White Boxers

[Gallien Jacks]

Should they be bred? i know how i feel but what do you all think?

[Gallien Jacks]

Dont know how this happened can someone delite two of them for me

[Bowowee]

For a Boxer, they say that being white is a fault. I can't see why.

[Athebeau]

For Boxers white is not only a fault, it is unhealthy. When you see white boxers it can mean the line is being bred to close and need outcrossing. A white boxer is genetically unheathly and are normally cursed with many problems, including skin, allergies etc. Years ago breeders used to "hide" these mistakes by leaving the white pups to die, a white boxer pup gave a bad mark against a kennel name...so, a breeder would not sell them even as a pet quality as it may come back to haunt them. Now, it's scary that some people are seeing them as unique or rare:rolleyes:

[EliNHunter]

Are we talking about albino pups? Or just a whacky white pup situation?

[Athebeau]

I was just talking about "normal" brown eyed white coated Boxers:) . I know so many breeders who strive against breeding any white boxers due to health issues. I also know of some big hearted people who have either rescued a white boxer, or bought one (being told by an unethical breeder that white boxers are "rare":rolleyes: )...they all have a something in common...skin problems, allergies, suppressed immune system, auto immune disorders etc. etc. One girl I know has a list of thousands of items that her white boxer cannot tolerate, it's sad.

[Gallien Jacks]

From what I have learnt you cant get an albino boxer they just have a low pigmentation, i think its wrong to breed them but I don't think they should be killed either, I know someone that has bred one and they don't think they have done anything wrong:mad: I just cant get them to see it, they also said that boxers started out white? I asked them to show where they got this information and they haven't replied!

[bubbatd]

Don't breed , but if available, adopt and spay or neuter !

[Gallien Jacks]

Don't breed , but if available, adopt and spay or neuter !
Yep thats what i feel too, there are loads in rescues

[Twilight]

For Boxers white is not only a fault, it is unhealthy. When you see white boxers it can mean the line is being bred to close and need outcrossing. A white boxer is genetically unheathly and are normally cursed with many problems, including skin, allergies etc. Years ago breeders used to "hide" these mistakes by leaving the white pups to die, a white boxer pup gave a bad mark against a kennel name...so, a breeder would not sell them even as a pet quality as it may come back to haunt them. Now, it's scary that some people are seeing them as unique or rare:rolleyes:


totally disagree sorry to say
but 2 perfectly healthy RED boxers can produce white pups even if they are not related at all

[Boxer*Mom]

Here's a site that in their opinion bust myths about White Boxers, it's not long so check it out and see what you think!

http://www.boxerrescue.com/whiteboxer.htm

[Gallien Jacks]

Like they say there is a higher degree of defness in white boxers then colourds, but for me that is not the problem, If a dog cant be proven that it confurms to the standered then it shouldnt be bred from, and that is what this person is doing

[Twilight]

I dont agree in breeding white boxers but i do love white boxers just as much as any other colour boxer, and hope to own one some day

[Gallien Jacks]

I dont agree in breeding white boxers but i do love white boxers just as much as any other colour boxer, and hope to own one some day
Yep i would love one, and would be prepared to sope with a few probs also, they are wonderful dogs and i hope one day they are reconised by the KC

[Athebeau]

Well, I hope for all of you who want a white boxer in the future don't end up with the heartache and immune problems that every one I know that has one has gone through.

I would say this is even worse than designer dog breeds such as doodles. It makes me wonder why when these dogs are most times genetically inferior are so sought after. But, as long as they are recognized by a kennel club, then that makes it alright.

totally disagree sorry to say
but 2 perfectly healthy RED boxers can produce white pups even if they are not related at allQuote by Twilight

Twilight, it's a little difficult to have a purebred without inbreeding. When you close the stud book on a small population of dogs, you have no choice but to inbred/linebreed. In order to create most breeds and thier standard conformation they had to inbred to develop the breed. This is why it's so difficult to breed purebreds, theres not a whole lot of genetic diversity and genetic problems are so common.

[MOODYGIRL]

For Boxers white is not only a fault, it is unhealthy. When you see white boxers it can mean the line is being bred to close and need outcrossing. A white boxer is genetically unheathly and are normally cursed with many problems, including skin, allergies etc. Years ago breeders used to "hide" these mistakes by leaving the white pups to die, a white boxer pup gave a bad mark against a kennel name...so, a breeder would not sell them even as a pet quality as it may come back to haunt them. Now, it's scary that some people are seeing them as unique or rare:rolleyes:

Yes this is true.

[Boxerowner]

From what I have learnt you cant get an albino boxer they just have a low pigmentation, i think its wrong to breed them but I don't think they should be killed either, I know someone that has bred one and they don't think they have done anything wrong:mad: I just cant get them to see it, they also said that boxers started out white? I asked them to show where they got this information and they haven't replied!


Sorry this thread is little old! I did reply so did other members of the forum!!!:mad: White boxers are not more sickly and they did start out white. White Boxers are not albino, not rare, just a normal Boxer that is white. Go look up white Boxer History on the net an educate yourselves.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Anyone breeding boxers, no matter how responsible, can end up with white puppies in their whelping box.

What people DO with these white puppies determines what type of breeder they are.

Responsible breeders who care about their breed, and steward it for the future, will require the spay/neuter of any white puppies, and any puppies who are more than 30% white, as this is not allowed according to the breed standard.

People who do not require the S/N of white boxer puppies, or puppies who have excessive white, do not care about the future or the health of the breed.

People who breed boxers who are more than 30% white are not stewarding their breed, and are ignoring the breed standard.

So what if they started out white. Every breed standard world wide frowns upon boxers that are more than 30% white, including the FCI standard, which is the standard of Germany, the country of origin.

Rottweilers started out a variety of colors too. That is simply an excuse for pups for bucks greed breeders to breed dogs who do not meet the breed standard who should not be bred.

[SummerRiot]

I have heard of the "white boxers have problems" myth before.

I dont know much about the Boxer breed but I know that a white pup can be generated from any two partners. I have met three white boxers recently and I had asked each owner if they have any medical problems. Only one out of the three have food allergies and tend to get "colds" in the winter time.
Also, one of the three also had a brown spot about an apple size on his head.. I assume that one spot sort of breaks the myth of an "all white" boxer though eh??

[Boxerowner]

Anyone breeding boxers, no matter how responsible, can end up with white puppies in their whelping box.

What people DO with these white puppies determines what type of breeder they are.

Responsible breeders who care about their breed, and steward it for the future, will require the spay/neuter of any white puppies, and any puppies who are more than 30% white, as this is not allowed according to the breed standard.

People who do not require the S/N of white boxer puppies, or puppies who have excessive white, do not care about the future or the health of the breed.

People who breed boxers who are more than 30% white are not stewarding their breed, and are ignoring the breed standard.

So what if they started out white. Every breed standard world wide frowns upon boxers that are more than 30% white, including the FCI standard, which is the standard of Germany, the country of origin.

Rottweilers started out a variety of colors too. That is simply an excuse for pups for bucks greed breeders to breed dogs who do not meet the breed standard who should not be bred.


O so now im greedy and only wanna make money and dont care about the Boxer breed! Hmmm..... sorry but i dont think im gonna make lots of money i will loose money. I did not breed my white boxer to get more whites. I am expecting beautiful show quality puppies and if i get 2 whites that great they will go to pet homes only.

[Boxerowner]

I have heard of the "white boxers have problems" myth before.

I dont know much about the Boxer breed but I know that a white pup can be generated from any two partners. I have met three white boxers recently and I had asked each owner if they have any medical problems. Only one out of the three have food allergies and tend to get "colds" in the winter time.
Also, one of the three also had a brown spot about an apple size on his head.. I assume that one spot sort of breaks the myth of an "all white" boxer though eh??


A white boxer should have even if very small a patch of fawn or brindle somewhere on their body. That spot would be the color that they are or should have been. My Boxer is 2 1/2 if the myth was true when is she supposed to get sick?LOL

[RedyreRottweilers]

You are starting out breeding dogs who are disqualified according to the breed standard.

Sorry, but you won't get far that way, and you won't get show prospect puppies from pet quality dogs.

What sort of health testing do you do before breeding?

[Boxerowner]

Dont you worry your lil head her tests have been done!

[Boxerowner]

Why would i not get show quality pups the only fault she has is she is white!?!?

[Dizzy]

I think is is all mixed up anyway. Show 'standards' don't mean much...

i.e. - Dalmations with blue eyes here is a fault, there is fine... etc etc...

Whatever takes the countries fancy it seems. Give me my mutt anyday ;)

[Boxerowner]

I think is is all mixed up anyway. Show 'standards' don't mean much...

i.e. - Dalmations with blue eyes here is a fault, there is fine... etc etc...

Whatever takes the countries fancy it seems. Give me my mutt anyday ;)



I love your mutt!!! What kind is he/she?

[Bichonmum]

I don't see what the problem is personally.

Some of the first foundation dogs were white, that is a fact.

Not all of them are deaf, the risk is slightly increased but not by too much. The majority aren't deaf at all.

There is no proof to say they are more unhealthy.

And just because they can't be shown in conformation doesn't mean they can't be registered still.

So what's the problem? If the person is responsible and already have pet homes lined up for any white puppies then surely they are entitled to breed them. It is a personal choice after all and not really anyone else's business.

I would understand if it was a serious health concern but it isn't.

That's just my opinion. :)

[tessa_s212]

If a color poses health risk and/or can cause them like the white color in boxers can do, then they should not be bred. Increasing health problems in a breed is NOT improving the breed as a whole, and should not be done.

[Bichonmum]

But around 20% of Boxer births are white anyway and of that 20%, only about 10% are deaf. There is nothing to say that they will be deaf.
And even if they were they still make great pets, if they are going to pet quality homes anyway that would be their purpose, they can do that wonderfully.
Why should it be a problem?
Well bred white boxers have healthy lives, the average life span is around 12-14 years which is the SAME as the non-white Boxers.
They suffer from the same problems as fawns and brindles do the only difference is that they are more sensitive to the sun, I'm sure that the good breeders would already have owners in mind that are aware of this.
I honestly don't think it is that bad, there can still be the possibility of show quality pups within the litter which would be improving the breed anyway.
There are far worse breeding practices going on. Breeding a white Boxer is not as terrible as it is made out to be.
The simple fact is that a lot of the myths are just that! There is no truth to most of it! :)

[bubbatd]

I see nothing wrong in adopting and loving a white boxer ... then spay or neuter it.

[Boxerowner]

But around 20% of Boxer births are white anyway and of that 20%, only about 10% are deaf. There is nothing to say that they will be deaf.
And even if they were they still make great pets, if they are going to pet quality homes anyway that would be their purpose, they can do that wonderfully.
Why should it be a problem?
Well bred white boxers have healthy lives, the average life span is around 12-14 years which is the SAME as the non-white Boxers.
They suffer from the same problems as fawns and brindles do the only difference is that they are more sensitive to the sun, I'm sure that the good breeders would already have owners in mind that are aware of this.
I honestly don't think it is that bad, there can still be the possibility of show quality pups within the litter which would be improving the breed anyway.
There are far worse breeding practices going on. Breeding a white Boxer is not as terrible as it is made out to be.
The simple fact is that a lot of the myths are just that! There is no truth to most of it! :)


Bichonmum Thank you! Boxers in general have health issuse. White Boxers are just like anyother white dog like Dal and Jacks. Deafness in a Boxer is the same likelyhood in a Dalmation.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I'm all for rescuing a white boxer. I don't agree with breeding them. I have met boxers and I think they're a wonderful breed. I'd love to rescue one in the future.

[Gallien Jacks]

Bichonmum Thank you! Boxers in general have health issuse. White Boxers are just like anyother white dog like Dal and Jacks. Deafness in a Boxer is the same likelyhood in a Dalmation.
Sorry but I have to disagree with that Jacks are suposed to to 51% or more white and Boxers are not, I love them and yes a white can come out of any litter, but they should be pets only, i have always wanted a white one because I love their look

[RedyreRottweilers]

The problem is that no responsible breeder breeds animals who do not meet the breed standard.

No one with a male dog of any consequence is going to breed to your white bitch.

So you will not be able to tap into the excellent blood lines out there to try to breed "up" your bitch.

No one would have sold you any breeding stock, either, without strings attached and a contract stating you are not to breed WHITE BOXERS, so it's impossible that you have acquired a bitch to use for breeding from any sort of responsible source.

Boxers are not supposed to be white.

If you CHOOSE to breed white boxers, you are, by definition, a high risk breeder who is putting personal goals before the welfare of your chosen breed.

There is a right way to breed dogs, and it does not include contaminating the gene pool with animals who are of an undesired or disallowed color.

You can be quite sure that the founders of the breed had good reason for making too much white undesireable in that breed, whether they started with white or not.

They started with some black dogs in Golden Retrievers too, does that make it ok to breed black goldens?

The breed standard(s) are there for a reason.

If you choose to ignore them, that is not something we can control, but don't come here and be surprised that you are pegged as an irresponsible person who is uneducated in what breeding is supposed to be about when you fit the mold perfectly.

And if she IS tested, WHAT testing have you had done? And what of the sire?

[Dizzy]

Sorry, but breeding to standards does not necessarily 'better' the breed.

Look at bulldogs, pugs, pekingese etc and the problems they have BECAUSE of the stupid standards. Breathing problems, squashed faces. That is the standard - a pushed up nose. Impossible to have it without breathing problems.

Docked tail is a standard, as is cropped ears... Hardly 'improving the breed'. Aesthetics. It is a standard - should you begin to breed only dogs with pointy ears and short tails? It is a standard, so why not?!

Unless a dog is worked, and had a purpose, the 'bettering the breed' rubbish is useless except for aesthetics and old tradition.

If it weren't for the DEMAND of pedigree dogs, there would be no mills. If it weren't for people wanting pedigrees there would be no BYB. If it weren't for pedigree dogs, there would be alot less genetic defaults.

A LOT of you are hypocritical. ALL breeders have a lot to answer for.

I love all dogs, big, small, fat, thin, PEDIGREE, mutt.

Instead of bickering amongst yourselves, do something productive.

Use all your breath/typing energy, to petition for animal rights, save a forest, help starving children.

[tessa_s212]

Dizzy, I respect you very much, but name calling will only make matters worse on this thread.

Coudln't agree more with Dizzy's sentence:

"Unless a dog is worked, and had a purpose, the 'bettering the breed' rubbish is useless except for aesthetics and old tradition."

Standards are merely only that, an old tradition. And it is sad that some truly think AKC is god and you HAVE to stick to breed standards to be improving the breed. Heck, what is improving the breed to one person, is killing the breed in other's eyes. (For example, the many breeds that are split into "show" and "working" bred, you'd often hear the working dog breeders say conformation is horrible and disgusting thing to do to a dog.)

With that said, white boxers still should not be bred. IMO, it is not because it is breeding away from standard, but only because it CAN AND DOES cause HEALTH problems. If you still think it is alright to purposely breed unhealthy dogs, how about you take my dogs for a while. How about YOU have to clean up Pepper's bloody, mucousy, painful diahhrea due to her ulcers. How about YOU pay for the surgeries, and then care for her 24/7 after them. How about YOU having to see her suffer from the pain.

[Dizzy]

Sorry, I don't think I have name called...

:)

Just making my opinion known, adding to the debate!

Feel free to discuss my points! Disagree, agree, whatever!

[Ash47]

Dizzy, I respect you very much, but name calling will only make matters worse on this thread.

Coudln't agree more with Dizzy's sentence:

"Unless a dog is worked, and had a purpose, the 'bettering the breed' rubbish is useless except for aesthetics and old tradition."

Standards are merely only that, an old tradition. And it is sad that some truly think AKC is god and you HAVE to stick to breed standards to be improving the breed. Heck, what is improving the breed to one person, is killing the breed in other's eyes. (For example, the many breeds that are split into "show" and "working" bred, you'd often hear the working dog breeders say conformation is horrible and disgusting thing to do to a dog.)

With that said, white boxers still should not be bred. IMO, it is not because it is breeding away from standard, but only because it CAN AND DOES cause HEALTH problems. If you still think it is alright to purposely breed unhealthy dogs, how about you take my dogs for a while. How about YOU have to clean up Pepper's bloody, mucousy, painful diahhrea due to her ulcers. How about YOU pay for the surgeries, and then care for her 24/7 after them. How about YOU having to see her suffer from the pain.
I agree with everything you say here! White boxers are ok to love, but not ok to breed.

[smkie]

here is what i know about white..my boss wanted a white lab.never bred for them specifically the only time he tried the two females were sterile..The heavens above have a way of telling us something..most white lab puppies..i only saw a few were born dead. And then there is my Bronki. He was the only "white" one in the litter of german shorthair/labrador cross. The sun hurt his skin..and tho he was my best dog ever, and i loved him beyond and across the top. cancer took him at 7. White is fragile, any vet would tell you that. Except in certain breeds where white is the dominate, not the exception. Before you bring a pup into this world to invest your heart so deeply, give him the best chance possible at a long life. They are given to us to care for and they are here for such a short time, lets not make it any shorter and cause them pain and suffering.

[fillyone]

The problem is that no responsible breeder breeds animals who do not meet the breed standard.

No one with a male dog of any consequence is going to breed to your white bitch.

So you will not be able to tap into the excellent blood lines out there to try to breed "up" your bitch.

No one would have sold you any breeding stock, either, without strings attached and a contract stating you are not to breed WHITE BOXERS, so it's impossible that you have acquired a bitch to use for breeding from any sort of responsible source.

Boxers are not supposed to be white.

If you CHOOSE to breed white boxers, you are, by definition, a high risk breeder who is putting personal goals before the welfare of your chosen breed.

There is a right way to breed dogs, and it does not include contaminating the gene pool with animals who are of an undesired or disallowed color.

You can be quite sure that the founders of the breed had good reason for making too much white undesireable in that breed, whether they started with white or not.

They started with some black dogs in Golden Retrievers too, does that make it ok to breed black goldens?

The breed standard(s) are there for a reason.

If you choose to ignore them, that is not something we can control, but don't come here and be surprised that you are pegged as an irresponsible person who is uneducated in what breeding is supposed to be about when you fit the mold perfectly.

And if she IS tested, WHAT testing have you had done? And what of the sire?
http://www.gsdworld.net/invboard/html/emoticons/thumbup.gif

[smkie]

didn't i say the same thing...white will break your heart..that particular white white..Bronki was like that..i don't say this to be mean or know it all i say it because i lost my best best best friend..at SEVEN!!!!! for the very reason that white boxers are not encouraged...they are not as strong and you will fall in love and that love will be yanked away from you long before thier time..and they will suffer unecessarily..don't do that to a puppy, tis just wrong. love your white boxer..be very very careful with what you feed and for pete sake keep the dog out of the sun..maybe you will be a lucky one and not lose your best friend in a few years.

[Gallien Jacks]

I just hope those who have already bred white boxers will not do it again for the sake of the pups

[bubbatd]

If you have one, love it to death...and don't breed them.

[groominggal]

This discussion reminds me of a newpaper ad I saw in the paper in the puppy section. Someone was selling a little of standard poodle pups solid color ones for $500. After that line, they had written "RARE particolored! Only $650! Really made me want to call that "breeder" and ask why she would dare try to sell an unrecongized color for MORE than a dog of a recongnized color!

[Gwinnywillow]

Breed Standards are vital for maintaining the ability to recognize a breed. And the breed standard is the schematic for how each dog should be constructed in line with the function of the breed. A breed standard is designed to maintain the structure and performance of each breed and to insure its health.

And AKC has nothing to do with breed standards. That is the job of each individual breed club.

[minismom]

I dunno about breeding the white boxer, but I do know not ALL white boxers are unhealthy. I have a white boxer for a granddog and she is NOT deaf and IS very healthy. She has a cleft lip, not pallet just lip, and has seperation anxiety and that is the exstint of her problems. She can go out in the sun and have a great time. Her skin turns a little pink but she has never burned or had trouble with it. And she doesn't have any allergies that we know of. She is 3 years old. She is also a registered boxer with akc

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/minismom/Ashley6.jpg

[RedyreRottweilers]

White boxers happen.

They should all have good responsible homes.

They should not be used for breeding.

[Gallien Jacks]

I dunno about breeding the white boxer, but I do know not ALL white boxers are unhealthy. I have a white boxer for a granddog and she is NOT deaf and IS very healthy. She has a cleft lip, not pallet just lip, and has seperation anxiety and that is the exstint of her problems. She can go out in the sun and have a great time. Her skin turns a little pink but she has never burned or had trouble with it. And she doesn't have any allergies that we know of. She is 3 years old. She is also a registered boxer with akc

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/minismom/Ashley6.jpg
its the same for all breeds, the standerds are there for a reason and should be followed, I know you love your dog, but a cleft lip is a birth defect a lot of the time this is caused but byb, and sometimes its not, we are not saying all white boxers are unhealthy but they shouldnt be bred

[Gwinnywillow]

its the same for all breeds, the standerds are there for a reason and should be followed, I know you love your dog, but a cleft lip is a birth defect a lot of the time this is caused but byb, and sometimes its not, we are not saying all white boxers are unhealthy but they shouldnt be bred

To answer the original question, NO white boxers should not be bred. The white color gene also carries "fatal" genetic abnormalities......such as deafness. No one should ever deliberately breed known defects, or anything that carries a known defect. Yeah, white dogs happen, but that is by a genetic crap shoot. Deliberately breeding dogs known to carry these problems is unethical, and very detrimental to the breed.....whether it be Boxers, Collies or any other breed.

[bubbatd]

Having a wonderful grandson with Down Syndrome, he is not from " bad breeding ".... if he marries a girl with Down Syndrome it would be great ! ( Many do today ) But, should they " breed " ??

[Gallien Jacks]

personally I dont put people in the same boat as dogs, we are in charge of out decisions and dogs are not they do not ask to be bred

[bubbatd]

You're right ... but it's is a genetic disorder and in both cases it's up to the caregivers ( breeders or parents) to make the wise decission . In both cases it's 50 % chance of faults being passed on. I love my grandson ... people love their white boxers. As much as I love Nash, who doesn't have the health issues many with DS do , I wouldn't want him to " sire" a child with Ds with the health problems most have. I just wanted to compare " fairy land " to reality.

[Gallien Jacks]

yes i understna dwhere you are comming from, its the quality of life of the child that i would be worried about, and its the same with dogs like you said its a 50% chance

[Boxerowner]

Well my very unhealthy white Boxer had 8 very sickly pups!Im sure that Gallien Jacks will tell ya'll all about them.

[Gallien Jacks]

Well my very unhealthy white Boxer had 8 very sickly pups!Im sure that Gallien Jacks will tell ya'll all about them.
here you go again, they are what 3 days old? how do you know they will grow up with no probs at all, i hope they are very healthy and happy pups, but that doesnt make it any better, i am tired of being nice to you, you seem to just want to cause troubble! I have not said anything bad about you and your dogs, just because I said you shouldnt breed white boxers you have decided to have a go, grow up and if you are here to be part of this forum then post in other topics and not just mine!

[Boxerowner]

I did post in other ! so u grow up!

[Gallien Jacks]

Only one which shows what you came here for!

[RedyreRottweilers]

Well my very unhealthy white Boxer had 8 very sickly pups!Im sure that Gallien Jacks will tell ya'll all about them.

And what is that supposed to prove?

How many whites do you have?

At what age do you plan to do BAER testing?

What will you do with bilaterally deaf puppies? Unilaterals?

How is your particular breeding supposed to contribute to the gene pool and the welfare of your chosen breed?

Have you Holter tested either of the parents of the litter?

CERF? How about OFA?

You have proven one thing, for sure.

You can breed your bitch.

Whether it is or is NOT in the best interest of your breed.

[Boxerowner]

1. None of your business
2. None of your business
3. None of your business, ECT.

[RedyreRottweilers]

1. None of your business
2. None of your business
3. None of your business, ECT.

Typical high risk ignorant back yard breeder response.

I am sorry for your breed. I truly am.

[Saje]

I'm confused Boxerowner. You come here and accuse gallien jacks of being a bad breeder and ask her about her breeding practises but when people question you you say it's none of your business? :confused: You are new here. Are you sure you don't want to share?

[Boxerowner]

I am willing to share to ppl that r willing to listen

[Saje]

I think everyone feels that way.

[Bichonmum]

I've stated my opinions earlier in the thread so I won't go into all the details again. I am against all irresponsible breeding but I do believe that when done correctly a White Boxer can produce healthy offspring without problems.

That being said I don't think people and dogs should be compared in such a way and I also believe that if a person with Down Syndrome wants to "sire" a child they have every right to! I find those comments incredibly offensive as I know people who suffer from that and they would really resent such comments. I'm not going to get into that any further either but I will say that when society gives them a chance they can lead full and happy lives. Some may see it as unfair but the people I know with Down Syndrome are way happier in general! That is silly and offensive to make comparisons like that and I'm sorry if that is harsh but it is the way I feel.

There are soooooooooooo many bad breeding practices out there that I don't understand how breeding White Boxers can be considered one of the worst. If we were talking true albinos then I would agree 110 % and bad breeders in general I would also agree but White Boxers with a responsible breeder can be just fine!

Congrats on your litter Boxerowner, I'm sorry that you are getting such judgemental comments. When I read through the posts I realised that someone was talking about you before you were even a member and I think you have every right to stand up for yourself. Good luck in the future!

[Boxerowner]

listen this thread was started about me so i do have a right i comment. atleast i can speak for myself that my dog has papers Does Gallien Jacks! NO. Did she breed a really bad temp dog! yes! She breed her dog at what 16 months thats wrong. I do have a right to post what is the truth i do but it just get erased. So no if ppl dont wanna listen here then it is none of anyones business.

[Gallien Jacks]

No, I didn't breed a bad tempered dog! No, she isn't registered with the pedigree register she is a working dog so is with the working register, Jacks haven't been recognised by the kennel club for very long even though they have been around for years they come from a long line of working dogs, which i would not of got from a pedigree registered Parson terrier! Yes, she was 16 months, a small dog matures much quicker then a large breed and all the Jack breeders that i meet at shows breed their dogs on the 4-5 heat she was on her 4th, you got your posts erased because they were nasty! Yes, I have already told you that this was about your dog, but at what point did I post your name etc? i didn't you are the only one who wants trouble! You can get registered dogs that are a very bad example of the breed and full of defects does this mean they should be bred from? no!

[RedyreRottweilers]

What makes you any different? You are breeding dogs who are of a disallowed undesireable color that is often associated with health issues.

You refuse to divulge your health testing information.

You refuse in a smart aleck way to answer reasonable questions that any responsible breeder would be DELIGHTED to answer.

You can in NO WAY stand in the shoes of ANY responsible breeder, using untitled dogs for breeding of disallowed and undesireable colors.

[RD]

I am willing to share to ppl that r willing to listen
I'm willing to listen. :) Why don't you tell us a bit about yourself and your dog, why you are breeding, etc? We all know Gallien and we know her breeding practices, but we don't know you and yours.

[Boxerowner]

I think you really need to learn to read The white is not associated with unhealthy Boxers! The only reason its not a standard color is because when guarding they were to easily seen thats the reason and only reason!

[Boxerowner]

I'm willing to listen. :) Why don't you tell us a bit about yourself and your dog, why you are breeding, etc? We all know Gallien and we know her breeding practices, but we don't know you and yours.


You sure do know me! What are you like 16 anyway what would you know?

[Saje]

You sure do know me! What are you like 16 anyway what would you know?

What? I'm not sure this makes sense in regards to RD's comment and I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that 16-year-olds don't know anything.

[nedim]

You sure do know me! What are you like 16 anyway what would you know?

Back up.


I dont ever want to hear a comment like that on this forum. This is a public forum, get with the program.

[Boxerowner]

Holter Monitor, Cardiac Auscultation, Doppler Echocardiogram, OFA Heart:, OFA Hips, OFA Thyroid, CERF! All clear anyone have anyother problems

[Boxerowner]

Im sorry for that comment!

[RD]

You sure do know me! What are you like 16 anyway what would you know?
You'd be surprised. I don't particularly think that you -are- sorry, but it's okay. I'm used to people being rude to me due to my age although I greatly appreciate those who are not.

And I know who you are, but certainly don't know anything about you or your dog.

edit: See, that's all we wanted to know.

[Gallien Jacks]

Holter Monitor, Cardiac Auscultation, Doppler Echocardiogram, OFA Heart:, OFA Hips, OFA Thyroid, CERF! All clear anyone have anyother problems
its not possiable to have clear tests, no dog ever has perfect hips ect its done by scores, and isnt thr OFA Thyroid done after 4 years of age?

[RD]

its not possiable to have clear tests, no dog ever has perfect hips ect its done by scores
That is true, I would imagine by 'clear' she means 'passed', I don't know a lot about heart testing (I have a friend heavily involved in the Boxer breed though, i could ask her.) but I think there is a pass/fail mark to them as well.. Correct me if Im wrong.

[RedyreRottweilers]

So then it's a historical issue related to the original purpose of the breed for not breeding white boxers, of which you are clearly aware.

Why are you breeding them again?

What about Holter testing?

[RedyreRottweilers]

So then give us the link to her OFA page.

[RedyreRottweilers]

Oh, here's mine....

http://www.offa.org/results.html?all=Eternal+Moon+Finders+Keepers&x=0&y=0

[Gallien Jacks]

Holter Monitor: A 24-hour EKG (electrocardiogram) that tests for the presence of PVCs (Premature Ventricular Contractions). This test screens for Boxer Arrythmic Cardiomyopathy, and should be repeated yearly. There is, at this time, no set number of PVCs that would be considered "affected" with BAC. A zero or low number of PVCs does not mean that the dog is free of BAC, it only means that the dog was not exhibiting PVCs during that 24-hour period. However, consistent zero/low readings on yearly Holtering would indicate a higher possibility that the dog is not affected with BAC.
I hadent herd of this before, well its not required in my breed, but this is what I found out about it so far, is this correct RedyreRottweilers

[RedyreRottweilers]

Yes. A stunning number of Boxers die at a young age (before age 8) of Cardiac issues.

Testing AND FULL DISCLOSURE is very important in Boxers if a breeder cares about the future of the breed, and the puppies they are producing.

[Gallien Jacks]

Yes. A stunning number of Boxers die at a young age (before age 8) of Cardiac issues.

Testing AND FULL DISCLOSURE is very important in Boxers if a breeder cares about the future of the breed, and the puppies they are producing.
thanks for the info, i guess that I am lucky having a breed that doesnt get so many health probs

[yuckaduck]

1. None of your business
2. None of your business
3. None of your business, ECT.
Wow you had no problems jumping all over Gallien for breeding and bad mouthing her. Huumm pot calling the kettle black big time.

You bred a white boxer? Lady you have nothing to say about anyone's breeding because you are the worst. Breeding completely out of standard and irresponsible at the greatest extent.

[yuckaduck]

Should they be bred? i know how i feel but what do you all think?
This is the very first post and Boxerowner states that this is a thread about her. Where does it say anything about you in that single comment? You must feel really guilty because you sure jump at nothing. Or do you hear voices in your head too?

[RedyreRottweilers]

This is the very first post and Boxerowner states that this is a thread about her. Where does it say anything about you in that single comment? You must feel really guilty because you sure jump at nothing. Or do you hear voices in your head too?

I'm sorry, but that is totally uncalled for.

Impugning someone's breeding ethics is one thing.

Accusing them of mental illness is another.

For shame.

Let it be about the dogs, as it should be, and not PERSONAL.

[yuckaduck]

I'm sorry, but that is totally uncalled for.

Impugning someone's breeding ethics is one thing.

Accusing them of mental illness is another.

For shame.

Let it be about the dogs, as it should be, and not PERSONAL.


Give me a break! This person has followed a member here who happens to be a very good friend from forum to forum, accusing her of bad breeding. Even going so far as to lie and say she was banned due to unethical breeding. When someone takes the time to stalk another person it is no longer about the dogs.:rolleyes:

[Gallien Jacks]

yes i agree, she made it personal a long time ago

[RedyreRottweilers]

Yuckaduck, and that gives you license to post insulting derogatory personal remarks such as the ones above?

I think not. If you have a problem with someone, use the ignore button, or contact admin.

This is NO PLACE for such ignorant insulting and inflammatory comments.

[Boxerowner]

Yes I meant clear – as in passed – clear to breed from etc.

I don’t think I should have to explain myself to any of you but I will elaborate on the testing which has been done.

The Holter Monitor is as stated a 24 hour electrocardiogram that tests for the presence of Premature Ventricular Contractions. It screens for Boxer Arrythmic Cardiomyopathy and it is one of those tests that should be done yearly, which is of course my intent and has been done so far. My dog has had reliable low readings so far and they told me that it is a promising indication that there is a higher likelihood that she is not affected with Boxer Arrythmic Cardiomyopathy. But it isn’t an exact thing; it should be done yearly and can’t be taken as absolutely correct. However I chose to do it as a precautionary measure and was strongly advised to by other breeders I have spoken to.

The Cardiac Auscultation is an examination of the heart done by a stethoscope. It identifies murmurs that might be suggestion of possible Aortic stenosis.
My dog had NO murmur when done at over a year old. I was told that any dog found with either no murmur or a grade one murmur upon auscultation after 12 months of age is considered normal and fine for breeding.

The Doppler Echocardiogram was an ultrasound of her heart. It is suppose to detect abnormal flow velocities and it also aids the diagnosis of Aortic Stenosis.
My dog had a clear Doppler and I was told it is considered conclusive.

The OFA Heart test was certified as normal. It was performed by a board-certified veterinary cardiologist (as were the others for heart testing)

For the OFA Hips she had an X-ray of her joint (pelvic to be specific) to screen for hip dysplasia. She rated Excellent and was considered to be free of Hip Dysplasia.

For OFA Thyroid she had a blood test to detect autoimmune thyroiditis. It is another of the tests that should be done yearly until 4 years of age and then every other year after that. She has tested negative for that but unfortunately it does not guarantee that she will never develop thyroiditis. So far so good though!!

And the CERF testing screens for heritable eye diseases like Progessive Retinal Atrophy. It also gets repeated yearly.

Now that I have gotten that out of the way I hope it makes things slightly clear. Although I doubt it will because before I was even a member here people were bashing me for my breeding practices.

I know breeding white Boxers is considered bad by some people but trust me I have done my research on this and I don’t think it’s wrong. There are many common misconceptions out there and I have tried to clear some of them but when people won’t listen or are not interested in listening there isn’t much I can do. I want to make it known that the Sire of this litter also had all these tests done and was cleared or passed or scored acceptable for breeding, whatever you like to call it.

You can call me an irresponsible breeder if you want to but I’m not! I have done these tests, they are registered (yes I’m aware that the white pups can't be shown in conformation but they are still registered and they can be shown in obedience!) I want what is best for these dogs. I am very hopeful that I will have show quality pups here and you can disbelieve it if you wish again it is your choice. I believe I have done things right and I stick by my decision to breed my dog, I am very happy with the results and I can guarantee you that these pups will be very loved, they will have great homes and I will make sure that they are always well taken care of. You have no need to worry about this, I am responsible!

I have never seen Gallien Jacks ever provide information of her breeding practises or reasons. I have never seen her list the tests, and she has admitted that she bred at 16 months. Now everyone here that knows about breeding should be aware that proper testing can not be carried out until after 2 years. That to me indicates that proper testing was not carried out with her dogs. I don’t have friends here to back me up and I don’t expect any of you to listen but that is fine with me. I have tried to make my side a bit clearer and if it still doesn’t work then so be it.

While on the topic of posts that started this, does anyone remember this:
“From what I have learnt you cant get an albino boxer they just have a low pigmentation, i think its wrong to breed them but I don't think they should be killed either, I know someone that has bred one and they don't think they have done anything wrong I just cant get them to see it, they also said that boxers started out white? I asked them to show where they got this information and they haven't replied!”

That is about me and it simply wasn’t true! I had given her my answers and so had other people yet she chose to talk behind my back. It’s fine for her to do this but when I state FACTS and TRUTHS I get attacked.

[RedyreRottweilers]

CODE OF ETHICS
American Boxer Club

This CODE OF ETHICS is set forth to protect, advance the interests of, and improve the Boxer breed; to maintain sportsmanlike competition at dog shows and events; and to promote a respect for people and dogs. American Boxer Club members are to adhere to these canons when breeding, buying, selling or competing with and exhibiting their Boxers.

Members of the American Boxer Club will conduct themselves in such a manner as to reflect credit on the sport of purebred dogs and on Boxers in particular, regardless of the location or circumstances.

AKC Rules and Regulations and THE AMERICAN BOXER CLUB BY-LAWS should be known and adhered to at all times. It is important to know the current Standard of the Breed.

ARTICLE I
Breeding

1. Breed only with the intention of improving the breed.
2. Breeders should encourage the certifying of hips, blood testing for thyroid function, and screening for heart defects and other abnormalities that would affect the health of their dogs or the offspring of same, in conjunction with the current Health & Research Committee recommendations.
3. Breed healthy, sound, typey dogs that display sound temperament and qualities and are free of severe faults.
4. Dogs offered at stud should be in good health. They should be free from Canine Brucellosis and other communicable diseases as well as disqualifying genetic faults. A written Stud Contract is essential. Monorchids are not considered breeding stock.
5. Bitches accepted for stud service should be at least eighteen months of age, in good health, free from communicable diseases and disqualifying genetic faults. A bitch must be accompanied by a current veterinarian's certificate stating that she is free of Canine Brucellosis. It is the responsibility of the stud dog owner to properly provide for all visiting bitches' safety and security. Each bitch must be bred only to the stud dog specified by her owner. A change of stud dog is only permitted with the express consent of the owner of the bitch and should be included as an amendment to the Stud Contract.
6. Bitches should be bred only between the ages of eighteen months and six years and should not whelp more than twice in any three consecutive estrus cycles.
7. Breeders will keep accurate breeding records, registration papers, pedigrees and contracts.

ARTICLE II
Maintenance

1. Tail docking and removal of dew claws are appropriate for the breed; ears may be cropped or uncropped. Any surgical procedures are to be performed humanely. Corrective cosmetic surgery will not be performed on Boxers. When such corrective surgery becomes a necessity, the dog will no longer be exhibited, if such alteration is not in accordance with stated AKC policies.
2. Members of The American Boxer Club will maintain their Boxers' condition, health and quarters in a manner that is above reproach.

ARTICLE III
Registration
There are two ways to register puppies for the first time with the AKC registration application.

1. Full Registration
Boxers who are sound, healthy, typey, considered to be of breeding quality, and who are free of disqualifying faults under the Standard of the Breed may be provided with full registration.

2. Limited Registration
American Boxer Club Members are encouraged to provide limited registration for the following:
1. Boxers being purchased only as registered companion pets.
2. Boxers that are not considered sound, or not of breeding quality, including monorchids.
3. Boxers of any color not allowed by the standard. Such a Boxer will be placed on a contract, to be signed and a copy retained by all parties, that includes the following provisions:
1. Limited registration will be provided upon completion of a spay/neuter.
2. The new owner will give the breeder a deposit to cover the amount of spay/neuter. This deposit will be returned upon presentation of a certification from a veterinarian that the procedure has taken place.
3. The breeder may charge veterinary expenses directly related to the puppy.

Buyers should be informed, where limited AKC registration is involved, that any get of their Boxer will be ineligible for AKC registration. The breeder of the dog can cancel the limited registration, should the puppy at maturity be considered of breeding quality. Providing limited registration is a voluntary action; alternatively, registration papers can be withheld entirely, and the buyer can apply to the AKC for an Indefinite Listing Privilege (ILP).

ARTICLE IV
Sales

1. All sales of puppies and adults should include:
1. AKC registration application papers
2. Signed Bill of Sale
3. An accurate three generation pedigree
4. ABC Brochure and/or copy of the Standard of the Breed
5. Health record including shots given, diet and care information

Note: Registration papers may be withheld at the time of the sale in such cases of prior agreement in writing.

Example: Spay/neuter agreement; Breeding/Lease agreement or other similar contracted agreement, which would delay transfer of ownership until completion of contract.

2. If possible, puppies should remain in their litter environment until at least 7 weeks of age* (see note below).
3. Purchasers should be urged to spay or neuter all pets.
4. Misleading or untruthful statements must not be used in the selling or advertising of puppies. Misrepresentation of American Boxer Club awards, AKC, and/or foreign titles must be carefully avoided.
5. American Boxer Club Members will at all times strive to be accurate and honest to the best of their ability in appraising the quality of Boxers being offered for sale or placement with reference to the Standard of the Breed.
6. All contracts must be clear and complete with any and all conditions stated. A signed copy must be provided to each party involved.
7. During the life of any Boxer sold or placed, the breeder should endeavor to help the owner in every reasonable way.
8. Prospective buyers should be screened on their desire and ultimate intent for each Boxer. Their interest and ability to provide a safe, adequate and loving home should be determined. Fenced yards and crates should be recommended.
9. American Boxer Club members and member clubs will help educate the public on the Standard of the Breed and care of the Boxer in areas where they are qualified.

*Note: Some States have laws that puppies cannot be separated from their mothers until 8 weeks of age. Check your local and state regulations.

ARTICLE V
Infractions
The Boxer Standard defines the following disqualifications: "Boxers that are any color other than fawn or brindle. Boxers with a total of white markings exceeding one-third of the entire coat."

The following infractions are considered to be actions contrary to the best interest of the breed and/or the American Boxer Club:

1. Full registration with the American Kennel Club of a Boxer of any color not allowed by the Standard adopted for the breed by the American Boxer Club, approved by the American Kennel Club and in force at the time of the Infraction.
2. Providing an application for full registration with the American Kennel Club of a Boxer of any color not allowed by the Standard.
3. Signing an application for registration with the American Kennel Club of a litter whose sire and/or dam are of a color not allowed by the Standard.
4. Selling or consigning for resale a Boxer whose sire and/or dam are of a color not allowed by the Standard.
5. Selling, consigning or disposing of a puppy or an adult Boxer to a pet shop, chain of pet shops or any commercial kennel for resale.

Charges may be brought against a member or a member club for actions listed in this Article, as defined in Article VIII, Section 2 of the By-Laws of the American Boxer Club.

Adopted by the Membership: September 16, 2005

[Gallien Jacks]

Boxerowner, i dont think you read everything do you? you seem to only read what you want to, you are still asking questions that have been cleared up how many times do they have to be gone over?

[Boxerowner]

See its never ending! Ppl here sure r not listening!

[yuckaduck]

While on the topic of posts that started this, does anyone remember this:
“From what I have learnt you cant get an albino boxer they just have a low pigmentation, i think its wrong to breed them but I don't think they should be killed either, I know someone that has bred one and they don't think they have done anything wrong I just cant get them to see it, they also said that boxers started out white? I asked them to show where they got this information and they haven't replied!”

That is about me and it simply wasn’t true! I had given her my answers and so had other people yet she chose to talk behind my back. It’s fine for her to do this but when I state FACTS and TRUTHS I get attacked.

Sharky where there does it say anything about you? No one talked behind your back because there was no names given no indication of who was being thought of. I think you are extremely irresponsible for breeding a white boxer. That is my personal opinion, but it is your business and whether I approve or not it is your choice.

I have been called irresponsible too, and I know I am not so there you go. I do however refuse to post my tests and my pedigrees because I feel that is my business and those who are buying my pups business and no one elses. I do not wish to advertise here because it simply is not the place to do so.

See the internet is full of all kinds of people and all kinds of thoughts but for you to travel from forum to forum attacking people...wow get a life. Find a hobby or something because it is extremely immature and it is unapprecaited. I am a simple person to get along with and I rarely name call or get personal but when people make it personal as you have....well what else can be done. I have contacted a moderator about the comments made by you and a few others, in an attmept to keep this forum as friendly as possible and as was suggested already...the ignore button is extremely useful. Be a valued member here, stop bashing others and post for yourself.

[yuckaduck]

See its never ending! Ppl here sure r not listening!
No you are not listening.:rolleyes:

[Boxerowner]

" I have contacted a moderator about the comments made by you and a few others"


What comments? It looks to me that you are the one attacking ppl!

[Bichonmum]

She just replied with what testing she's had done, what more do you want? She seems to be getting ganged up on and I don't think Yuckaduck should be able to call her mental. That is attacking! She brings up a good point too, you can not have proper testing until 2 years, are we going to ignore that part?

[Gallien Jacks]

boxerlover FYI Jack russell's only need to be tested for the one thing that they can inherit and that is Primary lens luxation or juvenile cataracts (which ever you want to call it), this can be done on a litter, the dog does not have to be over a certain age to do this, Because jacks haven't been registered for very long there isn't a long list of genetic health probs because no line breeding has been done, pure working dogs did not need to be line bred

[yuckaduck]

She just replied with what testing she's had done, what more do you want? She seems to be getting ganged up on and I don't think Yuckaduck should be able to call her mental. That is attacking! She brings up a good point too, you can not have proper testing until 2 years, are we going to ignore that part?
I never called anyone mental....where did you make that up from?

[Boxerowner]

Duck - I hear that you bred a rescue dog? is this true?

[Bichonmum]

Or do you hear voices in your head too? Sound familiar?

[Saje]

Ok, nobody needs to be attacking anyone else. NOBODY. I know we all feel passionate about our dogs and it's hard to not take things personally but I'm sure we can. Just talk about the issues. We may not all agree but we can still talk.

[Boxerowner]

Well im sorry but she thinks shes better than me! She breeds rescue dog! Atleast I can say where mine came from and if any problems in the line.

[yuckaduck]

Quote:
Originally Posted by yuckaduck
Or do you hear voices in your head too?

Sound familiar?


Yup and where does that say someone is mental? If someone is able to read things into a sentence that says

should white boxer be bred then they must know everything in the world. So how does she know it all.

[Bichonmum]

Yup and where does that say someone is mental? If someone is able to read things into a sentence that says

should white boxer be bred then they must know everything in the world. So how does she know it all.

Huh :confused: :confused: :confused:

[yuckaduck]

Well im sorry but she thinks shes better than me! She breeds rescue dog! Atleast I can say where mine came from and if any problems in the line.


What rescue dog? Again you are trying to start something. I have never and will never breed any rescue dogs. I run a rescue to try and help poor defenceless animals find a better life. What do you do? Oh yeah that is right you breed white boxers.

You really need to know your facts before you shoot off your mouth. I know exactly where my breeding dogs come from and all about them. I spent a serious amount of money on purchasing my breeding dogs to ensure I produce the quality that I want to produce. I also have people calling me to see when we are breeding because there is demand for my pups.

[yuckaduck]

Huh :confused: :confused: :confused:
She clearly stated that this entire thread was all about her and she was defending herself. Where does it say it is all about her? Where was her name mentioned before she came her and started bashing someone? It was not. The world does not revolve around byb's like her.

[Boxerowner]

See there you go again spouting off your mouth! your the one being rude and attacking!

[Bichonmum]

The world does not revolve around byb's like her. Maybe you should look in a mirror?? Now that is the pot calling the kettle black.

[RD]

Boxerowner, thank you for informing us of the tests you have done. Good for you for taking excellent care to assure that your bitch is healthy before breeding her.