Dog Bite...

[Bowowee]

JUST LOOK AT THIS SITE MAY BE YOUR FAVORITE BREED HAS ALSO A DARK STORY THAT YOU EVEN DON'T KNOW!!!!

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/AllDogsBite.htm

[CanadianK9]

Lmao, they say Ontario canada is the most unfriendly place for your pet. I laugh cause they dont really enforce the laws down here to well, in fact they should really work on enforcing them more . And to tell you the truth, The only reason you would have your animal taken away here is if you had a realllly big situation and even then most of the time you would probobly be able to keep your dog.

Honestly if you are a responsable owner you have nothing to fear, If you plan on going somewhere and automaticly assume your dog is going to be confiscated, maybe you should reconsider your ownership as you are not fit to have a dog

[Amstaffer]

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/September2005/bullterrier092205.pdf

I followed your link and read this story....sounds like the Officer over reacted.
11 year Bull terrier? Sounds fishy

[Boxer*Mom]

I can't open any of the stories without it asking me to save it in my computer.:confused:

[Renee750il]

Just goes to show that it's not a "breed" thing at all :rolleyes:

[bubbatd]

Definitely breeders or owners !

[Zoom]

Or in the case of the Aussie attacking police officers, a dog doing exactly what it's supposed to do--defend it's home. Except this time the intruders were wearing a badge.

[rottiegirl]

I followed your link and read this story....sounds like the Officer over reacted.
11 year Bull terrier? Sounds fishy
How is it fishy? When I get out of the police academy and a dog is charging me, I will not hesitate to shoot him in the head! self defence! What do you expect when a dog is charging someone?

[rottiegirl]

JUST LOOK AT THIS SITE MAY BE YOUR FAVORITE BREED HAS ALSO A DARK STORY THAT YOU EVEN DON'T KNOW!!!!

Yeah, but what breed causes the most FATALITIES? Of course there are going to be cases of dog attacks from many breeds, but the problem is when a dog kills someone. Wolf hybrids top the list with the pit and rottie fallowing.

[Saje]

Yeah, but what breed causes the most FATALITIES? Of course there are going to be cases of dog attacks from many breeds, but the problem is when a dog kills someone. Wolf hybrids top the list with the pit and rottie fallowing.

evidence please

[rottiegirl]

evidence please
lol ok saje, here it is... http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAttacks/dogbreeds.pdf I should use pit bull type, instead of "pit bull". Pit bull types include any pit bull mix, and mastiffs that are mistaken for a pit bull. Studies have shown that pit bull types are at the top of the list, but you have to take into consideration that the findings can be skewed, but none the less they still account for the most deaths. Rotties come in second. The reason why I am bringing up that pit bull types and rotties are a at the top of the list is because people seem to be trying to get the spot light off of these two breeds/types. People need to be aware and learn the truth about the fatalities, otherwise, this problem will not go away. People need to become educated on dog fatalities and how to prevent them. posts should be made about how to prevent an attack intead of trying to get the attention off pits, and I admit pit attacks are biased.

[Zoom]

Lesson the first if you think a dog attack is headed your way: Do not turn your back, do not start screaming and do not start running. Sudden movements are also bad. This will only heighten the already geared-up prey drive.

[bubbatd]

Zoom...am I right... I read once that if you are attacked to shove whatever they have hold of towards them and not pull away.. then try to poke them in the eye ??

[pitbulliest]

key word everyone "anything mistaken as a pitbull"..which is the case about 70 - 90 % of the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

here in Canada...pitbulls account for less than 5% of dog bites..with GSD topping the list..why aren't GSDs banned? Not that they should be..but honestly folks..take a hint here....the media is blinding everyone dry!

[Renee750il]

Or in the case of the Aussie attacking police officers, a dog doing exactly what it's supposed to do--defend it's home. Except this time the intruders were wearing a badge.

True, Grammy . . . and dogs have only marginally more respect for most who are totin' a badge than I do ;)

[AmberwayGSD]

key word everyone "anything mistaken as a pitbull"..which is the case about 70 - 90 % of the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

here in Canada...pitbulls account for less than 5% of dog bites..with GSD topping the list..why aren't GSDs banned? Not that they should be..but honestly folks..take a hint here....the media is blinding everyone dry!
Ontario did try to ban GSDs but the RCMP and Police services use them so fought tooth and nail to keep it from happening.If they ever do get banned I will move.Cocker Spaniels are higher on the bite list than GSDs are,even Goldens are on it.If people left the breeding to responsible breeders instead of saying I have a bitch you have a stud lets make puppies.These breeds would be better off than they are but people just dont think before breeding fefe to the dog down the street.

[Ash47]

key word everyone "anything mistaken as a pitbull"..which is the case about 70 - 90 % of the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

here in Canada...pitbulls account for less than 5% of dog bites..with GSD topping the list..why aren't GSDs banned? Not that they should be..but honestly folks..take a hint here....the media is blinding everyone dry!
Thank you!! Some people just can't seem to see that.

[rottiegirl]

key word everyone "anything mistaken as a pitbull"..which is the case about 70 - 90 % of the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

here in Canada...pitbulls account for less than 5% of dog bites..with GSD topping the list..why aren't GSDs banned? Not that they should be..but honestly folks..take a hint here....the media is blinding everyone dry!
Where did you get that stat from? Just curious.

[Julie]

True, Grammy . . . and dogs have only marginally more respect for most who are totin' a badge than I do ;)

Did you respect the lawyers you worked for?
They are far more corrupt than the bottom of the pole officers that risk their lives to keep the shitheads in line. This is not all about government this is about everyday men and women that go into dangerous situations for a less than adequate pay. They go and do the dangerous things most people would run from.

Lots of negativity toward officers until someone needs them. Then people act like they are their best friend. Have seen it many times.

Again, I will say, I just hope my husband gets to come home to his family this night and everynight.

God Bless the patrol man/woman and their working dogs.

[Zoom]

Zoom...am I right... I read once that if you are attacked to shove whatever they have hold of towards them and not pull away.. then try to poke them in the eye ??

The first part usually works for me even when I'm trying to get a dog who is playing too rough to let go of my hand/arm/Kong. Pulling away will only increase the danger done to whatever body part they have ahold of. Granted, the violent prey drive isn't in gear, but if they don't get it from the first couple of movements, then I'll take my other hand and push on the back of their head while pushing my arm further into their mouth and hold it a second past what they want to let go. Then I'll release them and give all sorts of petting and praising for letting go, and they'll wag their tail and go scamper off.

The second part...some dogs maybe, but it didn't even phase that Bullmastiff, and I really, really needed it to.

[filarotten]

I looked at the list and didn't see one rottie attack. Saw the mastiffs but most were bull or not listed as what type of mastiff, so were they really mastiffs? There was a shitz-mix. Maybe Maggie is the one I should be worried about, she can be pretty testy.lol Not my two that are known for being extremely protective of their family. Dog bites are extremely sad, and horrible when it is a fatality. I know some attacks are not provoked but I often wonder how many really were. I met one of the guys that had one of Roxies brothers He ended up shooting the rottie because it attacked his nephew and would not let go. However, he told me his nephew teased this dog constantly. One day the kid was throwing rocks at the dog and got a little to close and the dog seized the opportunity and took revenge. Now was the dog really at fault? Unfortunately the dog died because of human provocation. That guy told me it was one of the worse things he ever had to do. He loved that dog so much but he couldn't let his nephew die. I wonder how many of these stories are missing the complete truth. I find it hard to believe that any of my dogs thru the years would have ever attacked or tried to kill anyone unless human provocation was the cause. Be it by protection or something else. I pray I never have to go thru that, but I don't believe it is in most dogs nature to just attack a passerby. Yes they may bark, but to jump over a fence and intentionally maul, I have to question it. Just my opinion. the sad thing is where are all of the good stories about dogs? There are many more positive stories than negatives, there just not focused on. And if you look at statistics, per the billions of people on this earth there are actually very few bites per year. The media and idiots want hype. They live for it.

[keyodie]

Ok sorry, I didn't read the whole thread so this post may be very random...
All breeds have a potential to be violent. It's not all about the breed, and also depends on how the pup was brought up and on the indivisual itself. That's why I think banning rotties and pits is wrong...

[pitbulliest]

Where did you get that stat from? Just curious.


•Rottweilers (16)
•Cocker Spaniels (16)
•Golden Retrievers (15)

The CHIRP study of 385 serious dog bite incidents found that 50 breeds and 33 cross-breeds of were involved in serious bites.
• The “pit bull” group accounted for less than 5% of all serious bites.
• Source: http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/chirpp-schirpt/11jul97/iss11d_e.html

http://www.brok.ca/pdf/PressPack.pdf

[gaddylovesdogs]

Miniature Pincher:
A resident of the 100 block of E. Willow Road was issued a municipal citation of $103.50 for having a dog at large Nov. 3 after a miniature Doberman pinscher escaped from a fenced back yard. An officer who tried to grab the dog's collar was bitten.

These people don't even know their breeds, they call a min pin a mini doberman. :rolleyes: And then there's the "Golden Lab".

I just finished reading about the great dane and "golden lab". Neither told HOW or WHY there was an attack. For all we know the victims were teasing or hurting the dogs.

[SummerRiot]

Ontario did try to ban GSDs but the RCMP and Police services use them so fought tooth and nail to keep it from happening.If they ever do get banned I will move.Cocker Spaniels are higher on the bite list than GSDs are,even Goldens are on it.If people left the breeding to responsible breeders instead of saying I have a bitch you have a stud lets make puppies.These breeds would be better off than they are but people just dont think before breeding fefe to the dog down the street.

I second this one :) If GSDs were banned, I'm outta here lol Because I'm sure if the GSDs were to be banned.. the Belgian Tervuren would be banned as well since they are VERY OFTEN mistaken for GSDs.. or GSD crosses..

its all in how the owner is training their dog, NOT the dog itself. although, you do get the occational wing nuts, same with people. you can give them the best of everything, treat them correctly, train then correctly and they still go off on a whim.. lol thats why we have psych wards here..

With the police dogs you have to be EXTRA causious. Especially the retired ones, they still know their stuff and aren't affraid to use it. I was teeter tottering on having Riot put into the "protection schzthund" because of the fact that they CAN mistaken a command and go at something.
Because I'm planning on being in the k9 unit at one point. I have the utmost respect for these handlers and their dogs :)

Edited to mention that I didn't see a Belgian Teruvren on that list once.. although there were two police k9s that did not disclose the breed.

[bubbatd]

None of my many goldens over 60 years has ever even thought of biting.

[rottiegirl]

The breeds who attack the most is going to be different in every city.

[Bowowee]

My first and only dog bite came from a mongrel when I was 8 years old. It bit me on the hands, my legs, and back. It was the worst day of my life, stitches and injections all over. That dog is no pitbull, wolf, or rottie mix. It was small but very, very vicious. That incident made me Cynophobic for the next 19 years until I got my first pitbull. Dogs whatever breed have this tendency to become vicious if they are abused, not properly socialized or trained.

[rottiegirl]

I have been bitten by a chihuahua mix and a GSD/lab mix. Both of which were loose.

[PFC1]

I read the link to the alleged BMD attack. I have to say that I seriously doubt that those dogs were BMDs. I can't tell you how many times I have run into people at the park that claim that they adopted a BMD mix. When I look at them, they look absolutely nothing like a BMD. I think that the shelters sometimes pass dogs off that have anything that has markings that resemble a rottie or dobbie as a BMD just to find them a home. I have seen one or two that I actually thought were BMD mixes, which pisses me off to no end, but these are still quite rare-- more rare than actually seeing full blooded BMDs. Not that I think it is impossible for an individual BMD to misbehave, but I am VERY skeptical.

[bubbatd]

I've been bitten by a cocker, toy manchester and Boston Terrier. I've been snapped at by almost every small breed through the years. BTW.. I was snapped at once by a dog who was injured and by the side of a road. Since then, I carry a long strip of clothe to muzzle a dog should the occasion arise again. Cross it over the muzzle and then tie behind the head. Luckily, I've never had to use it.

[Renee750il]

I've been bitten twice, I think . . . once by a very spoiled, ill natured Peke and once by a very spoiled, ill natured Pom . . . :rolleyes:

[tessa_s212]

I've been bitten by my own dog/food agressive cocker spaniel several times, a mastiff two times, and a basenji/terrier mix several times.

[Ash47]

I have been bitten by a couple of Doxies, one spoiled overweight Peke, an older Poodle I was grooming, a Border Collie that was frightened by men (my fiance walked in), and one blind, decrepit 17 year old Chihuahua.

[oriondw]

Just to join a bandwagon:

I've been bitting a few times. The one's i remember the most:

1. Doberman bit me when i was braeking up a dog fight
2. Malamute bit me when i was breaking up a dog fight

Few others small things here and there.

1. dobe put a nice 2 inch scar in my arm.
2. mal put a nice 1" scar into my left hand.

[Julie]

Rocket's trainer had his finger bitten off by a shepherd. It's completely gone.

[Ash47]

That's terrible Julie!

[Julie]

That's terrible Julie!
Yea, I saw it. He also showed me the scars on his legs from other bites.
He didn't tell me how they happened.

[Amstaffer]

When I get out of the police academy and a dog is charging me, I will not hesitate to shoot him in the head! self defence! What do you expect when a dog is charging someone?

Well...I hope you dept. trains you better than that. You are not to use deadly force unless you fear for your life or the life of others.

I have been charged by several dogs in my life while walking my dogs and only twice have I even need to kick the dogs. Very very very few dogs actually have the guts to attack a full grown adult. The two times I kicked the dogs I didn't hurt them badly and the ran away. (I had to kick them to keep them from attack my dogs).

As a Police officer you have Pepper Spray (very effective), your hands and feet, a baton....all these are more than able to stop a dog without killing it. Now if you are charge by several large dogs and you are in real fear for your life...then pull out the gun but don't be in a hurry to end a life :(

[oriondw]

Well...I hope you dept. trains you better than that. You are not to use deadly force unless you fear for your life or the life of others.

I have been charged by several dogs in my life while walking my dogs and only twice have I even need to kick the dogs. Very very very few dogs actually have the guts to attack a full grown adult. The two times I kicked the dogs I didn't hurt them badly and the ran away. (I had to kick them to keep them from attack my dogs).

As a Police officer you have Pepper Spray (very effective), your hands and feet, a baton....all these are more than able to stop a dog without killing it. Now if you are charge by several large dogs and you are in real fear for your life...then pull out the gun but don't be in a hurry to end a life :(

Yeah I agree.

Killing a dog should be as a last possible resort when you cant possibly do anything else.

Shooting at every charging dog is just stupid.

[BigDog2191]

Agreed.

I've been bit by:

1) American Eskimo Dog
2) German shepherd mix

[rottiegirl]

Well...I hope you dept. trains you better than that. You are not to use deadly force unless you fear for your life or the life of others.

I am a small girl and a big dog could very well take my life. the academy teaches you that you need to protect your life. Human life is more important than a dogs life. the dog would be put to sleep for attacking a person anyhow.

[Amstaffer]

Dog bit confessions...........

Two extremes

Chihuahua when I was about 10

Great Dane when I was about 14 (still have the scar on my back)

[Amstaffer]

I am a small girl and a big dog could very well take my life. the academy teaches you that you need to protect your life. Human life is more important than a dogs life. the dog would be put to sleep for attacking a person anyhow.

Just because a dog is charging you doesn't even mean its going to attack. My dog Sal "Charges" every new person he mets and he has no clue what aggession is. I sure hope your police dept. is teaching you about the lethal force protocol. Your force should follow steps, using only the force you need.

[Julie]

Well I for one am not going to let a dog charge me, not knowing if it will attack or run off. If a dog is "charging" that is enough for me to take action.
Whether pepper spray, or lethal action.

I would rather a dog be stopped in its tracks, than to risk harm to a human being, whether me or someone else.

It all comes back to the owner of the dog. If it were not running at large, NONE of this could ever happen.

If dog owners would take responsiblity for their dogs this would not even be an issue.

[Amstaffer]

Well I for one am not going to let a dog charge me, not knowing if it will attack or run off. If a dog is "charging" that is enough for me to take action.
Whether pepper spray, or lethal action.

.

Please try the pepper spray first it has been used to stop bear attacks....and I agreed it is the owners fault but the dog pays the price.

[amymarley]

First off... any good trainer will tell you that any thing with teeth can bite. I agree to having spray on your person. I carry "Muzzle" a pepper type spray to ward off dogs... I have a dog that is blind in one eye and has epilepsy...he has a great heart but can not defend himself. I have been "challanged" by 3 dogs while I was walking him ( at different times) before I bought the spray. Luckily, I was able to get the dogs away from my buddy. But I now carry spray whenever I do any dog sitting or walking. I don't have the stats on what breeds do what and when.... they are superficial to me to a point. There are too many factors to weigh in.... the owner, the dog, the breeding, the enviornment...etc... but we all know the ones who make the news. That is the bottom line... Sorry, but wolf breeds are not on the top.

[rottiegirl]

Just because a dog is charging you doesn't even mean its going to attack. My dog Sal "Charges" every new person he mets and he has no clue what aggession is. I sure hope your police dept. is teaching you about the lethal force protocol. Your force should follow steps, using only the force you need.
it is very true that some dogs charge without attacking. I am just saying that when something very fasts happends and you dont have much time to think, you are going to pull your gun out to protect yourself. if the dog was a distance away then I would pull my pepper spray out.

[Bowowee]

I doubt a pepper spray could do anything to a charging dog.:D

[rottiegirl]

I doubt a pepper spray could do anything to a charging dog.Probably not, but it might slow him down a bit.

[malabui]

o.O I just thank god that very few police carry guns around here. Hearing about the American Police force makes me really not ever want to go over there. It seems alot less safe than Turkey...

Personally I think that all dogs that aren't purposly being used for breeding by proffesionals should really be neutered so you don't get 'accidents' and those who think puppies would be a cute idea and have no idea what after they have arrived to do with them. (also a test would be good thing for people to do before they can have a dog. I mean at least then more people will actully feed and look after it proberly)

I personally have never been attacked by any dog. I do get 'charged' at by a couple of dogs I know, and that is only cos they are soo over excited at seeing me (I dog walked them for 4 weeks), besides, I doubt any owner would be pleased if I peppered sprayed a dog that only cam over to say hello. Dogs need to have a chance to meet other dogs and get friends like us.

[Julie]

o.O I just thank god that very few police carry guns around here. Hearing about the American Police force makes me really not ever want to go over there. It seems alot less safe than Turkey...

Personally I think that all dogs that aren't purposly being used for breeding by proffesionals should really be neutered so you don't get 'accidents' and those who think puppies would be a cute idea and have no idea what after they have arrived to do with them. (also a test would be good thing for people to do before they can have a dog. I mean at least then more people will actully feed and look after it proberly)

I personally have never been attacked by any dog. I do get 'charged' at by a couple of dogs I know, and that is only cos they are soo over excited at seeing me (I dog walked them for 4 weeks), besides, I doubt any owner would be pleased if I peppered sprayed a dog that only cam over to say hello. Dogs need to have a chance to meet other dogs and get friends like us.

Thats because the media only hypes up questionable things. You will probably never hear about the good things about our law enforcement cause its just not as interesting.

[malabui]

Erm what good things?
I do have friends in America

[Julie]

Like risking their lives everyday protecting dumb*ss people.

My husbands department has set up "christmas for needy kids" from funds and donations. Each child in their county that signed up will get toys and clothes for christmas. Kinda like toys for tots, but on a much smaller scale.

The sheriff and the deputys will deliver the presents. I just hope it will help the children to learn the opposite of what most are being taught by their parents.

There is so much more, but no sense in wasting time.

[Renee750il]

Julie, you're right in a limited sense, but so is Malabui . . . From all of my years working and dealing with law enforcement, unless I knew exactly which officer or deputy would answer my call (which is impossible), I'd only make a 911 call as an absolute last resort - and maybe not even then. I'd just as soon take my chances. You wouldn't believe the dangerous buffoons they give guns and badges to here :rolleyes: And they endanger the good cops - often intentionally - that really are trying to be civil servants :mad:

[Saje]

There are good cops and bad cops. it's so true. My sis had one awesome one when she was attacked almost two years ago. But there are at least as many bad ones. Men on power trips. It's the same with any job. There are good reporters and bad ones.

[Bowowee]

Probably not, but it might slow him down a bit.

Just make sure the wind is not against you coz chances are the pepper spray might hit your face. Happened to me before, It hurts a lot.:D

[gaddylovesdogs]

There are good cops and bad cops.
Ditto. I really do appreciate the people who risk their lives to keep me safe, but there are bad ones too.

[malabui]

Just make sure the wind is not against you coz chances are the pepper spray might hit your face. Happened to me before, It hurts a lot.:D
I know that your point really isn't as amusing as it sounds... :D I hope that the pain went away fast

My husbands department has set up "christmas for needy kids" from funds and donations. Each child in their county that signed up will get toys and clothes for christmas. Kinda like toys for tots, but on a much smaller scale. Wow that is really nice of that department. Lets hope that that kind of association will help them not fear the police and teach them how not to get into trouble when they are older

[rottiegirl]

Just make sure the wind is not against you coz chances are the pepper spray might hit your face. Happened to me before, It hurts a lot. HA, thats too funny, but its so true! Sorry to hear about that. I will be sprayed with pepper spray anyhow, because every police officer has to. I am not too excited about it either.

[Saje]

My husbands department has set up "christmas for needy kids" from funds and donations. Each child in their county that signed up will get toys and clothes for christmas. Kinda like toys for tots, but on a much smaller scale.

The sheriff and the deputys will deliver the presents. I just hope it will help the children to learn the opposite of what most are being taught by their parents.


The fire department here does that. They have a "Santa's Helpers" day which is huge. Santa arrives on a train or helicopter (seriously) and kids sit on his lap, there's weiner roasts... in the meantime the firefighters are out on the street doing a helmut drive. They collect thousands of dollars in a few hours and then they put together food hampers and toys for needy families.

[Bowowee]

I personally think that law enforcement in the U.S. is not perfect but it is undoubtedly one of the world's best. Quick response time, humane handling of suspects, and great professionalism. Here in my country most of the cops are the criminals themselves.

[Amstaffer]

I doubt a pepper spray could do anything to a charging dog.:D

Pepper Spray is a lot stronger than mace and will stop a dog, trust me. They test Pepper Spray on Bears and it stops them.

[Bowowee]

Pepper Spray is a lot stronger than mace and will stop a dog, trust me. They test Pepper Spray on Bears and it stops them.

I guess it will if you get to hit it with the spray directly in the face which is hard to do especially if it is windy and the dog is very agile.

[Amstaffer]

I guess it will if you get to hit it with the spray directly in the face which is hard to do especially if it is windy and the dog is very agile.

I was trained with it and have had it used on me; trust me it would have to be VERY windy (Strong propellent) for it to throw of the stream of Pepperspray. Agile dog? They don't know what is about to hit them; it is harder to dodge Pepperspray than a bullet because it is a constant stream.

I guess I don't understand why someone would be so quick to kill a dog when you have a baton (I doubt a dog can take a human trained to use a baton), Pepperspray, two feet and two hands. I would think if you choose to shoot the dog, it is because you are either irrationally afraid, undertrained or just looking to "Shoot'em up" cowboy style. If you are trained properly and know how to use the tools of your profession, there is no need to shoot a dog coming at you.

[landkwold]

I read the link to the alleged BMD attack. I have to say that I seriously doubt that those dogs were BMDs. I can't tell you how many times I have run into people at the park that claim that they adopted a BMD mix. When I look at them, they look absolutely nothing like a BMD. I think that the shelters sometimes pass dogs off that have anything that has markings that resemble a rottie or dobbie as a BMD just to find them a home. I have seen one or two that I actually thought were BMD mixes, which pisses me off to no end, but these are still quite rare-- more rare than actually seeing full blooded BMDs. Not that I think it is impossible for an individual BMD to misbehave, but I am VERY skeptical.

What is a BMD?? sorry....Im not up on all the abbreviations...lol. Is it a Bull Mastiff? Ours is a gentle giant and would never hurt anyone (unless maybe a family member was in REAL danger, but I've never seen him aggressive toward any other person or animal-he's just a big clown who wants to play w/everyone....)-and that's the general view I get from most people who own them.....

[landkwold]

I was trained with it and have had it used on me; trust me it would have to be VERY windy (Strong propellent) for it to throw of the stream of Pepperspray. Agile dog? They don't know what is about to hit them; it is harder to dodge Pepperspray than a bullet because it is a constant stream.

I guess I don't understand why someone would be so quick to kill a dog when you have a baton (I doubt a dog can take a human trained to use a baton), Pepperspray, two feet and two hands. I would think if you choose to shoot the dog, it is because you are either irrationally afraid, undertrained or just looking to "Shoot'em up" cowboy style. If you are trained properly and know how to use the tools of your profession, there is no need to shoot a dog coming at you.
Whoo-I've gone through pepper spray training (full face exposure...), and that is some NASTY stuff!!! But in all honesty, if I was in a situation where I was going into a situation as a law inforcement officer and a dog came charging at me w/teeth bared, it would be shot-it's an unfortunate thing, but you have to consider your own safety and that of your team at that point........And I'm trained to use a baton, too-but you look at your use of force options-if someone is coming at you w/a knife (or some other means of deadly force) you would probably use your gun instead of your asp-the same goes for a dog trained to defend his home.....I don't think it has anything to do w/irrational fear, or wanting to go in cowboy style at all, sorry.

[Amstaffer]

And I'm trained to use a baton, too-but you look at your use of force options-if someone is coming at you w/a knife (or some other means of deadly force) you would probably use your gun instead of your asp-the same goes for a dog trained to defend his home.....I don't think it has anything to do w/irrational fear, or wanting to go in cowboy style at all, sorry.

First a man with a knife is a lot more dangerous than a dog. Most Self Defense trainers will tell you that within 15 feet a man with a knife is potentially more dangerous than a man with a gun.

Also everytime you discharge a gun you are putting lives at risk. If you use your baton to stop the dog, it is unlikely to bounce off concrete or a rock and hit you or someone else near by (same with your Pepper Spray and your hands and feet. Even if you have no compassion for the dog (not saying you don't) it is a better option not to use your gun.

Any police dept. that is training people to shoot first has not had good legal consul use of force in a populated area.

I wonder how police in the UK deal with dogs....they don't even have guns usually

[Gempress]

Well, blackmouth curs aren't on the list. Guess I have nothing to worry about, LoL. But still, it is sad that despite all the evidence that all dog breeds can bite, BSL is still alive and well.

[landkwold]

right, right-the knife was a bad example, I guess. I haven't ever been in a situation where I had to decide to shoot or not shoot at a dog, but I can understand the cases where a police officer feels that shooting the dog is necessary for their own safety. (For the record, I was not a police officer, I was a boarding officer in the Coast Guard, and didn't get much training on the use of pepper spray against dogs, and maybe I would feel differently if I had)I just don't think I'd want an unknown, clearly aggressive dog who is showing me that he wants to attack me getting close enough for me to use my baton. It would be a heartbreaking decision, either way, though.

[oriondw]

I have my dog to protect myself from other dogs :D

[PFC1]

What is a BMD?? sorry....Im not up on all the abbreviations...lol.


BMD = Bernese Mountain Dog (Or Berner) See: www.bmdca.org for more info.

[landkwold]

Just to join a bandwagon:

I've been bitting a few times. The one's i remember the most:

1. Doberman bit me when i was braeking up a dog fight
2. Malamute bit me when i was breaking up a dog fight

Few others small things here and there.

1. dobe put a nice 2 inch scar in my arm.
2. mal put a nice 1" scar into my left hand.

I had a doberman bite me in the same situation.....I was only a (dumb) kid, and I still have the scar on my left hand, too......

[landkwold]

BMD = Bernese Mountain Dog (Or Berner) See: www.bmdca.org for more info.

ahhh...gotcha :) tks

[doberkim]

i think some of you are missing the point - those of you going "phew, my breed isnt on there" or "those werent REAL [insert your breed here]'s, they were mixes" ---

your breed WILL be on there at some point. your breed HAS bitten a person, that i will guarantee you. and if you sit back and allow breed bans to continue for OTHER breeds, it won't be long until they keep moving on to more and more breeds.

you can sit back and let them ban other breeds, but who is going to help you once it gets to YOUr breed? after youve been relaxing and consoling yourself saying "but its not MY breed"...

[amymarley]

First off... anything with teeth can bite. Second, I do believe that certain breeds are "made" for protection and will protect. Boxers, who I love, are great with children. Mine, I trained him as an attack dog, but my baby and any other children could do anything to him and he would not flinch. As for a stranger approaching my car or home...whole different story. Putting all breeds aside, I think (in my own experience) some dogs (like people can be born with "mental issues.") The others, I believe the home enviornment, training, love, education the owners have, and post. reinforcement can do a lot. Again, as much as we love our pets, they are animals, and can have a "reaction" that we may not be able to control. Heck, we can't control all humans, or expect them to behave in a positive manner at all times, how can we expect our dogs to? I believe it's a case by case issue.

[bubbatd]

Yes, a bite can come from any breed ... it goes back to careful breeding. In my over 60 years of owning and breeding Goldens, I've never known of any who have bitten..Yes, they may be out there as a satistic, but what's the background ??

[oriondw]

Yes, a bite can come from any breed ... it goes back to careful breeding. In my over 60 years of owning and breeding Goldens, I've never known of any who have bitten..Yes, they may be out there as a satistic, but what's the background ??

In my breed if the dog will NOT bite, it is considered a poorely bred dog.

[Amstaffer]

i think some of you are missing the point - those of you going "phew, my breed isnt on there" or "those werent REAL [insert your breed here]'s, they were mixes" ---

your breed WILL be on there at some point. your breed HAS bitten a person, that i will guarantee you. and if you sit back and allow breed bans to continue for OTHER breeds, it won't be long until they keep moving on to more and more breeds.

you can sit back and let them ban other breeds, but who is going to help you once it gets to YOUr breed? after youve been relaxing and consoling yourself saying "but its not MY breed"...


Very good post!


My comment about "Breeding...poor or good" I think how you raise a dog matters much more, just my 2 cents.

[Alisha2324]

I don't think any breed dog should be banned. Where I live you can't have pits or rottties. Which I think is not right. I hate that insurance companies will denie you insurance(house or rental) for the breed of dog you have.

I have been attacked by a golden that I was raised with. We don't know why he just snapped. I worry about my own dog sometimes he can be possesive and aggressive at times,I am doing alot of research on how to curb that.

[oriondw]

Very good post!


My comment about "Breeding...poor or good" I think how you raise a dog matters much more, just my 2 cents.


It depends on the breed alot.

[Renee750il]

i think some of you are missing the point - those of you going "phew, my breed isnt on there" or "those werent REAL [insert your breed here]'s, they were mixes" ---

your breed WILL be on there at some point. your breed HAS bitten a person, that i will guarantee you. and if you sit back and allow breed bans to continue for OTHER breeds, it won't be long until they keep moving on to more and more breeds.

you can sit back and let them ban other breeds, but who is going to help you once it gets to YOUr breed? after youve been relaxing and consoling yourself saying "but its not MY breed"...

EXACTLY! Good post.

And the one following it from Animalbiz is also good.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I believe a dog's temperament depends on it's breed, it's breeding, it's training, it's owners, and how it is raised. Pit bulls have a tendency to be dog aggressive. I would not trust a pit alone with another dog because of that. But just because they are dog aggressive doesn't mean they aren't great dogs. The pits I have met, the pits I have seen, the pits that I see on TV are all usually wonderful, sweet, loving dogs.

[oriondw]

I believe a dog's temperament depends on it's breed, it's breeding, it's training, it's owners, and how it is raised. Pit bulls have a tendency to be dog aggressive. I would not trust a pit alone with another dog because of that. But just because they are dog aggressive doesn't mean they aren't great dogs. The pits I have met, the pits I have seen, the pits that I see on TV are all usually wonderful, sweet, loving dogs.

Get ready for pit crowed to get at your throat for saying that their breed is dog agressive ;)

I agree with you, btw.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I was thinking that when I was posting, but oh well. I do think pits are great dogs - the ones I have met were absolute sweethearts and I love the breed - but they do have a tendency to be dog aggressive and I would never trust one alone with another dog unsupervised. They were carefully bred to be aggressive towards other dogs and gentle towards humans. You can't completely breed that out of them, IMO.

[Bowowee]

Any breed can be dog aggressive if not properly trained or socialized.:D My pitbulls are not aggressive to other dogs. Still, they get mad and vicious when they see frogs and snakes. Pitbulls can be trained to be nice to other animals. They can even do herding jobs.

[Amstaffer]

Pitbulls are usually Dog Dominant...not aggressive. If not socialized correctly, then yes it can often be expressed as aggression. But they are not aggressive by nature. The guy who lives next to me has a pitbull who is very dominant but besides a lot of humping by his dog (Elwood) he never expresses it aggressively, He just plays rough (not mouthy).

This reponse is not an attack as some have predicted :rolleyes: , it sounds like you have the right idea just the wrong vernacular.

[BigDog2191]

What? Pit bulls are dog-aggressive... it's how they were bred. They were bred to be nice to humans, and aggressive towards animals. Not just by dog fighting but they were also bred to take down large game such as boars.

Gaddy's absolutely right, you should never leave a pitbull unattended with another dog. I heard about someone who left his Boxer alone with his Pit bull and they came back home to his Boxer dead.

[Amstaffer]

I heard about someone who left his Boxer alone with his Pit bull and they came back home to his Boxer dead.

I leave my to Amstaffs a lone with my moms Cockapoo every weekend (for several years) and have left them with my aunts Shitzu and with my sisters Aussies and My brothers Lab/Collie mix and my friends pitbull and Pomerian (sp?) and Never has there been a fight or any problem. Although we do suspect Athena of tearing the head off a stuffed bear....but we can't be sure it was her.

They are Dominant by nature, not aggressive. They learn to respond aggressively if rewarded to do so. Dominance is a trait, Aggression is a response.

Also....How do you know the boxer didn't start the fight?

[pitbulliest]

Get ready for pit crowed to get at your throat for saying that their breed is dog agressive ;)


Why do you have to say snitty little remarks like that? :rolleyes:
I for one, am part of the pit bull "crowed"...and pit bulls can be dog aggressive, yes.

Do you have a problem with the "pit crowed"...because it seems like you're always jumping down our throats for trying to educate the public about the breed.

Is there a problem you'd like to share with the rest of the world?

[Becca_]

I havent read thru all the post here but I'd like to say something.
Last week we had a customer here. He seen Gracie and said "oh a Chow, man they are mean!They will bite" he went on to say his neighbor has a Chow, the dogs owner's mother is home alone most of the time so this dog was "trained to be a guard dog". The dog was trained to make sure no one went near his mother. Then a few days ago a guy was here, again we listened to how mean Chows are. He went on to say they use to have 2 Chows and they trained them to be guard dogs. This same guy has a great dane that I will never go near. A couple of nights ago a friend and his wife stopped to visit. They had never met Gracie before. He was scared to death of Gracie. He said Chows are mean. Again he told of people he knew who had trained their Chows to be a guard dog. Gracie tried to get close to him but he was scared. His wife though was great with Gracie. Anyway what I'm getting at is these people who are training their dogs to be a certain way are the reason so many people are scared of certain breeds or believe certain way about them. I really believe its all in the way the dogs are raised. Doesnt matter the breed. They need socialized with people and other animals.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I have no problem with pits - as I have said before, I love pit bulls and the ones I have met were absolute sweethearts that sat there and kissed me - but they are dog-aggressive and I would never leave them alone with another dog. But just because they are dog-aggressive doesn't mean they aren't a great breed.

[mojozen]

I have no problem with pits - as I have said before, I love pit bulls and the ones I have met were absolute sweethearts that sat there and kissed me - but they are dog-aggressive and I would never leave them alone with another dog. But just because they are dog-aggressive doesn't mean they aren't a great breed.

The majority of pit bulls are yes dog - aggressive... but not all. I have met more than a few pits who were dog-friendly, and mine is friendly with other dogs as long as the other dog doesn't rush him or me. There are always exceptions to every rule when it comes to living animals.... that's the only definate thing when it comes to nature.

:)

[Amstaffer]

The majority of pit bulls are yes dog - aggressive... but not all. I have met more than a few pits who were dog-friendly, and mine is friendly with other dogs as long as the other dog doesn't rush him or me. There are always exceptions to every rule when it comes to living animals.... that's the only definate thing when it comes to nature.

:)

Pit Bulls are usually Dominant but that does not mean Aggressive, I sure wish more people knew the difference. If socialized properly a dominant dog will not be aggressive. If a dog becomes aggressive it is the fault of the owner not the dogs nature.

[pitbulliest]

In my breed if the dog will NOT bite, it is considered a poorely bred dog.


What kind of breed do you have?
Can you further explain this point? It sounds kinda disturbing... :confused:

[lucille]

Did you respect the lawyers you worked for?
They are far more corrupt than the bottom of the pole officers that risk their lives to keep the shitheads in line. This is not all about government this is about everyday men and women that go into dangerous situations for a less than adequate pay. They go and do the dangerous things most people would run from.

Lots of negativity toward officers until someone needs them. Then people act like they are their best friend. Have seen it many times.

Again, I will say, I just hope my husband gets to come home to his family this night and everynight.

God Bless the patrol man/woman and their working dogs.

I have a lot of respect for law enforcement, and many friends who are in law enforcement. This thread is a discussion about dog bites. and that is something that should be able to be civilly discussed on any dog board so that all may come away knowing more.

I do not think that taking a broad brush and smearing attorneys will help this conversation, especially for those people who both love dogs and also happen to be in the legal field.

In fact, I believe that action through attorneys who love dogs as far as fighting unfair or unconstitutional statutes as well as education for everyone will go a far way toward keeping our rights to own dogs intact.

If we divide ourselves we will be easy pickings for those who would outlaw many dogs altogether.

[RedyreRottweilers]

I've been associated with Rottweilers since 1988.

This is another breed that in many countries, including the country of origin, where they are bred, if they can not face a human adversary with complete courage, and bite to defend themselves or their handler, they are not used for breeding.

Both my adult bitches are well versed in the bad guy and what to do if the need arises.

They are both also quite sociable, friendly, touchable and approachable by any person in a normal situation.

Should anyone threaten me, or invade my property when I am not present, they most CERTAINLY would defend me and bite if necessary, and I would expect them to. It's MY JOB to protect the dog from doing what it is genetically designed to do. It's MY JOB to socialize and train and confine that dog so that he understands what is and is not a threat, and so that he is always under my control, for his/her own safety.

You would never feel uncomfortable around my dogs in my home, or on the street, or at any dog show. They are just like any other dog, except if a threat arises, they have been well trained in what to do, and more importantly, what NOT to do.

Any fool can teach a dog to bite. It's teaching them when NOT to bite where the training comes in. ;)

[oriondw]

What kind of breed do you have?
Can you further explain this point? It sounds kinda disturbing... :confused:

Caucasian Mountain Dog.

If the dog has soft mouth or does not bite an attacker it is considered poorly bred and should not be used for breeding.

Dog should do it naturally without any training. Dog should be reserved and calm but should bite in a proper way when it is threatened.


These dogs are guard dogs btw, thats their role and thats what they did for thousands of years.

[oriondw]

They are just like any other dog, except if a threat arises, they have been well trained in what to do, and more importantly, what NOT to do.

Any fool can teach a dog to bite. It's teaching them when NOT to bite where the training comes in. ;)


Perfect quote!


Especially the last sentence.

[Julie]

I have a lot of respect for law enforcement, and many friends who are in law enforcement. This thread is a discussion about dog bites. and that is something that should be able to be civilly discussed on any dog board so that all may come away knowing more.

I do not think that taking a broad brush and smearing attorneys will help this conversation, especially for those people who both love dogs and also happen to be in the legal field.

In fact, I believe that action through attorneys who love dogs as far as fighting unfair or unconstitutional statutes as well as education for everyone will go a far way toward keeping our rights to own dogs intact.

If we divide ourselves we will be easy pickings for those who would outlaw many dogs altogether.


Well, I am sorry if you thought I made a "broad brush" to smear attorneys, but there has been many "broad brush smears" against law enforcement officers. And really..........in my experience they are more honest and willing to do all the dirty work. There are many on this forum that always put down cops/law enforcement. I really get so sick of defending my family's well earned source of income, that it gets out of hand. I have personally had the contact with many lawyers that are nothing more than big fat slugs. Oh well, but I have seen first hand who does what, and then they only get condemend for being the active person in combating the shitheads in the streets. What do you want? All or Nothing?
I can't even comment anymore, or I'd probably just blow up, and I don't want that.

And this thread has been blown to more than just a dog bite!

Julie.

[sparks19]

Well, I am sorry if you thought I made a "broad brush" to smear attorneys, but there has been many "broad brush smears" against law enforcement officers. And really..........in my experience they are more honest and willing to do all the dirty work. There are many on this forum that always put down cops/law enforcement. I really get so sick of defending my family's well earned source of income, that it gets out of hand. I have personally had the contact with many lawyers that are nothing more than big fat slugs. Oh well, but I have seen first hand who does what, and then they only get condemend for being the active person in combating the shitheads in the streets. What do you want? All or Nothing?
I can't even comment anymore, or I'd probably just blow up, and I don't want that.

And this thread has been blown to more than just a dog bite!

Julie.


Julie I agree with you. I do not blame you for being upset by this thread. I think police officers do a wonderful job. I hate how they get sh*t on when they DO THEIR JOBS. When the police have to use lethal force everyone gets on the horn and screams about it but if it was their family that needed help and they weren't there to save them they would be on the horn screaming about it also.

I mean I just don't understand how you could have less respect for someone who goes out and risks there life night after night to TRY to keep everyone safe then for some ambulance chaser who only wants to pad his wallet.

Yes there are bad cops but there are also bad lawyers and bad everything else. yes there are good lawyers but there are also GOOD cops and good everything else. No one is perfect.

[Amstaffer]

Yes there are bad cops but there are also bad lawyers and bad everything else. yes there are good lawyers but there are also GOOD cops and good everything else. No one is perfect.

Your right on here, it just seems the bad ones get the press. Broad brushes are always bad but we should be able to be critical of indivuals in any field. I have noticed that some people get all upset if some makes a bad comment about one or a few members of a profession and assume the person is talking about "all". Most Police and I think most Lawyers are good but to point out that one Cop or Lawyer is bad should be ok.

[Bowowee]

:) good cops, bad cops, good lawyers, bad lawyers. They're all totally different breeds. If you don't belong to that breed you should not be affected at all. Merry Christmas!:D

[Bowowee]

I was thinking that when I was posting, but oh well. I do think pits are great dogs - the ones I have met were absolute sweethearts and I love the breed - but they do have a tendency to be dog aggressive and I would never trust one alone with another dog unsupervised. They were carefully bred to be aggressive towards other dogs and gentle towards humans. You can't completely breed that out of them, IMO.

- Pitbulls per se are not dog aggressive. They only become dog aggressive when they are trained for dog fights. A pitbull raised as a pet or for show eventhough they're progenies of fighting pits are generally not dog aggressive.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a92/bowowee/IMG_1624.jpg

[lucille]

Well, I am sorry if you thought I made a "broad brush" to smear attorneys, but there has been many "broad brush smears" against law enforcement officers. And really..........in my experience they are more honest and willing to do all the dirty work. There are many on this forum that always put down cops/law enforcement. I really get so sick of defending my family's well earned source of income, that it gets out of hand. I have personally had the contact with many lawyers that are nothing more than big fat slugs.

Julie.

I have seen no attack here against police officers. And I have respect for them and for the work they do.

I personally know many fine and upstanding attorneys as well as police officers, although I know that poor examples of both exist.

[lucille]

Your right on here, it just seems the bad ones get the press. Broad brushes are always bad but we should be able to be critical of indivuals in any field. I have noticed that some people get all upset if some makes a bad comment about one or a few members of a profession and assume the person is talking about "all". Most Police and I think most Lawyers are good but to point out that one Cop or Lawyer is bad should be ok.


I totally agree.

[mojozen]

- Pitbulls per se are not dog aggressive. They only become dog aggressive when they are trained for dog fights. A pitbull raised as a pet or for show eventhough they're progenies of fighting pits are generally not dog aggressive.



I disagree with this.

Yes, environment has a factor in everything that happens not only in our lives but also our dogs lives, but genetics also plays a big role. If you ignore genetics, then you may be asking for trouble down the line.

I knew an ex-fighter pit named Mikey in my old neighborhood. Mikey was the sweetest **** dog I had ever met, and despite being fought in the past (he was a rescue), he still liked my own dog and would play with him when we met him and his owners out walking.

According to his owners, Mikey was sweet to all dogs save for a few males, despite being permantently scarred from his life before them. They were still careful with new dogs, and we all kept an eye on our dogs, so as soon as an unhappy grumble erupted frmo anyone we would seperate them and go on our way.

But if by your definition pits only become dog aggressive by being fought - why was Mikey so sweet?

And why is it my 3 year old adopted dog has gone from being very social with other dogs to becoming more dog aggressive in the past 6 months due not to my fighting him, but my not allowing him to play with other dogs? We're not in a neighborhood now where I feel it's safe to get to know my neighbors that well?

(that and I am sick of fending off questions regarding Mojo's "gameness," how well does he do in a fight, is he neutered, and/or am i willing to sell him?)

[Amstaffer]

But if by your definition pits only become dog aggressive by being fought - why was Mikey so sweet?

And why is it my 3 year old adopted dog has gone from being very social with other dogs to becoming more dog aggressive in the past 6 months due not to my fighting him, but my not allowing him to play with other dogs? We're not in a neighborhood now where I feel it's safe to get to know my neighbors that well?

(that and I am sick of fending off questions regarding Mojo's "gameness," how well does he do in a fight, is he neutered, and/or am i willing to sell him?)

Mikey is so sweet because most Pits are and whoever was training him to fight was most likely poor at it (thank God)

Your 3 year old is getting more aggressive for several possible reasons (IMHO)

#1 Sounds like you have cut back on his socialization, at a crucial time. 3 years old is the age were Pit Bulls really establish there personality with other dogs. He is at his peak Physical and Emotional strength and he might be testing himself with other dogs.

#2 You feeling about the area you live in might be getting transfered to you dog. Pit Bulls especially are very quick to pick up on signals from their owner. I would travel out of the area if need to maintain and increase his socialization.

#3 Pit Bulls don't need to be fought to become aggressive towards dogs. You need only ignore or encourage aggressive behavior in a dog who displays dominant and aggressive behavior. If you have a dominant dog you can direct it is positive ways but if let to their own some dominant dogs will just express themselves in an aggressive way (at with Pits that usually means dog aggression)

#4 Pit Bulls almost all have a strong desire to interact with other dogs, if you isolate him form other dogs completely you might be frustrating him and this might be leading him to act out. Both my Amstaffs just crave interaction with other dogs. It is just like if you don't give a job to a border collie they can be come destructive. If your dog already has become aggressive towards dogs you will need professional help.

Your post confused me a little (I confuse easy sometimes :D ), you started out by seeming to imply nature has more influence than Nuture but then you post appeared to dispute that. What exactly was you point?

I think dogs and humans are 75 Nuture and 25 percent Nature.

[mojozen]

#4 Pit Bulls almost all have a strong desire to interact with other dogs, if you isolate him form other dogs completely you might be frustrating him and this might be leading him to act out. Both my Amstaffs just crave interaction with other dogs. It is just like if you don't give a job to a border collie they can be come destructive. If your dog already has become aggressive towards dogs you will need professional help.

Your post confused me a little (I confuse easy sometimes :D ), you started out by seeming to imply nature has more influence than Nuture but then you post appeared to dispute that. What exactly was you point?

I think dogs and humans are 75 Nuture and 25 percent Nature.

I think your #4 reason is correct - and I could also be reading him wrong too. When we see other dogs on walks, Mojo will get a bit poofy on his neck and butt. He gets really intense and pulls to go meet them. If he is allowed to meet any dogs he has relaxed after the first sniffing.

I know I am jeopardizing him with my own cautiousness.. but I am not sure where to take him to socialize him. I try to get him out to petstores at least once every week or so, if I have the tiem and am not sick (it's been a rough winter so far), but for us dog parks are out. Not because Mojo has ever fought in the park, but because he hates it when he gets rushed by other dogs and most other dog owners aren't so great about calling their dogs off when they rush. I'd rather not stress him out to the point he snaps to get them off of him, so I just don't take him anymore.

I am hoping to get us into a new obedience class in the next few months as I think that will be a good outlet, but working schedules out is proving difficult. And the local social groups for dogs at different kennels do not want him to participate because he's an adult pit. :(

But I am working on the problem.

I'm sorry I was confusing, I wrote that comment while quite distracted by work. My belief is that Nurture vs Nature is more 50-50. Either one can tip the other out of the delicate balance they are in with each other. It depends on many factors. I do not believe that either outweighs the other normally...

But maybe I need more time to research, think on and experience life with my pit mix. I also do not have a multiple dog household, so I may be missing something important just because of that?

I hope I am less confusing in this post! :)

[Dixie]

Lets throw in EMS now why dont we??

People would scream at the FD for parking in their driveway to fight a fire in their neighors house, and the same folks would scream if the FD did not come right away to put out a fire at their residence.

Also Ive had people call in complaining that we parked in their driveway during a standy at a residential fire, one even got into the rig and actually got on the radio. Needless to say the woman was booted out of the unit and arrested on the spot for breaking and entering into government property (as the EMS service here is county owned and regulated.)

and if lawyer wants to follow my rig conjuring up a malpractice suit with the patient that is fine. I keep my run-reports well documented.

:D ;) :P

-Dixie

[rottiegirl]

- Pitbulls per se are not dog aggressive. They only become dog aggressive when they are trained for dog fights. A pitbull raised as a pet or for show eventhough they're progenies of fighting pits are generally not dog aggressive.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a92/bowowee/IMG_1624.jpg
No, I do not believe that to be true. How a dog acts has to do with more than just how they are treated and trained. Genetics plays a huge role in this. Pits who are bred to be aggressive towards other dogs are going to be aggressive with other dogs or at least very dominant. I know this for a fact because my neighbor had an 8 week old pit bull puppy that was never trained to fight other dogs, and she tried to attack my mother pug that was minding its own business. That puppy hated other dogs.

[Saje]

that's just one example though. If a lab did that would you say that all labs were dog aggressive?

I think genetics do play a role but not to the degree people think. And I think that any dog that is not socialized with other dogs has a strong possibility of being 'dog aggressive'

[rottiegirl]

that's just one example though. If a lab did that would you say that all labs were dog aggressive?

I think genetics do play a role but not to the degree people think. And I think that any dog that is not socialized with other dogs has a strong possibility of being 'dog aggressive'
I know thats only one example, but I did my reseach on genetics. If a lab puppy did that to other dogs then I would say that that puppy was poorly bred. Labs are not supposed to be dog aggressive, but pit bulls are. I also agree that every dog should be socialzed so it will not become aggressive with other dogs. I am just saying that genetics do play a role. Nature 50% nurture 50%.

[oriondw]

In my breed, no matter how well socialized the dog will be animal agressive.


Just the way they are...

[rottiegirl]

In my breed, no matter how well socialized the dog will be animal agressive.


Just the way they are...
Goes to show the effects of genetics.

[Bowowee]

No, I do not believe that to be true. How a dog acts has to do with more than just how they are treated and trained. Genetics plays a huge role in this. Pits who are bred to be aggressive towards other dogs are going to be aggressive with other dogs or at least very dominant. I know this for a fact because my neighbor had an 8 week old pit bull puppy that was never trained to fight other dogs, and she tried to attack my mother pug that was minding its own business. That puppy hated other dogs.

- I have 4 pitbulls, none of them are dog aggressive or human aggressive. I don't know where you got your info but the only dog aggressive pits I saw are the ones used in dog fighting. Believe me, its how you raise them up. There will be lots and lots of myths about our animals, but you'll really never get to know one unless you get to own one.
Merry Christmas Rottie. Wish I also have Golden Hair like you.

[Brattina88]

- I have 4 pitbulls, none of them are dog aggressive or human aggressive. I don't know where you got your info but the only dog aggressive pits I saw are the ones used in dog fighting. Believe me, its how you raise them up. There will be lots and lots of myths about our animals, but you'll really never get to know one unless you get to own one.
Merry Christmas Rottie. Wish I also have Golden Hair like you.
I have a question for you. Do you think its possible for a person to get a puppy from a litter of prized fighters and raise it with no problems of aggression? J/W

[Bowowee]

I have a question for you. Do you think its possible for a person to get a puppy from a litter of prized fighters and raise it with no problems of aggression? J/W

Yes. My gamebred pitbull "Carlito", is the son of a famous champion fighter here in my country. I don't like dog fights, neither do I go to one. A friend sold him to me. At that time I was still cynophobic but my Dad told me that I need a dog in my farm. I don't know anything about pitbulls nor any other breed of dog at that time. Everything went out smoothly...I got the sweetest dog anyone could ever have. I raised Carlito not to be dog aggressive or human aggressive, he roams around my farm, mingles with my other dogs, swine, and cattle.

[Gallien Jacks]

Yes. My gamebred pitbull "Carlito", is the son of a famous champion fighter here in my country. I don't like dog fights, neither do I go to one. A friend sold him to me. At that time I was still cynophobic but my Dad told me that I need a dog in my farm. I don't know anything about pitbulls nor any other breed of dog at that time. Everything went out smoothly...I got the sweetest dog anyone could ever have. I raised Carlito not to be dog aggressive or human aggressive, he roams around my farm, mingles with my other dogs, swine, and cattle.
What about his offspring what are they like?

[Amstaffer]

I have a question for you. Do you think its possible for a person to get a puppy from a litter of prized fighters and raise it with no problems of aggression? J/W

Without a doubt you could. My female was a rescue from a raid on a fighting ring. Her mother was pregant when the raid went down and she was born at the shelter 3 days later. She is very self confidenet with other dogs but is not aggressive (however I don't think she would ever back down from another dog). The only time she has come close to fighting with other dogs is when a 90lb+ GSD tried to mount her at the dog park. She showed lots of teeth and snapped at his neck but never broke skin. She only scared him. Can you blame her though :p

I think if you do any research on Psychology and behavior (I teach Psy to High School Students) you will find Genetics give you tendencies (eg Dominance) but actual behavior is almost all learned.

So what I am saying is you can breed dogs to have tendencies like dominance towards other dogs but how they will act on those tendencies is determined by there life experience. If you encourage negative behavior that is what the dog will display. Now you can encourage negative behavior in a passive way by ignoring it, like the parent who knows their child is drinking but avoids conflict and ignores it....this is a form of passive encouragement.

No matter how you frame the question or make your statement....Dogs are not aggressive by nature, Dog or Human dominant but not aggressive. There is a big difference.

On the 8 week old attack dog...sounds like the puppy was sick or something major going on. No 8 week old puppy should attack for real, unprovoked. Are you sure it wasn't just a very rough play move or dominance display? Pits do play REALLY rough.

I have a friend that had a German Short Hair Pointer who's best friend in the whole world was a Pit Bull. They played together for years together and had never got mad at each other. During one play session a 1/2 sq inch of flesh was removed from the GSHP's ear flap. No one knew until well after they were done playing, neither dog cryed or growled and they ended the day as best of friends as always. That just goes to show you how things can get out of hand without involving aggression.

[Gallien Jacks]

It can be genetics and also is can be the pups copying mum,

[Brattina88]

Without a doubt you could.
I was wondering, and also hoping for that response... I don't take my phsyc classes until next fall semister, but what you said makes a lot of sense. I'm sure the Mom does play a big role in the puppies as well.

[oriondw]

Dogs are not aggressive by nature, Dog or Human dominant but not aggressive. There is a big difference.



That just shows how much you know about dogs.

Sorry but that sentence right there is just stupidity..

It shows that you only have very limited experience and knowledge of different breeds.

Also, dont make a comback of you hate pits, dont insult me... what I write is true to the core. I know this from experience with such breeds, and you obviously never had a breed like that, and probably never will.

What makes me mad, is that you are saying that if a dog is aggresive then its the owners fault. Getting a feeling that you want ALL dogs to be lap dogs who couldnt hurt a fly... Yeah, thats how breeds temperments get destoryed. Good example is American bred GSD's, rotties and dobes...

[lucille]

In my breed, no matter how well socialized the dog will be animal agressive.


Just the way they are...



Hopefully the owners of this particular breed are well aware of this aggression so that these dogs are not brought to dog parks and so on. Or worse, the dog confuses a small child for an animal and mauls it.

I am not familiar with this breed (Caucasian Mountain Dogs) at all, are there a lot of them around?

[oriondw]

Hopefully the owners of this particular breed are well aware of this aggression so that these dogs are not brought to dog parks and so on. Or worse, the dog confuses a small child for an animal and mauls it.

I am not familiar with this breed at all, are there a lot of them around?

They wouldnt touch a child minding his own business. Trust me they know a difference between a child and a small animal. Most are also very good with things they dont consider a major threat, i.e. older people and children.

If a child hit a dog with a stick or poked its eye's, thats another question.

There is a very limited stock in US for which i am greateful, because most people here know nothing of responsible dog ownership, especially with such breeds as mine.

Its ok to bring them to dog parks when they are puppies for socialization ( i.e. 1-1.5 year tops, 2 years max). I went to dog parks till he was 2 years old, but after about 1.5 it was with a select group of dogs i knew he loved, when new dogs came we left. After that age dogs wont be able to be brought to dog parks without incidents. Only very very, read less then 1%, of dogs can be brought into dog parks.

Besides this is a Russian breed, which is prominant in Russia and dog laws and understanding of dogs is alot idfferent then here in states.

[lucille]

They wouldnt touch a child minding his own business. Trust me they know a difference between a child and a small animal. Most are also very good with things they dont consider a threat, i.e. older people and children.

If a child hit a dog with a stick or poked its eye's, thats another question.

There is a very limited stock in US for which i am greateful, because most people here know nothing of responsible dog ownership, especially with such breeds as mine.

Its ok to bring them to dog parks when they are puppies for socialization ( i.e. 1-1.5 year tops, 2 years max). After that age dogs wont be able to be brought to dog parks without incident. Only very very, read less then 1%, of dogs can be brought into dog parks.

Besides this is a Russian breed, which is prominant in Russia and dog laws and understanding of dogs is alot idfferent then here in states.

Here, from your link: Could you please post pix of this dog that I and my dogs would have to stay 50 feet away from?

Do not run toward the Ovcharka
Do not scream around the Ovcharka
Do not make sudden and sharp movements around a Caucasian or his owner, most will react
Do not sneak up on Caucasians and their walkers, this is perhaps the best way to get hurt. Make sure the owner knows you are coming and has time to secure the dog
Do not let your small/big/medium dog closer then 50ft to Caucasian unless you asked owners permission to let dogs meet. Most Caucasians are very animal aggressive Kind of redundant, but do not stop while driving to ask the owner questions. It just aggravates the dog and the owner and you wont get any answers from angry owner trying to keep his dog off your car.
Do not think they will not bite because you are not afraid of them. If you give them a reason, they will bite and you will get hurt, your fear has absolutely nothing to do with how dogs perceive you. So please use common sense and don’t give a Caucasian a reason to protect himself and His owner

[lucille]

They wouldnt touch a child minding his own business. Trust me they know a difference between a child and a small animal. Most are also very good with things they dont consider a major threat, i.e. older people and children.
.

How do they know this, that children and older people are not threats but by implication middle age people are threats?
How do they know the difference between a running small child and a running small animal: I am curious because I have heard of 'prey drive' that kicks in when small critters run away from certain dogs.

[oriondw]

Here, from your link: Could you please post pix of this dog that I and my dogs would have to stay 50 feet away from?

Do not let your small/big/medium dog closer then 50ft to Caucasian unless you asked owners permission to let dogs meet. Most Caucasians are very animal aggressive

What I write on my website has to do with general dog ettiquete.

What that means is keep your dog on leash, and ask the owner before letting dogs meet. You'd be amazed at how many times people on walks just stroll up to us without a thought in their mind...

You should always ask the owner before approaching their dog. Also please, stop with fear mongering, your first sentance is plain rude.

[lucille]

Sorry, did not mean to be rude, the 50 feet was from your own post. Your own post says that no matter how much socialization, your breed is animal aggressive.
Write more about your breed, I am unfamiliar with it, please post pix.

[oriondw]

How do they know this, that children and older people are not threats but by implication middle age people are threats?
How do they know the difference between a running small child and a running small animal: I am curious because I have heard of 'prey drive' that kicks in when small critters run away from certain dogs.


Prey drive in this breed is almost non existant when compared to a dog like husky. These dogs have been protection and guard dogs for almost 3000+ years, they know how to differentiate threats. Infact, one of the most important traits is to distinguish between threats, but this obviously requires an owner with a head on his shoulders :)

[oriondw]

Sorry, did not mean to be rude, the 50 feet was from your own post. Your own post says that no matter how much socialization, your breed is animal aggressive.


That is correct. They are animal aggressive no matter the socialization. The point of socialization is to make the dog learn that certain things are not threats, as with any dog. Still, as i said, no matter the socialization, they are will always be weary and mistrusting of strangers, be it dogs or human. Nature of a guard dog.

http://www.kavkazec.boom.ru/Caucasian/lava2.jpg

Not my dog, but search my posts, i posted loads of pictures of my pup few weeks ago.

I try to help people by writing that so people use caution around our breed and dont get hurt. Lets face it, Caucasians are much more dangerous then a golden lab. :)

[landkwold]

(from the previous post's website...)

Here’s what you should do when you see a Caucasian......lol. Is it just me or does this sound like something from the Chapelle show? Sorry...off topic, I just had to say it.:D

[oriondw]

(from the previous post's website...)

Here’s what you should do when you see a Caucasian......lol. Is it just me or does this sound like something from the Chapelle show? Sorry...off topic, I just had to say it.:D

:D I call copyright! :D ;)


edit:

Rofl, i just got it. Haha, that does remind me of his show!

[BigDog2191]

Haha! That's funny...

I'd like to own a Caucasian in the future after some more experience. Orion, are there any good breeders in the US or would you recommend importing?

[Bowowee]

What about his offspring what are they like?

- Same as him. A Pitbull loves to please his master. Teach it to be aggressive and it will. Teach it to be a jolly carebear and it will. It all depends on the trainer or owner.

[lucille]

I try to help people by writing that so people use caution around our breed and dont get hurt. Lets face it, Caucasians are much more dangerous then a golden lab. :)

This breed is a tort lawyer's dream.....:D

[RedyreRottweilers]

Yeah, thats how breeds temperments get destoryed. Good example is American bred GSD's, rotties and dobes...

There are many fine examples of Rottweilers of correct temperament being bred in the US.

Many participate in dog sport with dogs born in the US.

I might have to agree, tho, on the GSDs and Dobes. Not much temperament left in those show lines in the US.

I think one reason for this is that there is very little divergence in type between here and Europe in Rottweilers, and this is not so for the other 2 breeds. Imports are frequent in Rottweilers, so we do have infusions of dogs bred for correct temperament frequently.

Some breeders have certainly "dumbed down" the Rottweiler and bred for softer temperaments.

I do not prefer these dogs, and would not breed one if I ever ended up with one by accident. No bite, no breeding, not for me anyway.

JMO as always.

:D

[BigDog2191]

I will never buy from a breeder who breeds American blood lines. Rocky, in fact, comes from German showlines.

[RD]

The sad thing is that everyone wants dogs that are perfect pets, even though many breeds are not suited to life as a couch potato. People, instead of educating themselves about how to act around dogs, expect all dogs to be perfect and to love all people without even knowing them. They think that they should be able to walk right into the home of any dog and not even be growled at. They think that dogs shouldn't be active and bouncy and excitable, so they just breed them down until they're all the same - docile, and often submissive to the point of being fearful.

[oriondw]

The sad thing is that everyone wants dogs that are perfect pets, even though many breeds are not suited to life as a couch potato. People, instead of educating themselves about how to act around dogs, expect all dogs to be perfect and to love all people without even knowing them. They think that they should be able to walk right into the home of any dog and not even be growled at. They think that dogs shouldn't be active and bouncy and excitable, so they just breed them down until they're all the same - docile, and often submissive to the point of being fearful.


Exactly my thoughts :)

[oriondw]

Haha! That's funny...

I'd like to own a Caucasian in the future after some more experience. Orion, are there any good breeders in the US or would you recommend importing?


Importing is very expensive and for a puppy a very hard road. Alot of diseases there are different. Its a pain to do all the shots overthere for here.


Its easier to buy from a breeder here. I actually belong to a club of owners/breeders there are a couple of very good breeders.

They only breed 1 or maximum 2 litters per year though and there is always a big waiting list.

[pitbulliest]

Haha! That's funny...

I'd like to own a Caucasian in the future after some more experience. Orion, are there any good breeders in the US or would you recommend importing?

ADOPT PEOPLE..ADOPT...
As if there isn't already a bad enough population crisis in the States..people now also want to IMPORT more animals? DEAR LORD!!!



What are the laws like in Russia regarding breeding standards and animal welfare anyways oriondw...
I have friends from Russia that tell me alot of the dogs are chained outside and neglected...is this true?...that would concern me about the type of breeders that exist as well...I'm not saying that about you, but in general from what other people have told me...can you give us some details...

[oriondw]

ADOPT PEOPLE..ADOPT...
As if there isn't already a bad enough population crisis in the States..people now also want to IMPORT more animals? DEAR LORD!!!



What are the laws like in Russia regarding breeding standards and animal welfare anyways oriondw...
I have friends from Russia that tell me alot of the dogs are chained outside and neglected...is this true?...that would concern me about the type of breeders that exist as well...I'm not saying that about you, but in general from what other people have told me...can you give us some details...


It depends on where you go. Majority of dogs with owners are very good off. Most are used as guard dogs, only rich keep pets. Strays are obviously neglected because there is no one to take care of them.

Caucasians are expensive dogs and have set bloodlines, etc, etc. There is no demand for backyard caucasians in Russia. Because people get the dog for one reason, guard duty. People buy dogs from tested lines, who have rock solid correct temperament. There are ofcourse people with fake papers, etc, but there is enough of that here in America as well.

A good dog or bitch puppy from good line costs on average of 2-5k $

[oriondw]

ADOPT PEOPLE..ADOPT...
As if there isn't already a bad enough population crisis in the States..people now also want to IMPORT more animals? DEAR LORD!!!



Adopting a caucasian, is very tricky... I would reccomend to adopt one if you already had a caucasian before, but for a new owner... Its just asking for trouble.


These dogs are very hard to adopt because it takes alot of time to gain their respect, and while you do they are very difficult to control.

Imagine a 140-150 pound dog with strength of a bear that doesnt respect you. Very very hard to control. Not good idea for new owner.

[pitbulliest]

Alot of time to gain their respect? Well what about if they're raised from puppyhood?

They almost sound impossible to me, which is strange....I was looking at the American website for these dogs....some of the owners use them as certified therapy dogs...I meant, I don't think you would use an aggressive dog that is difficult to control for that type of work...

Again, I believe it goes for every dog..it depends on how they are raised, socialized, and the breeding...

[Amstaffer]

That just shows how much you know about dogs.

Sorry but that sentence right there is just stupidity..

It shows that you only have very limited experience and knowledge of different breeds.

Also, dont make a comback of you hate pits, dont insult me... what I write is true to the core. I know this from experience with such breeds, and you obviously never had a breed like that, and probably never will.

What makes me mad, is that you are saying that if a dog is aggresive then its the owners fault. Getting a feeling that you want ALL dogs to be lap dogs who couldnt hurt a fly... Yeah, thats how breeds temperments get destoryed. Good example is American bred GSD's, rotties and dobes...

I think the more you write on this message board the more people realize that you are tied to the "toughness" of your dog, I would love to do psychological work up on you. It is truly sad that there are people like yourself who live through their dog and want their dog to be everything they can't be or are afraid to be. In my opinion you shouldn't even own a dog if you encourage and take pleasure in having an agressive dog. As cultures advance they no longer need their dogs to be killers. Welcome to the modern age.

You talk about "your" breeds being naturally aggressive and I have no idea what I am talking about. It sounds like your dogs have been in the company of people who like and encourage aggression so of course they will act that way. You even say you hope they never fall in the hands of Americans who might civilize them. I bet if you raise one of your Russian Macho dogs in a secure and relaxed but firm family you could raise him to be a fine dog. Don't blame genetics for your insecurities.

The first post I ever read of yours was how you bragged how your dog could kill three timberwolves at the same time.....lol. I think that sums you up completely. This is not meant to insult you but sense you wanted to attack my crediblity I think it is time someone points out your agenda and bias.

[oriondw]

Alot of time to gain their respect? Well what about if they're raised from puppyhood?

They almost sound impossible to me, which is strange....I was looking at the American website for these dogs....some of the owners use them as certified therapy dogs...I meant, I don't think you would use an aggressive dog that is difficult to control for that type of work...

Again, I believe it goes for every dog..it depends on how they are raised, socialized, and the breeding...

As i said before they are very good with things that they know are weaker then them.

Older people, children or sick people, they make wonderful therapy dogs!

My dog is contstantly around older people and they love him :) I try to stay away from children because im afraid he'd get excited and want to play with them, but he's too big to play safely with active children.

But middle aged males and females and other animals he's weary about

Its just if a dog is threatened or if the owner is threatened, the dog will try its best to neutralize the threat. thats why it requires an experienced owner.

They truly are a unique breed, them and CAO sister breeds.

[oriondw]

I think the more you write on this message board the more people realize that you are tied to the "toughness" of your dog, I would love to do psychological work up on you. It is truly sad that there are people like yourself who live through their dog and want their dog to be everything they can't be or are afraid to be. In my opinion you shouldn't even own a dog if you encourage and take pleasure in having an agressive dog. As cultures advance they no longer need their dogs to be killers. Welcome to the modern age.

You talk about "your" breeds being naturally aggressive and I have no idea what I am talking about. It sounds like your dogs have been in the company of people who like and encourage aggression so of course they will act that way. You even say you hope they never fall in the hands of Americans who might civilize them. I bet if you raise one of your Russian Macho dogs in a secure and relaxed but firm family you could raise him to be a fine dog. Don't blame genetics for your insecurities.

The first post I ever read of yours was how you bragged how your dog could kill three timberwolves at the same time.....lol. I think that sums you up completely. This is not meant to insult you but sense you wanted to attack my crediblity I think it is time someone points out your agenda and bias.


Way to go on personal attacks. It just futher proves my point. When people know they are wrong, alot resort to personal attacks, which are almost never true. So now you say that my dog is not loved and my family is raising him to be aggressive? I never said I encouraged aggression in my dog, infact if you read few posts in this thread, I mention that socializing and numbing the aggression is the way of life for a Caucasian in a city environment.

This post is just empty personal attacks with no valid information. Tells alot about what kind of person YOU are. Worry about your insecurities, I have nothing to be insecure about.

I never brag about my dog. I say facts. Fact being my dog could take on a wolf and win. That is a fact, dont believe a dog can kill a wolf? Well thats your opinion. Just know there are alot of large livestock guardians that are capable of taking on a wolf, not just my dog.

Please stop with personal attacks, or is it the only thing you are capable of?

[Amstaffer]

Way to go on personal attacks. It just futher proves my point. When people know they are wrong, alot resort to personal attacks, which are almost never true. So now you say that my dog is not loved and my family is raising him to be aggressive? I never said I encouraged aggression in my dog, infact if you read few posts in this thread, I mention that socializing and numbing the aggression is the way of life for a Caucasian in a city environment.

This post is just empty personal attacks with no valid information. Tells alot about what kind of person YOU are. Worry about your insecurities, I have nothing to be insecure about.

I never brag about my dog. I say facts. Fact being my dog could take on a wolf and win. That is a fact, dont believe a dog can kill a wolf? Well thats your opinion. Just know there are alot of large livestock guardians that are capable of taking on a wolf, not just my dog.

Please stop with personal attacks, or is it the only thing you are capable of?

Not personal attack but rather obsevations of you posts. You started with the attacks.

For anyone who cares our past posts will provide information about our knowledge and biases.

And you once posted you dog could kill THREE wolves at one time.

You have said that if your breed isn't aggressive it is poorly bred...That statement alone proves everything I posted.

OT....

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

[BigDog2191]

ADOPT PEOPLE..ADOPT...
As if there isn't already a bad enough population crisis in the States..people now also want to IMPORT more animals? DEAR LORD!!!



What are the laws like in Russia regarding breeding standards and animal welfare anyways oriondw...
I have friends from Russia that tell me alot of the dogs are chained outside and neglected...is this true?...that would concern me about the type of breeders that exist as well...I'm not saying that about you, but in general from what other people have told me...can you give us some details...

Um... people import, and have been doing so, to get certain bloodlines from reputable breeders. That's like discouraging somebody to not get from a serious, reputable breeder.

Not everybody wants to adopt. If I want to get a purebred German shepherd from German showlines, I'll find a breeder that breeds those types of German shepherds, and I'll buy it.

[oriondw]

Not personal attack but rather obsevations of you posts. You started with the attacks.

For anyone who cares our past posts will provide information about our knowledge and biases.

And you once posted you dog could kill THREE wolves at one time.

You have said that if your breed isn't aggressive it is poorly bred...That statement alone proves everything I posted.

OT....

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

Being aggressive and weary of strangers is breeds trait FYI.

three? been a while. I know dogs have done it. Couldnt say for sure if mine could, and i honestly dont care because there are no wolves around here.

[pitbulliest]

So why not look for a breeder in the country?

You won't be able to meet this person, you won't be able to meet the stock...the parents....etc...this is one of the most important aspects to finding a good dog from a good breeder

That's not the best way to look for a responsible breeder... o_O

[RD]

So why not look for a breeder in the country?

You won't be able to meet this person, you won't be able to meet the stock...the parents....etc...this is one of the most important aspects to finding a good dog from a good breeder

That's not the best way to look for a responsible breeder... o_O
Because in other countries, dogs often do not suffer the same problems that dogs of the same breed do in ours. In Papillons for example, many dogs in other countries do not suffer the high chance of luxating patellas or PRA. Wisely chosen imports can bring great improvements to the breeding programs in the U.S.

I wouldn't import a pet/not-for-breeding dog, it just doesn't seem worth it to me when there are good breeders in this country that could supply me with a nice companion.

[oriondw]

So why not look for a breeder in the country?

You won't be able to meet this person, you won't be able to meet the stock...the parents....etc...this is one of the most important aspects to finding a good dog from a good breeder

That's not the best way to look for a responsible breeder... o_O


I got my dog from a breeder in US.

But in all honesty dogs are of better quality over there.

The best dogs are in Georgia from actual herders, but they dont sell those. You have to earn a puppy as a gift. Im gonna travel there someday.

[mojozen]

I'm all for adopting, but for some people bringing over an import is the only way to get the dog of the breed they want. I've known of people who have gone over to europe specifically to find a representative of their dog's breed that is based off the european lineage because THAT's what they want.

The one more "famous" person I can think of is the writer and dog trainer Sarah Wilson who adopted one of her dogs from Germany after meeting him while on vacation there. Or at least I think it was Germany... I haven't read Tales from The Barkside in a while.

Also, I sense a cultural difference in oriondw and pitbulliest's conversation... cultural factors also have a big factor in how dogs are treated and raised. I know of many cultures (that are predominantly poor - think Asia Pacific, Africa, aborigines of Australia etc) who see dogs to be nothing more than personable working animals doing what many of the breeds were originally intended to do, whether that is drafting, guarding and herding flocks by their lonesome in the mountains, or hunting. Not everyone sees dogs as pet animals that should be doted on, and frankly I don't think everyone should.

I will admit I am at war with my ownself over this. Overall, dogs were intended to be working animals - not everyone can afford to give themselves luxuries much less the dogs that help them keep food on their table. (and isn't it true that sometimes the dog is the one luxiury the family even has?) Sometimes you have to look beyond the small picture - of oh that dog is being abused and exploited - to the larger picture of what's happening to it's family as well?

I suspect that this is how oriondw sees his dog, the dog is a working animal with very specifically bred character traits. Pitbulliest sees his/her dogs as pets that are to be doted on as much as I dote on my own pet dog.

Just my thoughts... not trying to offend anyone or speak for them at all.

[rottiegirl]

- I have 4 pitbulls, none of them are dog aggressive or human aggressive. I don't know where you got your info but the only dog aggressive pits I saw are the ones used in dog fighting. Believe me, its how you raise them up. There will be lots and lots of myths about our animals, but you'll really never get to know one unless you get to own one.
Merry Christmas Rottie. Wish I also have Golden Hair like you.
I have met many pit bulls! I have taken a class genetics and behaviour. The reason why there are a lot of pits out there that are not dog agressive is because dog fighting is not as popular as it used to be. Pits now days are being bred as family dogs and guard dogs, so breeders are unknowingly breeding out that characteristic (the dog aggression characteristic). Back in the day when the pit was used for fighting, most pits were dog agressive, because thats what they were bred for. That is why most bull terriers are dog friendly, its because they are not bred for dog fighting any more. Nature is 50% and nurture is 50%. And Merry Christmas to you too!!

[rottiegirl]

Without a doubt you could. My female was a rescue from a raid on a fighting ring. Her mother was pregant when the raid went down and she was born at the shelter 3 days later. She is very self confidenet with other dogs but is not aggressive (however I don't think she would ever back down from another dog). The only time she has come close to fighting with other dogs is when a 90lb+ GSD tried to mount her at the dog park. She showed lots of teeth and snapped at his neck but never broke skin. She only scared him. Can you blame her though :p

I think if you do any research on Psychology and behavior (I teach Psy to High School Students) you will find Genetics give you t