On- vs off-lead

[Rubylove]

I am having a dispute with my partner at the moment about the benefits of off-lead walking/training/romping etc...

He seems very much against it, almost as if he wants to train Ruby by totally avoiding any situation where she might jump on another dog, not come when she's called etc....

To me this seems like a bad idea because without exposure to these situations she'll never learn. But we always end up arguing about it and I was after some other people's advice and opinions.

Thanking you in advance!

[oriondw]

Im 100% against off-leash doing anything...

[frenchboxer]

I'm 100% for walking off leash - except in the city. 99.9% of people walk their dogs off leash around here. If you happen to know you have an 'aggressive' dog, then for sure it should be leashed. So far so good.

[Rubylove]

Our dogs are only puppies so this is for them to learn. They are not the slightest bit aggressive - only excitable. Apparently all Labradoodles are a little bit loony so we're not surprised!! But I want them to learn to socialise with other dogs/people so I want them to learn how to behave off-lead. I would never do it while they're still unpredictable when there are children around, but adults and other dogs? I think they need to learn...

[gaddylovesdogs]

I think training your dogs to behave off-leash is very important. What if you're taking a walk, the leash unclips, and your dog sees a squirrel across the street. He starts to bolt. What if you can't tell him "stay" or "come" and know he'll obey? He'll get hit by a car.

I do not think that walking off-lead near busy streets etc. is a good idea, and you should ALWAYS obey leash laws.

[Gempress]

I see where you're coming from about teaching them how to behave off-leash, but to me, it's something that needs to handled mainly by off-leash obedience work. I would never, ever walk my dog off-lead in the city.

Even with the most well-trained dog, there are too many variables to worry about in urban areas. Your dog could try to run up to and play with a dog with aggression problems. Or a squirrel could run by. I personally get nervous whenever I see a dog off-leash and I'm walking Zeus. Zeus has been threatened twice and attacked once by dogs who were off-leash (the owners swore that their dogs "never did that before"). The leash isn't necessarily there to restrict your dog, it's also there to let other passers-by know that your dog is under control and there's nothing to worry about.

[Rubylove]

Yep, I agree with all of that. Our dogs are only allowed off-leash in designated dog exercise areas - parks, dog beach and so on - never along the street or near a street, and rarely when there are more than one or two other dogs around. We tend to take them right out into the middle of a park and let them off there. So I'd say they'd spend 95% of time on a leash, and about 5% off. But it's at parks etc where my partner has a problem with it - we never do it anywhere else anyway - but he still wants them to be on the lead at proper dog exercise parks where it's allowed and encouraged. I just don't think they should be on ALL the time...

[gaddylovesdogs]

If it makes him more comfortable, you could get tracking leads and let them run around dragging the leads. That way they're free in a way, but if you need to grabt them, you can.

[rocco&quiras mama]

a good compromise might be to use a long.. what do you call it ?..it´s like a really long lead, i guess a tracking lead and when ever the dog does something it shouldnt ,then you just stomp on it.. this way other ppl dont have to deal with your dog running up to them or their dogs..

[Sirius]

I don't think that any dog should be off leash unless in a contained area or in a dog park.

[RD]

Good behavior off-leash is very important to me, but it really depends on the dog and what they will be able to do. There are some dogs that I would never let off-lead in a public place (ie: ripley) and some that can be extremely reliable.

I'm all for off-lead training if it is done safely.

[oriondw]

If a dog is friendly, well socialized, and obedient. If it doesnt run to greet first dog it sees.

Then offleash is ok with me. Letting a dog that has temperment issues or is unreliable offleash is just stupid.

[rocco&quiras mama]

my dogs are very friendly and very well socialized but they love ppl and all though they dont run up to everyone they see .. some ppl are scared and for those ppl it´s scary enough just seeing a dog offlead.. it´s all about respect..

[panzer426]

on leash unless in your home or a home you are comfortable in and can still supervise 100%, off leash in a securely fenced area while you supervise, off leash inside a dog kennel, off leash at the vet or groomer IF the vet/groomer needs the leash off to do something either while you supervise or while the dog is sedated or while the vet supervises (if you trust the vet). think thats about it except POSSIBLY a dog park where you are fenced in, after you have been many times and know the dog wont cause trouble and know the other dogs wont, new dog comes leash goes on.

[Brattina88]

Good behavior off-leash is very important to me, but it really depends on the dog and what they will be able to do. There are some dogs that I would never let off-lead in a public place (ie: ripley) and some that can be extremely reliable.

I'm all for off-lead training if it is done safely.
I agree. I think it very much depends on the dog, and the trainer/owner/handler

my dogs are very friendly and very well socialized but they love ppl and all though they dont run up to everyone they see .. some ppl are scared and for those ppl itīs scary enough just seeing a dog offlead.. itīs all about respect..
I agree, to some extent. It depends on where you are - you have to respect people if you are in a public park that has any person who could be potentaily afriad of dogs. I personally only let Maddie off leash when we are in a very remote location, or a known area that dogs are aloud off leash so that people are aware they are, even though she is small, very obediant and always comes when I call her. (I would Never let my Carly off of the leash) We have to be careful because one wrong thing happens, and it ruins it for every dog in the area.

[Dixie]

OK heres my stance-

If you want the dog off-leash, I would STRONGLY recommend OB OB OB OB OB OB OB OB OB well versed OBEDIENCE! Your dog should be 110% reliable off-leash, not 99.9%, its not complete.

Also, Collar conditioning to urge the response you desire. This is using the e-collar. Now before I get crucified, let me explain. When you do this, you are not looking to zap the crap out of the dog right off. I use a 15-level e-collar. Level 1 gets no response, Level 2 gets his attention, Level 3 makes him jump, anything higher gets an immediate YIKE! We train on level 2, if he decides to deliberately disobey me then I up it to level 3, after that he usually complies, only once have I had to take it to level 4.

Now here's how you do it. You give the command, and you immediately nic, within a week he is driving to do as you ask, and for every session after that you must have a collar on. Here's what happens, Fido gets to roam a bit, and yet he is under your control.

Now if there are multiple dogs in your area, I WOULD NOT walk-off leash unless at the park, you never know when a fight might go down. If your out in the country where you know your neighbors dogs then yeah I would walk him off-leash. Just keep the leash in your pocket in case he forgets his manners.

-Dix

[rocco&quiras mama]

shocking your dog obediant... theres a good tip 4 ya.......

why not stop using all these prongs ( or whatever u call them ) e-collars and whatever else and start trying positive reenforcement...
let me remind you that not to long ago it was ok to hit children or hang blacks..

[oriondw]

shocking your dog obediant... theres a good tip 4 ya.......

why not stop using all these prongs ( or whatever u call them ) e-collars and whatever else and start trying positive reenforcement...
let me remind you that not to long ago it was ok to hit children or hang blacks..
:rolleyes:

[gaddylovesdogs]

I am not a huge fan of shock collars, but when used correctly they can be good training tools. I hate how if you come here and you're not 100% positive training, you're bashed and totally pushed down....I've had this happen to me and it's really annoying. You CAN'T say one thing will work for all dogs. Now, I'm not saying abuse your dog, but you don't have to be 100% P.R. and do what other owners do because they bully you.

[Brattina88]

idu... people still hit kids :confused:...

Believe you and me I am all for positive reenforcement, but I don't instantly disagree with other methods because I know P.R doesn't work for every single dog - especailly those who are definitely not food or praise motivated

[rocco&quiras mama]

iīm not bashing any1..
I just think there are kinder ways of doing it..
making the dog listen cuz itīs having fun, not cuz itīs scared.

Iīm not saying itīs always easy.. my dog Rocco is almost two and still has a long way to go . Quira is almost 1 and has been trained with the same methods and is very well behaved.

[Doberluv]

I think it's important to get a very good recall first by keeping the dog on a long line and training it using motivation/reward methods. If you give a command to come and can't do anything about it and the dog doesn't come, you're in trouble right there. Never give a command you can't enforce. Make it extremely worth it to the dog to come every time. All dogs need to eat. Food is a good motivator, especially when it's something very extra yummy on an empty tummy. LOL.

When your dog has a very solid recall, first in low distraction areas, then gradually increasing the distraction level until he's coming in the midst of a lot of different distractions (safe)....then let him off leash in a safe place....never where he can get hit by a car or where other dogs are. Dogs can run a long distance in a heartbeat. No dog is 100% reliable, even the very best trained ones. They have drives, instincts and some situation that could come up, that sometimes override their training. Good recall training doesn't happen over night. It takes lots and lots and lots (did I say lots?) of practice along with the dog's maturity.

Don't forget to praise your pup everytime he comes around you, even if you didn't call him. Make games and fun when teaching him to come....run the other way, entice him, play hide and seek and give him a treat when he finds you. Never punish him for something else when he comes and don't stop all the fun right after he comes. If you're outside and need to go in, if he comes, go inside and continue with another game for a little while. That way he doesn't learn to avoid coming to you because the fun is over. If you call him to come to put the leash on him, walk around for a few steps and release him again. Make sure to end training sessions on a good note and show him that coming to you is the best thing in the whole universe and that it doesn't mean it's the end of a fun time.

If I ONLY walked my Doberman on a leash, in order for him to get enough exercise, I'd have to walk from north Idaho clear to Miami. Thankfully, I live in a wilderness area where there are loads of safe places for us to hike and for him to run, including my own property. But if you don't have this and a park works for you, that's an idea, although I'm not a big fan of dog parks.

Hope these tips help.

[rocco&quiras mama]

I think it's important to get a very good recall first by keeping the dog on a long line and training it using motivation/reward methods. If you give a command to come and can't do anything about it and the dog doesn't come, you're in trouble right there. Never give a command you can't enforce. Make it extremely worth it to the dog to come every time. All dogs need to eat. Food is a good motivator, especially when it's something very extra yummy on an empty tummy. LOL.

When your dog has a very solid recall, first in low distraction areas, then gradually increasing the distraction level until he's coming in the midst of a lot of different distractions (safe)....then let him off leash in a safe place....never where he can get hit by a car or where other dogs are. Dogs can run a long distance in a heartbeat. No dog is 100% reliable, even the very best trained ones. They have drives, instincts and some situation that could come up, that sometimes override their training. Good recall training doesn't happen over night. It takes lots and lots and lots (did I say lots?) of practice along with the dog's maturity.

Don't forget to praise your pup everytime he comes around you, even if you didn't call him. Make games and fun when teaching him to come....run the other way, entice him, play hide and seek and give him a treat when he finds you. Never punish him for something else when he comes and don't stop all the fun right after he comes. If you're outside and need to go in, if he comes, go inside and continue with another game for a little while. That way he doesn't learn to avoid coming to you because the fun is over. If you call him to come to put the leash on him, walk around for a few steps and release him again. Make sure to end training sessions on a good note and show him that coming to you is the best thing in the whole universe and that it doesn't mean it's the end of a fun time.

If I ONLY walked my Doberman on a leash, in order for him to get enough exercise, I'd have to walk from north Idaho clear to Miami. Thankfully, I live in a wilderness area where there are loads of safe places for us to hike and for him to run, including my own property. But if you don't have this and a park works for you, that's an idea, although I'm not a big fan of dog parks.

Hope these tips help.
ī
great tips !!:)

[CanadianK9]

Wanna know the reality of the situation, train and proof on leash, train and proof off leash in controlled situations, and then you can choose to your preference.

[Doberluv]

If a dog is proofed on a leash, that does not say that he will be proofed off leash. A dog is quite aware of when they're not on a leash and so off leash needs to be "proofed" in it's own right. Of course, "proofed" in this case is hard to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. LOL.

My Dobe has a terrific recall when off leash. He's come when chasing deer. When chasing a dog who came in our pasture, he halted and dropped when I hollered out to him from about 200 feet away. He comes when called always when we're out on a hike. If he goes off the trail very far, I say, "trail" and he zooms right back on it. I've taught all three dogs what trail means. I never have a problem calling him to come...........all except for a few weeks ago. He was chasing a bear off the property. He ignored me. My Chihuahua did the same thing last summer and ignored me. A dog can be soooooo good and then one time, one thing causes them to focus sooooo hard, that they simply don't hear you. Prey drive in all wheel drive.

[bubbatd]

Most of these comments were about dogs and I agree.... but this is still a pup ! A pup should always be on a leash unless in a confined area at least until they have been well schooled and come with obedient calls when you ask.

[AndrewF]

I'm a firm believer in having your dog trained off leash....at least to a point where they 'come' reliably. The reason I believe so strongly in this is if your leash becomes unclipped from the collar or if you accidentally drop the leash. Both of these have happened to me and it's because I worked with Jake off-leash in a suitable area before-hand which allowed for him to come when I called him to me. And to stress this point, the time his leash came unclipped, we were crossing a road (that leash has since been chucked). If memory servers me correctly, he was only 4 or 5 months old at the time.

I'll also go a step farther and say teach them as soon as you can. I started Jake when he was about 3 months old in a tennis court on a retractable leash, then off leash with the gates closed, then in a leash-free park. In the end, it's all about his safety for me.

[Doberluv]

Most of these comments were about dogs and I agree.... but this is still a pup ! A pup should always be on a leash unless in a confined area at least until they have been well schooled and come with obedient calls when you ask.

Abslutely. It takes lots of time and maturing before you get to that time when it is appropriate to work off leash. If you start too soon and the dog is not ready, has not been proofed for quite some time on a long line, you'll not get the reliability. Same with anything. A pup has to get really, really good at a skill in an area free of distractions before trying in highter distractions. A stay has to get good for a very short time before you work up to a longer stay. It's all about baby steps and not rushing ahead before the dog has mastered a previous stage.

[Dizzy]

Depends on the dog...

We used to go hill walking with our dog (years ago now). She was fine, no problems. I would never walk along a street with her off the lead.

I see dogs ALL the time walking off the lead in town. Some are expert at it, ignore all passers by, sit at the kerbside etc. Some are no good at it at all!!

I really believe you can not decide on other people opinions. It depends on your dogs. I fully intend to let Bodhi off lead in the park/countryside/beach. Of course, we need some training first - she hasn't been out yet!

[Brattina88]

My Dobe has a terrific recall when off leash. He's come when chasing deer. When chasing a dog who came in our pasture, he halted and dropped when I hollered out to him from about 200 feet away. He comes when called always when we're out on a hike. If he goes off the trail very far, I say, "trail" and he zooms right back on it. I've taught all three dogs what trail means. I never have a problem calling him to come...........all except for a few weeks ago. He was chasing a bear off the property. He ignored me. My Chihuahua did the same thing last summer and ignored me. A dog can be soooooo good and then one time, one thing causes them to focus sooooo hard, that they simply don't hear you. Prey drive in all wheel drive.
Even though I have spent countless hours (in small increments) training Maddie it never ceases to amaze me when she actually listens. Its incredible to watch a dog, 110% focused on chasing a squirrel, turkey, whatever, turn completely around with the sound of one or two words!
In My Opinion (!) Regardless of whether or not anyone intends to walk/let their dog off leash** I think it needs to be taught, just in case... Just in case one day something happens... Because you never know

**And if you do, owners eyes must be diligent watching for possible distracters. Its easier to call out a "Leave it" before the dog is focused than to get the dogs attention back on you for a recall in a dire situation :)

[Sirius]

I have seen people training their puppies in a dog park offleash and then when they don't listen punish them. HELLO?!?! This is a [i]dog[i/] park. Key word there being dog. Too many distractions. Harley is still a little boy, and I train him in the backyard using Sam as an example. Whenever we are walking, Sam's attention is on me. Then when I say, "Okay!" she can go do her dog thing. If I say, "Sam, Come!" WHAM! Back to me. Harley is a different story. But anyways, I am getting off topic. Training off leash is fine... In a contained area !! Like, in your fenced backyard. Not in the middle of the road. Like I have seen some people... Jeez.

[Dixie]

iīm not bashing any1..
I just think there are kinder ways of doing it..
making the dog listen cuz itīs having fun, not cuz itīs scared.

Iīm not saying itīs always easy.. my dog Rocco is almost two and still has a long way to go . Quira is almost 1 and has been trained with the same methods and is very well behaved.

My lab is 9 mos old and we have succesfully completed OB. Again on the e-collar in the wrong hands it is a torture device, in the right hands it is a excellent training tool. When I nic him it is for less than a second, just enough to get his attention. Now that he has been collar conditioned, he will only need one quick nic as reminder of what I expect. Again this is usually just enough to get his attention not to cause major pain.

He gets fun and games as well, I play with him, rub his belly, and throw him plenty of fun bumpers because its his favorite game. He also has a basketball to play with in his pen when Im not around.

I love my dog, but I expect compliance from him 110% of the time, just as you would with your children.

-Dix

[rocco&quiras mama]

dixie..

I don´t doubt that you love your dog.
Just expressing my view on the matter.

And if you play with him all the time anyways why not inc that with the training.

[Dixie]

He's able to differentiate between playtime and worktime and I like to keep it that way for when we do these tests.

Also I might add that everytime he learns a new concept I praise him like he's won the grand. So its not like everytime we are out training he only gets corrections, he gets lots of praise as well so he knows when hes done something right.

Im glad you expressed your views, that is what the discussion board is for, I like hearing everyones personal views on training, its what makes this world go round and round.

-Dix