Breed Problem - Which would be the one?

[tiivi]

I'm not getting another dog now. I have 9 months old Finnish Lapphund, Nuttu, and I'm thinking about another in few years. I want the first one to be adult and trained (just basic obedience for daily life). She's still young and needs special attention, but I would love to get her a buddy when she's older. She's going to have puppies under her breeders kennel name in few years so maybe after that would be a perfect time for a new puppy.

Although it's still few years away, I want to start thinking which breed would be good. Since I want to be sure I know the breed I'm interested in, I'm starting now.

So, which one would you guys suggest as a companion of little Lappie-girl? She's a working type Finnish Lapphund, easy to train, loves being around her "herd", stubborn (like finnish people).

These things are important, but I don't mind if one is missing if all the others apply.

-Easy coat, no trimming. Can be long or short. I don't mind brushing for few times a week (I do that already with Nuttu), but I don't want to use hours for coat.
-Doesn't freeze in finland's weather without a jacket on. (Snow everywhere for five to six months a year)
-I live in an apartment building so barking it's not allowed inside. I don't mind if the dog isn't the quietest when outside and playing.
-Must be friendly with children (age 6 and up)
-Doesn't have to love all the strangers, but should be social with other dogs.
-Medium sized (under 40 pounds)
-Easy to train. Can be a little stubborn, I'm used to that with Lappie. But would be nice if the dog was easy to motivate to learn (interested in toys and treats).
-Not hunting. I can manage a dog who runs after a rabbit when one bounces in front of it's nose, but I don't want the type that lives for hunting.

I have been thinking about these:
-Another Lapphund (Maybe one of Nuttu's puppies)
-Lapponian Herder (Basically a smooth coated version of working type Lapphund, which I have now)
-Collie (Smooth)
-Welsh Corgi Pembroke
Aside of those I have a soft spot for whippets and long haired chihuahuas... For those I could toss that "I don't want a dog that needs a jacket"-rule...

Few links if you have no idea what Lapphund and Lapponian herder are like:
Lapponian Herder: http://koti.mbnet.fi/tuulen/poro21.htm
Lapphund: http://www.herdingontheweb.com/lapphund.htm
"The original herder" aka working type Lapphund: http://www.saunalahti.fi/pls/engindex.htm

[BigDog2191]

Possibly long-haired dachshund?

[Mordy]

fran posted this really good dog breed recommender in another thread yesterday. it's the most comprehensive i've seen so far - give it a try! :)

http://www.k9country.com/perl/dogBreed.pl

[fillyone]

fran posted this really good dog breed recommender in another thread yesterday. it's the most comprehensive i've seen so far - give it a try! :)

http://www.k9country.com/perl/dogBreed.pl

That site got me right :D
100% match
Herding Group
German Shepherd Dogs - Match!

[SiberianMaster]

When considering a corgi make sure you check with the breeder that the parents are socialable with other dogs. I have a corgi and now a breeder and quite a few others that have corgi's with social problems with other dogs.

[showpug]

PUG!!! ;) They meet all your criteria. They do shed a lot though, but other than that they have a wash and wear coat, are very social, enjoy other dogs, rarely bark and don't really have a prey drive. They make wonderful companions, but I have found that people either love them or hate them LOL!!! I of course, LOVE THEM!! ;)

[tiivi]

LoL. I tried out the test and got really weird options... Maybe I got some questions wrong. I have to do it again when I have a little more time to think...

100% match were bulldogs, basset hound and pugs.
90% match Clumber spaniels, Great Dane, Beagles, Shiba Inu and some others.

showpug, I actually like pugs, but they are relatively rare in Finland so I'm not sure how easy it is to find a healthy puppy from nice parents. And I'm still thinking a longer/thicker fur would be good, since I do very long walks with my Lapphund and she would love to be outside all day even in really cold weather.

SiberianMaster, thanks for telling me that. I have heard that corgis might have a problem with other dogs but I wasn't sure if it's true or not. I have a quite a few friends with dogs who we meet often and I would love my dogs to get along with theirs. What about barking? Are corgis easy to train not to bark inside?

BigDog2191, that could be an option. My cousin had one and he was nice. How is their prey drive these days?

I did the test again. I put in also large size since I realised atleast collies go to that category. So now I got 100%match with collies (smooth and rough) and bernese mountain dog. Bernese is a little too big for me and I not sure I a want a rough collie, but smooth sounds good. As 90% matches there are pugs, bulldogs, bassets (problem with coat) and some others that have a problem with activity.

Does anyone know if there is any other differences between to collie types that the coat? I have heard that rough collies are more social with people but is it true?

I think this is eventually turning harder. There are so many nice breeds. I'm not really sure if I want something totally different or another lapphund. I'm already trying to make a decicion that I won't take one of my own dog's puppies... They will eventually be so cute that I want to keep them all. I just decided that if there is a light grey wolf colored girl, that is not as independent and stubborn puppy as her mom, I'll think about it. But if my dogs breeder's choice for the stud goes through, there will probably be just brown (bark colored) puppies.

[colliepop]

WOW! that's a pretty cool test... The closest match for me is the Smooth Collie, which is great since we have one (second one I've had) :D

[MysticRealm]

I think that a collie would deffinately be outside you weight restrictions, even females are supposed to be around 50-65 pounds. Plus they are big dogs height wise at the smallest hieght in the standard is 22 inches tall.

[RD]

I haven't noticed any difference in temperament between the two collie coat types.

What are your requirements for energy level? Believe it or not, if you can handle an active dog, a Border Collie suits what you listed. (With the possible exception of size, but they are much smaller than collies.)
-Their coat is thick and keeps them warm, but it is very easy to maintain. (wash-and-wear) I brush my Border Collie a couple of times a week and his coat is in nice shape.
-BCs are not loud dogs by nature, it is easy to teach them to be quiet in the house.
-They are wonderful with other dogs, I have yet to meet a Border Collie that didn't get along with my dog.
-They are polite with strangers, my boy doesn't know a stranger (he's just a pup) but some are a little more reserved.
-There are none easier to train than the Border Collie, once you "get their number". They don't train like regular dogs, but once you get a good understanding going with your Border Collie they can learn commands in only a few repetitions.
-Their prey drive is strong, but their toy drive is stronger. My boy won't even glance at a rabbit when I distract him with a toy or a command.

Also, again if you can handle the energy (I don't know a lot about Lapphunds but they sound like working breeds, most likely fairly energetic and intense) an Australian Shepherd might fit. They're a little more low-key and less intense than the Border Collie, but share some traits with the BC.

[tiivi]

MysticRealm: I got mixed up with the pounds... We don't use those so I counted wrong. I think the real weight which I was supposed to put the limit on is about 60 pounds.

RD: I think the energy levels of both, Border Collie and Australian Shepherd, migh be a little too much for me. I like both breeds but I think they might be a little too active for me.

By the way, does anyone know how active Kelpies are? Someone told me they are like Lapponian Herders, but I have always thought they are really active. Lapponian Herder is an active dog, but not even near to activity levels of Border Collies.

[joce]

Definately not a corgi. they shed more than a husky and have as much energy as a border collie. I think daschund sounds kinda good.

[anna84]

Maybe a smaller spitz type breed. Shiba Inu or an American eskimo dog are both smaller and have coats that could tolerate cold weather. If your looking for dog friendly, trainable, not a lot of prey drive, and is good with kids then a golden retriever is always a good fit. And their not barky. By any chance do you have pictures of your puppy?

[Renee750il]

I'd definitely rule out the Aussie - wonderful, marvelous dogs, but they tend to have more of an active guardian streak than most Borders and don't necessarily like just any other dog. They also need quite a lot of exercise - like the Border Collie.

Oddly enough, the Old English Mastiff and some of the other molossers, even though they are large, are excellent house dogs and quite content to be couch potatoes until you're ready to go play. The Old English is also one of the more affable, gentle giants with other dogs.

[RD]

I know a man who works Kelpies on his cattle. Kelpies easily beat out Border Collies as far as energy goes. I consider Borders to have intense energy, but Kelpies have a frantic energy about them. They're definitely very active and not for the average home.

[Fuzz Puppy]

Would a Greyhound work?

[bubbatd]

A question ... does the breeder co-own her with you ?? Otherwise , why do you want her bred if you don't want a pup ?? You have the mess of 3 heats and all the testings... for what ??

[bubbatd]

LOL!!! I just did the test and only 2 came up... Golden Retriever or Flat Coated Retriever !!! Can't believe it !!

[groominggal]

Shiba Inus! They are AWESOME little dogs. They are Japanese, bred for hunting in the Japanese mountains. Like their bigger cousins, the Akitas, they can be reserved around strangers but LOVE their own families!

[tiivi]

I already wrote the longest answer, and it disappeared when I tried to send it. :mad:

bubbatd: My dog's breeder actually owns my dog. We have an agreement (and yes we have an official signed contract so it's safe for both of us) that she placed the dog in my care until she's old enough to be bred. When she has had her puppies, the ownership will be changed and she will be mine. It's a wonderful thing for me to have a dog like this, I'm really interested in breeding, so this way I can get good insight and for the breeder it's good that she gets to use the best puppy in her litter without having her home all the time. My dogs breeder live quite in a city center, so she doesn't have space, or time for another young dog. The breeder pays all the breeding costs (all the needed testing: hip and elbow x-rays, knee and eye checks, travelling to the stud etc.) and I'll pay the costs of normal living. I decide how to train her and what to feed her, and basically I get to treat her like my own. The breeder can take her to shows, but she must inform me atleast a month and half earlier.

And the mess with heats it not that big deal, since it's usual in finland not to spay female dogs when they are really young. And as it comes for the breed, many don't spay, because it affects badly on the fur. It can soften and after that, it collects all the snow, it's difficult to handle and it can grow too long without good shedding that keeps it healthy. Basically, I think it's more a culture thing, since dogs don't run free much and people are so used to the heats. I'll probably spay mine after the puppies.

RD: I thought that about the Kelpie too, just wasn't sure, since I have heard a lots of mixed up information.

Greyhound is probably a no-no because they cannot handle the cold weather and have prey drive (a lots of wild rabbits in the area).

--------

Does anyone know how barky mittelspitzes are? Or keeshonds?

I heard that there is timidity (is that even a correct word?) in smooth collies. Is it true and if it's, does anyone know how easy it's to get puppy which isn't timid.

[tiivi]

Forgot half of the things I was supposed to write...

The molossers are probably a little too big for me. I like more of middle sized and big dogs than giant sizes. Shibas have the prey drive problem too. And I think I wouldn't find an American Eskimo Dog in Finland.

I don't really like Golden Retrievers, I have never felt that they would fit in my home. There is a small 'maybe' but a bigger 'not'... Only retrievers that I really like are Tollers.

Anna84:
Here's a pic of my dog, day before her first birthday.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7832/speedykka000226qa.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=speedykka000226qa.jpg)

[Amstaffer]

fran posted this really good dog breed recommender in another thread yesterday. it's the most comprehensive i've seen so far - give it a try! :)

http://www.k9country.com/perl/dogBreed.pl

Not so sure about this web site....it said I only matched American Staffordshire Terriers at 80% because of problems with children, Amstaffs are GREAT with children :mad:

One match that was 100% was the Harrier...Always liked the way they looked, but I have known one personally.

[bubbatd]

Tollers are more hyper than Goldens. If a house is big enough for you, it's big enough for a Golden.

[tiivi]

I didn't mean that Golden would be too big to fit here. I just meant that I don't feel that the breed fits for me. I know a few and they are all lovely, but not really the type that I want for myself.