to...until I release him, usually we practice for 5 or 10 minutes, but he'll stay longer. He has been proofed with medium distractions....dogs outside the fence walking by, cars going by etc. He is though, probably 100ft or more from the fence.

You're right. A good, reliable stay is so nice and really, probably more valuable or just as....as a good recall.

I live in a very small town, which really isn't even a town. LOL. There's a little store 1/2 mile away on a "highway" which is technically a highway, but more like a country road. It dead ends about 10 miles to the north, so you can imagine there's not much traffic. Anyhow, I take Lyric down for walks sometimes to the little store and he does a nice down stay right by the door (inside or outside the store) and if outside, I'll loop the excess part of his leash around something just in case. I can go in for a few things at the store, chat with someone, out of sight from him and he does a nice down stay. We've practiced that though for quite some time. LOL. There are people getting gas about 10 -15ft. away from him and people walking right past him to go through the doors. Sometimes they bend down and give him a pat. He's a good boy, well socialized, so I don't worry one bit with him around people. He's my most obedient dog....the one I've worked with the most. I love my Lyric boy. :)

[tessa_s212]

From my experience, Doberluv's trainign methods work better and ultimately produce a dog that is happier to complete the stay excersize. My cocker was trained with corrections, and has a very consistant stay, but it could be ten times better. I have switched training methods, and have never been better for it.

My motto, why punish when you can reward?

[RedyreRottweilers]

Tessa, is your post directed at me?

Can you tell me where you found training with corrections noted in my post, if so?

Thank you.

[tessa_s212]

Once the puppy is reliably staying with me at the end of a 6 foot lead (I consider puppies staying for 30 seconds without needing to be replaced often reliable) then I start mild distractions and putting the dog back.



^^^

I don't believe you are in any way being abusive with the corrections you train with, but I don't like encouraging beginners to correct their dogs. Frustration leads to anger, and anger leads to abuse.:( It is best, IMO, to always recommend a lot of Positive Reinforcement to beginner trainers.

[Doberluv]

I don't see anything there which looks like much of a correction. Redyres methods look to be very much in line with the motivation and reward process. I personally don't see anything wrong with correcting a dog or showing him what you want. Corrections are bringing the dog around to presenting wanted behavior. They need not cause dejection, fear, distrust. I think too, that we sometimes over the Internet, interpret words like corrections differently. Angelique pointed something out to me. Some of what we call corrections may be simply communicating to the dog. That was a light bulb moment for me because I was wondering about my own interactions with my dogs. I tell them things in no uncertain terms. I'm firm, quite bossy but I also, when training skills rely on motivation and reward and not collar yanks, harsh words etc....it's all fun and games when training obedience etc. But certain behaviors around the house, I will let them know they need to quit. I'll incorporate things like sidling up to them, herding them over, speaking firmly, "Hey"...."eh-eh" while distracting them and then letting them know when they're on the right track. I don't feel like I'm over dominating them, but I am keeping them inside the boundaries I've placed and making it worthwhile to them to go on the path of the straight and narrow. LOL.

I see in Redyre's ways a definite emphasis on the wanted behaviors. Holding the dog back with the leash to make him stay is one way to do it...to show the dog. I like to, whenever possible, leave a bit of a choice for the dog, as opposed to holding him in place so that he has to think more...."why didn't I get a treat? What is it she wants? Oh....I see....when I stay, even for 2 seconds, I'm getting a treat." Then I go from there....3 seconds, 5 seconds. Click/ treat. "Why is the door closing in my face? Hmmmmmmm. Oh, now I get it." I like to see those wheels turning while the dog is thinking and how he comes on it. If I forced him to stay back while I opened the door, he would learn, but he's not using his own head as much. I like to develop that in my dog.

I see Redyres methods as sensible, patient, gentle and rewarding as well.

[RedyreRottweilers]

A distraction is not a correction.

A distraction is something like a person walking by, a toy rolling by, another dog walking by, etc, that causes the dog to move. Similar distractions to those present in everyday life that dogs will be exposed to on a stay.

If dogs do not learn, and EARLY in the learning process, to build their focus in ignoring distractions, you will never have a strong stay.

I do not view putting a dog back into position as a correction, altho some might.

I also do not view holding a puppy in place with the leash in the very beginning stages of the stay exercise as a correction.

I do not use correction when puppies or dogs are learning an exercise.

DISTRACTION should not be confused with CORRECTION.

[Doberluv]

LOL Redyre. While I was editing my post, adding some things, you posted, so I don't know if you saw what I wrote. I hate that when I go to edit and someone has posted meanwhile. LOL.

[Doberluv]

I do not view putting a dog back into position as a correction, altho some might.

Heavens. I don't know how else you'd be able to show the dog what you meant. That's what I do. You don't know how many times I jumped up from my dinner table with guests sitting there (how rude) to replace my dogs in their down/stay which was about 8 or 10 feet away on their rug. I mean for the whole dinner time. And I'd get up and give them a tiny treat, telling them to continue to stay. When the dinner is over and I'm washing dishes, they get released and get to come over by the sink and get some handouts. I was jumping up and down like a jack rabbit. Now, they stay put for the entire meal time and I don't have to do anything but save a few bites for them for afterwards.

[tessa_s212]

Okay, okay. Sorry.

[Doberluv]

Hey, it's hard to know what people mean sometimes over the cotton pickin Internet. Sometimes, don't you wish you could be face to face with a leash in your hands so you could show people what you mean? I sure do. Words are so confusing sometimes.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Yeah, you can't see me grinning when I'm typing.

:D:D:D

[Doberluv]

I just realized how contradictory my last post was, describing the dinner hour down stay as opposed to the gradual increments of time they had to stay. LOL. A whole 1/2 hour.:eek: Well, the thing is, they understood a stay, and had been able to get it pretty long, but dinner time...now that's another story....mmmm, that pork roast and dumplings, how the aroma wafted through the whole house. That was a little too much to bear. So, we just had to skip from a pretty good stay to a really good stay all at once so I could impress my guests next time I had people over for dinner. LOL.