mantle or merle?

[corykins22]

im not really sure how to phrase the question to make sense....um, great danes that are spotted and sometimes have white on the chest and head, not the black and white spotted, the other colors brown, blue i think, and black. are they called mantles or merles? i think they are just gorgeous, i would like to own one some day.

[SummerRiot]

Harlequin is the colour name :)

[panzer426]

harlequin ( http://www.cntdanes.com/ ) is the name for the black and white spotted, a mantle ( http://arcticfoxranch.com/Mercedes.html ) great dane is a black and white with large black spots. the brown color with tiger stripe type pattern is called a brindle ( http://www.siscodanes.com/siscoS.htm )and is found in many mastiff breeds, dutch shepherds and bully breeds. a merle ( http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/australiancattledogphotos5.htm ) is like a australian cattle dog (also called a blue heeler or a red heeler) and in the australian shepherd and catahoula leopard dog. merle comes in blue or red. there is also such a thing as a blue merle great dane but the color is not accepted by the breed standards. here is a blue merle dane... http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/greatdane.htm the second one from the bottom named elvis.
by the way, I cannot and will not vouche for any breeders linked above, I linked them solely because I did a search for the colors each link represents and linked the first ones I found and/or the easiest to point to the picture desired.

[corykins22]

thanks!

so why arent blue merles accepted? how are they different, besides the obvious color? but why would that be a reason to not accept them?

[Mordy]

maybe this will help answer your question :)
http://www.ourdogsonline.com/index.php?section=37

[Zoom]

The merle is quite attractive, but I love the steel gray color of Danes the best.

[Ash47]

The only Dane I have ever met was a blue merle. Her name was Pegasus and she was such a darling.

[panzer426]

well, for a long time the only colors accepted were fawn, black, brindle, blue and harlequinn. mantle, also sometimes called boston, was only recently accepted, I think in the mid-late 90's. blue merle and white are the only colors still not accepted. I "think" even blue is a recently accepted color.
white is not accepted because white danes (like dobermans, boxers, and some other breeds) are a lot more prone to health problems. many white danes are blind and/or deaf.
I think the only reason for the blue merle danes not being accepted is because it "doesnt look as regal". possibly because they are more succeptible to health problems but when I had a female blue merle dane that I adopted my vet told me that it wasnt true. didnt get her through a breeder (reputable or otherwise) and dont know if my vet was an expert on great danes so not positive about that.
personally I like the brindle, black and blue the best on a dane but the merle (and other colors) are beautiful to me.

[Mordy]

i don't know about color acceptance in the US, but in germany (country of origin of the breed) the mantles fall into the category of black and have been accepted for a long time and blue is one of the original varieties. they are divided up as follows in germany:
- fawn and brindle
- harlequin and black (including mantle and a type that would roughly translate as "slab", which is a harlequin with very large black markings as opposed tot he regular smaller patches)
- blue

i grew up with a blue dane. best dog i've ever had. :)

[corykins22]

i think they are just beautiful! but, how would you go about finding one that isnt going to have the health problems? the article made it sound like a majority of them will have something wrong?

[panzer426]

a merle? merles are not very common because they are not accepted and reputable breeders avoid whenever possible the risk of producing merle pups. mine was adopted through "adopt a stray" when I lived in st louis missouri. she was estimated to be around 4-5 years old by my vet and around 2 years old by adopt a stray. she never had any health problems. I think there are a couple of great dane owners here who might know a few breeders, of course merles do sometimes show up in a litter so you mgiht be able to find one from a good breeder. some breeders will try to say merles and whites are rare and worth a lot more, thats not true.

[corykins22]

thanks, i learn so much from everyone on this forum! :D

[showpug]

Being a retired dane owner I can tell you that there are color ethics within the breed. Proper breeding practices will generally not result in a blue merle dane. If I remember correctly, it went like this :

Fawn and Brindles can be bred together
Black and Blue can be bred together - or black to black - or blue to blue
Harlequin can be bred to Harlequin or Black or Mantle

When I say blue, I mean a true blue great dane, one that is solid blue over the entire body. Blue merles usually show up when a harlequin is bred to a fawn or something like that. Blue merles and whites should not be bred...

[panzer426]

thanks showpug!!! I knew whites and merles were not accepted, desired or bred by reputable/responsible breeders but I didnt know how they came to be, which color to which color produced them. do you know if this is true? my vet told me (when I had my blue merle dane) that it can also be a dormant/recessive gene (I think is how he said it) in 2 fawns, or blacks or a fawn and brindle or whatever and they MIGHT produce a blue merle? he said it was rare and of course good breeders tried to avoid it but that sometimes a blue merle could be born to a normal litter.

[Cassiepeia]

Blue merles are excepted in Australia, but are called Harlequins (according to the ANKC standard).

Harlequins - pure white underground with preferably all black patches or all blue patches, having appearance of being torn.

It's interesting, actually, how different standards are from country to country. :)

Cass.