View Full Version : No Eye Problems!!!
Whitedobelover
10-31-2005, 09:57 PM
Well we just got back from the optomoligist for animals and mistys eyes are perfect she said... she was wondering if she was albino and the first thing she said to me was, there is only pigment in her eyes so i know she is not albino and i dont have to worry about prolonged sun exposure causing problems...
then she said that she can see perfectly. and has no issues what so ever with her eyes. I was so excited... her new owner was excited also... she doesnt go home for a couple weeks probably about 8 weeks then she will go home to vancouver washington. I am so excited.
The doc said she cant wait to see prince and do his cerf testing... she wants to do one now and then one at two years and then every year after that... :D which is awesome.... woohoo glad it well
yuckaduck
10-31-2005, 10:57 PM
Yeah for Misty. I am so glad that all went well. I hope it goes just as well with Prince. Glad to hear she is NOT albino too!
Whitedobelover
10-31-2005, 11:04 PM
thanks yucka :D hugs
filarotten
11-01-2005, 10:33 AM
Glad to hear Mistys eyes were ok. And glad you found her a new owner.
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 01:23 PM
oh ye we are excited for her to meet him and he is excited too... she is such a good baby... she deserves so much and i am very weary so i asked him if he minded if we poped in and said hi and brought her stuff like toys and he said no he thought that was a good idea
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 02:01 PM
The lady that works the front office. is actually interested in one of princes future babies... i am so excited about that... i would love it if she had one of princes babies... she seen a picture of him but thinks she wants one just like him i said okay LOL if we breed and stuff we will. heheheso she is excited about it :D as we are here at home heheh
SiberianMaster
11-01-2005, 02:34 PM
Oh that's great!! I'm sure your so relieved. :)
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 02:39 PM
oh gosh was i... i took it at the shelters word she had eye problems so we thought we had better have it checked out and well needless to say the shelter and their volunteers were wrong twice lol... no worries i only care that she can see fine now. :D
She's going to Vancouver, Washinton? LOL
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 02:45 PM
yes :D she is... sorry should have remember there is a vancouver north of me too lol
Lexus
11-01-2005, 07:05 PM
Well we just got back from the optomoligist for animals and mistys eyes are perfect she said... she was wondering if she was albino and the first thing she said to me was, there is only pigment in her eyes so i know she is not albino and i dont have to worry about prolonged sun exposure causing problems...
That's great that her eyes are in good shape now! Although just to set the record straight, albino dobes do have pigment in their coat and eyes, residual that is, that's the reason for the diluted markings and the blue eyes rather than pink/red.
Like I said though, I'm glad her eyes checked out at this time!
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 08:47 PM
no they dont... i think lexus i will take a doctor over you who knows njothing about albinism except what the dpca say slol and that is a lie... and isnt albino dobes... it albinos in general lol do not have ANY pigment in their pupils... or hair LOL if you studied albinism you would know that but since you dont and you ddint read what i said you dont know... her pupils are black once again jessica for your info and you CANNOT be albino with black pupils...REMEMBER YOU ARE NOT A DOCTOR AND YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ALBINISM EXCEPT WHAT YOU ARE FILTER TO KNOW...
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 08:52 PM
For those of you who are open to learning here is the definition directly out of websters dictionary LOL...
an organism exhibiting deficient pigmentation; especially : a human being or nonhuman mammal that is congenitally deficient in pigment and usually has a milky or translucent skin, white or colorless hair, and eyes with pink or blue iris and deep-red pupil
now for you guys this will give you guys more info about exactly what albino is... im sorry that some of you refuse this definition... but let me explain it to you
a mammal with WHITE COLORLESS hair, with PINK or BLUE iris and DEEP-RED pupils
now that way you guys who dont wanna believe it i would like you all to write websters and tell them they are wrong because that is a scientific fact lol
Chithedobe
11-01-2005, 09:08 PM
For those of you who are open to learning here is the definition directly out of websters dictionary LOL...
an organism exhibiting deficient pigmentation; especially : a human being or nonhuman mammal that is congenitally deficient in pigment and usually has a milky or translucent skin, white or colorless hair, and eyes with pink or blue iris and deep-red pupil
Main Entry: al·bi·no
Pronunciation: al-'bI-(")nO
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -nos
Etymology: Portuguese, from Spanish, from albo white, from Latin albus
: an organism exhibiting deficient pigmentation; especially : a human being or nonhuman mammal that is congenitally deficient in pigment and usually has a milky or translucent skin, white or colorless hair, and eyes with pink or blue iris and deep-red pupil
Note the word usually. Not always, usually.
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 09:10 PM
either Translucent or milky skin LOL skin is the word that doesnt have anything to do with fur LOL
oh wait did you read the part where there has to be RED pupils or did you miss that cause neither of my dogs have red pupils LOL
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 09:12 PM
chit dont argue with me this right here shows you guys are wrong lOL
it stats usually milky or translucent : meaning it will have either translucent or milky skin lol another words it means it will ahve one or the other not black lol or green lol
no one said prince and misty didnt have white skin LOL what i said was they have to much pigment in the hair and eyes and pupils to be albino LOL and if you dont believe ask your vet what albino means LOL oh wait lol forgot never mind lol
Chithedobe
11-01-2005, 09:17 PM
no that definition does not say that the specimin must have red pupils. The way it is written states that USUALLY implies to all that is after it.
" an organism exhibiting deficient pigmentation; especially : a human being or nonhuman mammal that is congenitally deficient in pigment and usually has a milky or translucent skin, white or colorless hair, and eyes with pink or blue iris and deep-red pupil"
If "usually" only applied to "milky or translucent skin" it would be written as such:
"...deficient in pigment, white or colorless hair, and eyes with pink or blue iris and deep-red pupil deficient in pigment and usually has a milky or translucent skin."
But that's now how it is written. It states very clearly that an albino is:
"a human being or nonhuman mammal that is congenitally deficient in pigment and usually has a milky or translucent skin, white or colorless hair, and eyes with pink or blue iris and deep-red pupil"
Chithedobe
11-01-2005, 09:18 PM
I'm not arguing at all. But if you're going to provide a definition to back up your claim, provide one that works for you, not against you....
That said, I am happy that she's healthy with no eye problems and has found a new forever home :-)
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 09:25 PM
The word "albinism" refers to a group of inherited conditions. Mammals with albinism have no pigment in their eyes, skin, or hair. They have inherited genes that do not make the usual amounts of a pigment called melanin
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 09:26 PM
it didnt lol it worked against you...a sk anyone what that means chit you can twist the words nicely which is cool cause really it only hurts you not me... lol it as you read means either white or translucent lol and my dogs have white skin but also have colored hair LOL
Chithedobe
11-01-2005, 09:30 PM
There was no word twisting, I was reading following the rules of basic grammar.
doberkim
11-01-2005, 09:45 PM
no they dont... i think lexus i will take a doctor over you who knows njothing about albinism except what the dpca say slol and that is a lie... and isnt albino dobes... it albinos in general lol do not have ANY pigment in their pupils... or hair LOL if you studied albinism you would know that but since you dont and you ddint read what i said you dont know... her pupils are black once again jessica for your info and you CANNOT be albino with black pupils...REMEMBER YOU ARE NOT A DOCTOR AND YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ALBINISM EXCEPT WHAT YOU ARE FILTER TO KNOW...
ironic, considering this person holds essentially the same degree as what i will in a few short months and you discounted MY opinion. how do you explain that discrepency?
its not what the DPCA says. its what SCIENCE says.
you yourself have said they have red pupils, not black ones.
please, try to speak in complete sentences with correct grammar, it helps the rest of us understand what you are trying to say.
doberkim
11-01-2005, 09:47 PM
For those of you who are open to learning here is the definition directly out of websters dictionary LOL...
an organism exhibiting deficient pigmentation; especially : a human being or nonhuman mammal that is congenitally deficient in pigment and usually has a milky or translucent skin, white or colorless hair, and eyes with pink or blue iris and deep-red pupil
now for you guys this will give you guys more info about exactly what albino is... im sorry that some of you refuse this definition... but let me explain it to you
a mammal with WHITE COLORLESS hair, with PINK or BLUE iris and DEEP-RED pupils
now that way you guys who dont wanna believe it i would like you all to write websters and tell them they are wrong because that is a scientific fact lol
go to a SCIENTIFIC text and look at what the definition is... oh wait, we already had one of them from elle's textbook (complete with full citation).
i dont go to websters for explanations of science. i go to primary sources, textbooks, peer reviewed literature. and thats all the answers i need.
if all you can come up with to support you are two websites from lysa rector, websters dictionary, and dogbreedinfo.com, and the rest of us can provide you with scientific texts, papers, journal articles -- which do you think are right?
there is a trend - whenever we present you with proof that you cannot counter, you start a different thread or "disappear". the fact is, in the 2-3 months you have been trying to prove your point, you have failed to provide any of us with anything but promises of elusive studies from universities, and links to websites that offer no scientific proof whatsoever. as a scientist, i base my opinions on what i know works and what science, the laws of nature, etc prove to me ... and i have seen no proof. if i could find proof, or if you showed me proof, perhaps i would have to change my mind.
however, you have failed to provide me with any proof whatsoever. the burder lies with you - because the scientific proof i have found certainly does not.
i am glad her eyes checked out fine - and i am glad she is getting a good home. keep us updated. for the record, you were probably thinking about persistent pupillary membranes (PPM).
bubbatd
11-01-2005, 10:21 PM
From what I have read, you can have all degrees of albinizm ... and all white Dobes are. Just like people with Down Syndrome...some have poor eyes, some heart defects, some with protruding tongues, some with folded over ears, some short in stature , ....my Grandson Nash has none of these, yet he has Down Syndrome. You have a handsome White Dobe... why does it matter that he's an Albino ??
Chithedobe
11-01-2005, 10:27 PM
From what I have read, you can have all degrees of albinizm ... and all white Dobes are. Just like people with Down Syndrome...some have poor eyes, some heart defects, some with protruding tongues, some with folded over ears, some short in stature , ....my Grandson Nash has none of these, yet he has Down Syndrome. You have a handsome White Dobe... why does it matter that he's an Albino ??
He is a very handsome boy, I love the pics posted of him in the NKC thread. The problem is that (and I realize this question was not directed to me, I'm sorry for answering it) she intends to stud him out - which is completely against the breed standard for numerous reasons. Having an albino dobe, loving an albino dobe, competing in agility and obedience with an albino Dobe are all good and wonderful things; breeding an albino Dobe is not.
bubbatd
11-01-2005, 10:33 PM
No, I wasn't aware she was going to use him as a stud.... There I do not agree !! No dog with faulty genes should be bred..as my grand-son should never be a natural father. ( just re-read and saw the possibility of breeding... I hope she changes her mind ! )
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 10:41 PM
and this isnt about using him as a stud both of you need to take it some where else and if you guys dont like it take it to some other thread and chit stop trying to bring prince into it and this thread is about misty not you not i... and if you dont like what the doctor said from a knowledge basis then stay out of it... because you ARE NOT a doctor or let alone a professional so you need to back off till you the not so doctor has a degree
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 10:42 PM
there is no degree of albinism bubba... i am in medical school.. either you are albino or you arent.. there is no partial no carrier... nothing LOL either you are or you arent... if you think so... you should probably as i have had to, do some research on albinism... lol
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 10:45 PM
guess what bubba... if he WAS infact albino i wouldnt breed him since he ISNOT i will provided his testing ofa cerf, etc... come back excellent
bubbatd
11-01-2005, 10:47 PM
I just got it from the white dobe site...they said it was either partial or tendancy. Don't mean to change the subject... just answering. Being in med school, you should know. What year are you in?? Where??
I'm going with this site:
The word "albinism" refers to a group of inherited conditions. People with albinism have little or no pigment in their eyes, skin, or hair. They have inherited genes that do not make the usual amounts of a pigment called melanin.
since that's all they do
http://www.albinism.org/publications/what_is_albinism.html
more...
One person in 17,000 in the U.S.A. has some type of albinism. Albinism affects people from all races. Most children with albinism are born to parents who have normal hair and eye color for their ethnic backgrounds. Often people do not recognize that they have albinism.
A common myth is that by definition people with albinism have red eyes. In fact there are different types of albinism, and the amount of pigment in the eyes varies. Although some individuals with albinism have reddish or violet eyes, most have blue eyes. Some have hazel or brown eyes.
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 10:52 PM
no one said they had red eyes... they have color eyes with red pupils saje LOL lets remember that you didnt post that part right :D
What??? I didn't post what part?
Whitedobelover
11-01-2005, 10:58 PM
forget it saje... it doesnt matter you can show people facts you can show them everything in the world if they are believing one thing they wont believe another... and those guys are going to believe lies and that is cool i have no issue but they should take it to another thread rather than always attacking me everytime i start a thread... if they dont like it take it up with chaz..
Chithedobe
11-01-2005, 11:00 PM
and this isnt about using him as a stud both of you need to take it some where else and if you guys dont like it take it to some other thread and chit stop trying to bring prince into it and this thread is about misty not you not i... and if you dont like what the doctor said from a knowledge basis then stay out of it... because you ARE NOT a doctor or let alone a professional so you need to back off till you the not so doctor has a degree
Sorry for bringing Prince into this conversation. I assumed that Bubba was speaking of him when she said you had a very handsome boy and didn't think that a compliment would be taken out of line. Let me clarify. The problem with any albino dobe is that many people want to view them as a "rare" color and breed them. Unfortunately, albinism is against breed standard and is why most Dobe enthusiasts are vehemently against their breeding.
Chithedobe
11-01-2005, 11:02 PM
forget it saje... it doesnt matter you can show people facts you can show them everything in the world if they are believing one thing they wont believe another... and those guys are going to believe lies and that is cool i have no issue but they should take it to another thread rather than always attacking me everytime i start a thread... if they dont like it take it up with chaz..
Funny, many could say the same thing about you. You refute any real fact that is presented to you and absolutely refuse to acknowledge it's validity. Then you post promises that you have facts that refute the presented evidence but never deliver....
They are just stating their opinion. They aren't attacking you. There has been no name calling. I don't like the idea of you breeding those dogs either. There are more than enough dogs in the world. Why breed something that can't improve the breed - at least in the eyes of most dog enthusiasts and organizations? I just don't get it. And I've told you again and again to put the people who bother you on ignore. If you did that you wouldn't be getting upset and they wouldn't have fuel now would they?
bubbatd
11-01-2005, 11:17 PM
WDL... I'm not attacking you. I don't much about Dobes and was curious so went into the Doberman FAQ site and got my info from there.I didn't quote right earilier... They say that the White Dob is an incomplete or partial albino with blue eyes ,cream colored with white markings and light pigment.
chazhound
11-01-2005, 11:35 PM
forget it saje... it doesnt matter you can show people facts you can show them everything in the world if they are believing one thing they wont believe another... and those guys are going to believe lies and that is cool i have no issue but they should take it to another thread rather than always attacking me everytime i start a thread... if they dont like it take it up with chaz..
They are attacking the issue not you. You are taking it way to personal. If you have a white dobe and are planning on breeding it, you have to expect alot of peeps will not agree with you. So let me know when you actually get attacked personally and I will come back :)
Chazhound
Whitedobelover
11-02-2005, 12:03 AM
no i am telling them that this thread was about an eye issue that pippins thought she knew about and i wanted to set her straight if they cant take their issues about prince to another thread they dont need to post
Chithedobe
11-02-2005, 12:23 AM
Yes it is clear that your intent in this thread was to discuss Misty's eye results from the vet. However, in your original post you brought up both albinism and Prince.
Lexus
11-02-2005, 06:39 AM
no they dont... i think lexus i will take a doctor over you who knows njothing about albinism except what the dpca say slol and that is a lie... and isnt albino dobes... it albinos in general lol do not have ANY pigment in their pupils... or hair LOL if you studied albinism you would know that but since you dont and you ddint read what i said you dont know... her pupils are black once again jessica for your info and you CANNOT be albino with black pupils...REMEMBER YOU ARE NOT A DOCTOR AND YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ALBINISM EXCEPT WHAT YOU ARE FILTER TO KNOW...
For one the DPCA follows science, your DPAA's page on albinism is written by a White Breeder. The one that your dog's line is from at that. Of course she's going to say those things, SHE PROFITS from it.
ANd the white dobermans exhibit a TYPE of albinoism, I'm surprised from all your "medical" experience you didn't already know this....."tyrosinase positive" is specifically used to refer to a TYPE of albinism, in which the dog does retain some residual pigment production.
Like I said originally this is the reason for pigmented eyes and lightly pigmented coats.
YorkieLover
11-02-2005, 09:16 AM
I think this person just likes to start crap and then can't back it up... Once again, too much time has been spent arguing with someone that doesn't want to listen.
doberkim
11-02-2005, 06:27 PM
and once again, avoiding the issue and not answering the posts that call them out.
thanks chazhound, thats my point - we are discussing this issue. elizabeth is actually the one making it personal by attacking education levels, and telling us that because some people are not drs (though i am much closer to a dr than she is, if we want to tally points), that we have no opinions.
once again - scientific proof, or nothing.
there is no degree of albinism bubba... i am in medical school.. either you are albino or you arent.. there is no partial no carrier... nothing LOL either you are or you arent... if you think so... you should probably as i have had to, do some research on albinism... lol
Actually, there *are* carriers. Since classic albinism is inherited in a mendelian recessive fashion, those that are heterozygous for the gene are by definition carriers.
I have already posted it once, but dictionaries often do not present the full scientific definition. As a medical student, you should know this.
From a respected, college-level text (Griffiths, Anthony J., William M. Gelbart, Richard C. Lewontin, and Jeffrey H. Miller. Modern Genetic Analysis: Integrating Genes and Genomes. 2nd ed. New York: W. H. Freeman and Company, 2002.):
Albino: Mutant phenotype as determined by a mutation in a gene coding for a pigment-synthesizing enzyme.
Thus, as most genetic disorders, there is rarely just: afflicted or not afflicted. Again as you claim to be a medical student, you should know this. This is a basic concept that is COMMONLY found on the MCAT (medical college admission test, for those who don't know -- a test i took this past august and did very well on).
So, albinos can have a variety of phenotypes (outward appearances) based on how the gene is mutated and to what extent the enzyme is rendered nonfunctional.
If anyone has questions about this definiton, feel free to ask as it *is* a complicated issue.
doberkim
11-02-2005, 10:53 PM
if there aren't carriers, how do black dogs produce "white"/albino dogs? :)