K9 European Protection Program

[Whitedobelover]

Okay So i recieved an email from the guy that is on this site... i inquired to see what would be said and see what kind of people are out there... and he replied dobermans arent for protection oh wait ill post the email... hehehe

~~~~~~I am afraid that your dog will not protect you. With the Doberman it is very difficult to get a good one with a normal brain. This type of dogs is not just anymore as a protection dog. They are very beautiful but I am sorry not good in protection work. Maybe from 100 Dobermans 2 will be good.


this isnt very good and i would like well to say that dobermans in my opinion are better than germans...no offense german girl :D hehehe... but for protection i believe theya re better... hehehe

[Zoom]

I think I'd believe the guy who has had almost 30 years experience in training protection dogs...any dog will react to an immediate threat, but as for disciplined protection...I think there's a reason the Belgian group and GSD's are so popular.

[doberkim]

its just because it takes a better trainer to train a doberman. :) (joke here)

personally, i think dobes have more intuitive protective natures than most other breeds.

in terms of mals, i think of them as the BC of the bite sport world - if you want to win in agility, get a BC. if you want a top obedience dog, get a golden. if you want a podium dog in bite sport, get a mal. highly trainable dogs, each one of them.

however, dobes not being podium dogs (OFTEN - though please note, agir and butch are consistently placing higher than EVERY other breed in the trials they go to, including DVG nationals!) - does not mean they are bad at the job. they work much differently than a GSD or a mal, and the sport was not designed for them (as it was for GSDs).

we all have our favorite breeds - however, saying a doberman will not protect you is a serious lie - in 100 dogs, i think at least 75-80% of them WILL protect you when push comes to shove, without ANY training, when the threat is an actual threat in real life.

and always remember, while its fun, amazing to watch, etc - schutzhund is still a sport. your opinion of a breed will be formed by the ones you see - and if all you see is poorly bred, poor temperaments and horrible structure, you will think that of the dobe breed. each breed has its good and bad representatives.

not being the top dog in the field doesnt make a breed bad at it - one of the best things regarding dobermans, IMO, is that they ARE such versatile dogs and easily go from bite sport to agility, obedience to tracking, therapy work to family pets, and can do SO MANY jobs and do them well! i think dobermans are just those "do it all" kinda breeds.

[yuckaduck]

Alex has been training for a long time and I would trust his opinion. I think it is not necessarily that if a person on the street attack you then ya your dog would react. For personal protection training, they are not the best. You also have to consider that there are some really bad breeders out there and that affects opinions too.

[AmberwayGSD]

Sorry but I disagree with him here.I sold my Male Trained Doberman as a Police dog.He is doing wonderful.German Shepherds are a little easier to train for Protection though.Dobermans and Rotties are amazing Protection Dogs.My Dobes wouldnt let strange people in our home yard.If strange people tried to start crap on our walks they would be met by Guard Dobes.

[doberkim]

Alex has been training for a long time and I would trust his opinion. I think it is not necessarily that if a person on the street attack you then ya your dog would react. For personal protection training, they are not the best. You also have to consider that there are some really bad breeders out there and that affects opinions too.


well, there are a lot of trainers out there with significant breed bias who simply wont train some dogs - many trainers cannot train dobermans and therefore will not allow them into the club. i mean, look at the supreme of all idiots, frawley, who doesnt like it if its isnt sporting a longer coat, long tail, and pointy ears and comes in sable.

being unable to train a dog does not make it unsuitable for the job.

i would also beg to differ - while many dogs will defend an owner, the doberman was the breed specifically designed to protect their OWNER and to take down a person. many dogs will NOT physically protect their owners when threatened on the streets - heck, i can think of quite a few protection trained GSDs that ran when faced with a civil threat :)

i know of a woman who lives in NY, who owns strictly show line dobermans - doesnt compete, simply has one doberman at a time that is purely her pet - the lines are primarily show dobes, though they of course go back to tess's vom arhtal lines. her doberman - a male that had never been working in bite sport, played at the park every day and enjoyed the pampered life of a pet, sent someone to the hospital when they tried to mug her while she was walking the streets at night. this doberman had no training to bite or protect -he took the mugger down and physically did not let go until the police arrived. THAT is what a doberman was bred to do. he never bit anyone prior to that, and never bit anyone after.


saying it is hard to get a dobe with a "normal brain" is just a little ridiculous. it just seems like its harder and harder to find a good trainer with a "normal brain" :)

[Zoom]

I'm wondering where the normal brain comment came from myself. Maybe it's because he's European and they train differently? I really don't know, I know very little about Dobes and next to nothing about Schutzhund except what I see on the Discovery Channel.

[oriondw]

He probably meant American Bred dogs as well. ;)

[oriondw]

I'm wondering where the normal brain comment came from myself. Maybe it's because he's European and they train differently? I really don't know, I know very little about Dobes and next to nothing about Schutzhund except what I see on the Discovery Channel.


Americans GSD's, Dobes and Rotts are VERY different from Their European Counterparts.

[Zoom]

I knew that; at least conformation wise, and that much of the "hardness" has been bred out for Am. show rings. Which is why I'm looking at German line Rotties for my next dog. They just come across as a bit more solid.

So, does most of Europe think Americans all have wussy dogs then? Just out of curiosity.

[oriondw]

I knew that; at least conformation wise, and that much of the "hardness" has been bred out for Am. show rings. Which is why I'm looking at German line Rotties for my next dog. They just come across as a bit more solid.

So, does most of Europe think Americans all have wussy dogs then? Just out of curiosity.


Well, its not like its not true...

[doberkim]

someone who works KNPV mals is never going to be happy with a dobe :) it has nothing to do with a dog being unable to protect - and schutzhund is like playing with your stuffed animals if you are looking at KNPV work. not being the best at a job, does not make a dog the worst.

at that level, it has nothing to do with US v. euro -- KNPV takes things to a level that most dogs, PERIOD - cant handle (forget what breed).

[Zoom]

KNPV?

[yuckaduck]

I'm wondering where the normal brain comment came from myself. Maybe it's because he's European and they train differently? I really don't know, I know very little about Dobes and next to nothing about Schutzhund except what I see on the Discovery Channel.


Schutzhund is nothing more then a sport. It is not protection training and it is not police training. It is a sport, a dog trained to chase a big shew toy and hold on to it. It is mearly a sport nothing more. Yes the dogs are awesome in what they can do not belittleing that but it is only a sport. To protection train is something totally different. Dobes were originaly bred to protect their master but with the byb's and the down right bad breeders the temperment of the dobes has changed significantly. I think that is where the normal brains comment came from. With such poor breeding practices, it is hard to find normal brained dobes. That does not mean that all dobes are bad either. I know Lisa speaks the truth about her male dobe, it is a working police dog and it has a normal brain. WHy she was a responsible breeder not a byb.

[AmberwayGSD]

Yup he came from amazing bloodlines though.Some people have only dealt with their breed of choice though.I see many GSDs,Dobes,Rotties,Mals and Dutch Shepherds that are wonderful Police dogs.

[doberkim]

what lines was he from and what lines did you breed? what was your kennel name? just curious to know if ive heard of you :)

[Whitedobelover]

a brain is a brain it doesnt change from america to europe no matter how you do it. lol unless we go in and start cutting parts of the brains out.... so please elaborate how a brain could change here let me ask kim she is in vet school can a dogs brain change or no....... i seriously doubt it... but you would know before anyone.

[Whitedobelover]

so as i wanted your opinion on this kim so as you can set this straight because i knew you and german and I have all had dobermans most of our lives if im not mistaken... then how can one person say this.. lol he trains GSDs but I have a lady here in Everett who has trained only GSDs also and thinks dobermans are great at Schutzhund... and she is looking forward to Prince being apart of her class... and she wants to work personally with him because he is a doberman and she loves working with them and has said they are easier to her to work with than GSDs... but that was her opinion

[blue]

a brain is a brain it doesnt change from america to europe no matter how you do it. lol unless we go in and start cutting parts of the brains out.... so please elaborate how a brain could change here let me ask kim she is in vet school can a dogs brain change or no....... i seriously doubt it... but you would know before anyone.

Im going out on a limb here......

If you breed any animal humans included in a really inapropriate manner, incest, BYB you are going to wind up with mental defficiencies.

[Zoom]

Im going out on a limb here......

If you breed any animal humans included in a really inapropriate manner, incest, BYB you are going to wind up with mental defficiencies.

You beat me to it.

[Mordy]

Schutzhund is nothing more then a sport.

actually, it is supposed to be mnore than a sport - it's a test that was originally developed to determine the best breeding stock for german shepherds.

but like many other fields, it opened up to other breeds as well.

personally i know quite a number of folks (in germany) who participate in schutzhund with rottweilers, dobes and giant schnauzers and all of them do quite well.

as for the american bred vs. german bred (i won't say european here, since most of my experience is based on germany), yes, there are often huge differences. here in the US many breeders like to produce animals that are larger and heavier instead of aiming for a good average size as per standard, and breeding for rarer colors also seems to be more common.

[yuckaduck]

I know here in Canada when I started researching breeding gsd's everyone on the forums told me to get into a sport like schutzhund. I went to the two main importers here in Canada and they told me please do not waste your time and energy with a sport. THey do not care if the dog can go chase a human chew toy or if a dog can follow footstpes. THe tracking part of schutzhund is a joke because if that dog was applied to real life tracking you could only hope for a very slow crook. I was seriously thinking of getting into the sport; I thought it would be a great way to test a dog to see if it had the drive and the work ability that I am looking for before breeding. But alas that is not the case, they want working lines and retired policing dogs to boot. If there is any show lines at all they are not interested, no matter how much drive they show. So for me I will not be wasting my time and money on sports things because that is not what I will be breeding for.

[sheps4me]

actually, it is supposed to be mnore than a sport - it's a test that was originally developed to determine the best breeding stock for german shepherds.

but like many other fields, it opened up to other breeds as well.

personally i know quite a number of folks (in germany) who participate in schutzhund with rottweilers, dobes and giant schnauzers and all of them do quite well.


Yes, Schutzhund is a sport but a very demanding one and still serves as a very good test of breeding stock, particularly if the breeder trains their own dogs. It's a very rigorous, demanding and time-consuming sport and is designed to reveal each dog's character and working ability.
Mordy - Rotties and Dobes do Schutzhund in Canada too - and Malinois are also very popular in the sport.

[sheps4me]

I know here in Canada when I started researching breeding gsd's everyone on the forums told me to get into a sport like schutzhund. I went to the two main importers here in Canada and they told me please do not waste your time and energy with a sport. THey do not care if the dog can go chase a human chew toy or if a dog can follow footstpes..

Human chew toy? LOL I've never heard that term before. The dogs are supposed to chase and grip the sleeve .. no chewing allowed :rolleyes: I wonder how these "importers" test the temperament of the dogs they're selling?

THe tracking part of schutzhund is a joke because if that dog was applied to real life tracking you could only hope for a very slow crook...

If you've ever seen a Schutzhund dog fly down a track, you'd realize that their tracking ability is no joke. It's not uncommon for them to achieve titles in both Schutzhund and CKC-style tracking. They're proven trackers!

I was seriously thinking of getting into the sport; I thought it would be a great way to test a dog to see if it had the drive and the work ability that I am looking for before breeding. But alas that is not the case, they want working lines and retired policing dogs to boot. If there is any show lines at all they are not interested, no matter how much drive they show. So for me I will not be wasting my time and money on sports things because that is not what I will be breeding for.

You might want to spend some time at a Schutzhund club or attend a few trials. Not only will you see different breeds, but there are both working and show lines titling in the sport. Rather than being a waste of time and money, the sport tests your own training abilities and your dog's nerve and character. It's incredibly demanding but the rewards are many.

I have to wonder - what are you planning to breed for? The German shepherd is supposed to be a working dog - how will you test your breeding stock?

[yuckaduck]

what are you planning to breed for? The German shepherd is supposed to be a working dog - how will you test your breeding stock?

Exactly they are a working dog, my dogs will have the altimate test, they will be retired from what they are being breed for. If they can't do the job then they ain't for me. I got into an arguement on another forum about breeding HOPE. Well she will not be determined a breeding dog until she is tested temperment and health wise and then she will need to be trained and put in the field. If she cannot achieve that then she is a family pet and nothing more.

BTW I am not a trainer I have a hired trainer for that because my training ability is not good because I have no experience past sit, stay, down, heel, come. I can do the basics but then off to someone who knows what they are doing.

Oh forgot to mention-I do not pick my breeding dogs that is done by my trainer and by a breeder who I trust whole heartedly. I am not able to make those choices, not enough experience.

[sheps4me]

Exactly they are a working dog, my dogs will have the altimate test, they will be retired from what they are being breed for. If they can't do the job then they ain't for me. I got into an arguement on another forum about breeding HOPE. Well she will not be determined a breeding dog until she is tested temperment and health wise and then she will need to be trained and put in the field. If she cannot achieve that then she is a family pet and nothing more.

BTW I am not a trainer I have a hired trainer for that because my training ability is not good because I have no experience past sit, stay, down, heel, come. I can do the basics but then off to someone who knows what they are doing.

Oh forgot to mention-I do not pick my breeding dogs that is done by my trainer and by a breeder who I trust whole heartedly. I am not able to make those choices, not enough experience.

What do you consider the "ultimate test"?

If you don't consider yourself a trainer and you don't currently have the experience to choose and evaluate your own breeding stock, then are you planning to wait until you do gain that experience? How will you evaluate and test puppies - and place them in appropriate homes - if you can't test your own dogs?

Re: Hope. Isn't she a rescue? I wholeheartedly believe that rescued dogs make wonderful pets but they are NOT for breeding. You may be able to do health and temperament checks on her (I don't know what you mean by putting her in the "field"), but how will you know her background info? The health of her parents, grandparents, etc.? The health of any siblings? Any temperament issues in her background?

[yuckaduck]

What do you consider the "ultimate test"?

If you don't consider yourself a trainer and you don't currently have the experience to choose and evaluate your own breeding stock, then are you planning to wait until you do gain that experience? How will you evaluate and test puppies - and place them in appropriate homes - if you can't test your own dogs?

Re: Hope. Isn't she a rescue? I wholeheartedly believe that rescued dogs make wonderful pets but they are NOT for breeding. You may be able to do health and temperament checks on her (I don't know what you mean by putting her in the "field"), but how will you know her background info? The health of her parents, grandparents, etc.? The health of any siblings? Any temperament issues in her background?


You know what I have argued this point way to many times on another forum and am not getting into it here. Hope is registered and it is not that diffcult to track down the grandparents and the parents. Why would I evaluate the puppies, I pay someone to do that for me. I have no need to further my training when I pay someone to do it for me. Appropriate homes will be working homes only! The ulitmate test is actually getting out there and doing the work that I am breeding for. I want to see the dog do what I want to breed for. As far as HOPE goes, no clue if she is for breeding or not so not going to argue that point at all. She is 8 months old and so she is not an option before she is 2 years old anyway. That gives my trainer time to see if she has any kind of drive or even has the ability to do what we want. I am not willing to share much information about my breeding because I am breeding for a specific thing and I do not wish to share it with you. I do not need people emailing me and starting at me about my plans. It has been well researched and I have taken the time to consult two different breeders to make sure I am able to be responsible and create my own reputable reputation. My breeding program will not be public at all because it is for me and my hubby to decide what is right and what is not. I have argued and explained myself enough and come to the conclusion that the people that are involved in what I wish to do are the ones I will listen too whole heartedly. If they tell em a dog is not good breeding stock then I will follow that and that dog will be altered and re homed. Just like any responsible breeder would do!

BTW this is not directed at just you it is to everyone who wants to sayy how horrible I am because I will not be reading those threads I will just skip them. My breeding will be kept private as faras the details because it is no one else's business but mine and my family's.

[sheps4me]

You know what I have argued this point way to many times on another forum and am not getting into it here. Hope is registered and it is not that diffcult to track down the grandparents and the parents. Why would I evaluate the puppies, I pay someone to do that for me. I have no need to further my training when I pay someone to do it for me. Appropriate homes will be working homes only! The ulitmate test is actually getting out there and doing the work that I am breeding for. I want to see the dog do what I want to breed for. As far as HOPE goes, no clue if she is for breeding or not so not going to argue that point at all. She is 8 months old and so she is not an option before she is 2 years old anyway. That gives my trainer time to see if she has any kind of drive or even has the ability to do what we want. I am not willing to share much information about my breeding because I am breeding for a specific thing and I do not wish to share it with you. I do not need people emailing me and starting at me about my plans. It has been well researched and I have taken the time to consult two different breeders to make sure I am able to be responsible and create my own reputable reputation. My breeding program will not be public at all because it is for me and my hubby to decide what is right and what is not. I have argued and explained myself enough and come to the conclusion that the people that are involved in what I wish to do are the ones I will listen too whole heartedly. If they tell em a dog is not good breeding stock then I will follow that and that dog will be altered and re homed. Just like any responsible breeder would do!

BTW this is not directed at just you it is to everyone who wants to sayy how horrible I am because I will not be reading those threads I will just skip them. My breeding will be kept private as faras the details because it is no one else's business but mine and my family's.

I'm going to assume that the "specific thing" you're planning to breed for sometime in the future is dogs that have the ability to work in a K-9 program. Great - it's nice to have dreams and goals. But if you're not experienced in training working lines and you have no experience (and don't plan to acquire any) in breeding, whelping and temperament testing, then I have to wonder what your role is going to be as a "breeder". Good, responsible breeders know their breeding stock inside and out, and can subsequently evaluate their puppies based on the knowledge they've gained by working and raising their own dogs. That's what puppy buyers rely on - even when they're going to working homes.
If you say your puppies are going to enter a police program, then what will you do with the dogs that wash out of the program? Not all pups from each litter have what it takes to do the work. You're going to have a combination of pets and working dogs (if you're lucky) and even those pets may have more drive than the average home can handle.
It's fine to have a vision for the future but you have to look at the long term. And this is all assuming that one day you'll be looking for breeding stock that is registered and proven in working ability - not rescue dogs from unknown lineage.
Oh, and before you get all concerned about people asking questions and offering opinions about your proposed breeding program - do keep in mind that you're posting in a public forum for all to read. I imagine that there's more than one "rescue" person here who is alarmed at the direction you're planning to take in breeding.

[Gempress]

I have to agree with sheps4me on this one.

they will be retired from what they are being breed for

Yuck, if I remember right, police/working dogs in the states are retired at 10 years old. I think that's too old for breeding.

[yuckaduck]

looking for breeding stock that is registered and proven in working ability - not rescue dogs from unknown lineage.

Whatever gave you the idea that the only dogs I have for breeding are unregistered, unproven and rescue dogs. Non are unregistered, non will be bred until proven and the only rescue is HOPE and no discission is made on her so she is not even part of the equation, therefore non are rescue dogs. you know nothing of me at all and you know nothing of my dogs! That is why I am not willing to share every detail with you this is a public forum and I think business wise I am entitled to some privacy.

[Vega]

Ultimate Protection = Fila > Doberman, Shepherd, Rottweiler :o :D

[oriondw]

Ultimate Protection = Fila > Doberman, Shepherd, Rottweiler :o :D


Obviously.

[yuckaduck]

Yuck, if I remember right, police/working dogs in the states are retired at 10 years old. I think that's too old for breeding.

Way too old to breed with and I live in Canada. I have made arrangements with a few importers that I have been getting to know to get some retired dogs that are a bit younger. Got a really nice female here that is three years old. Retired due to injury that stops her from preforming up to snuff but has no effect on her breeding career. She is a great dog too! There is one here in Ontario that is 12 years old and still working on the street so of course that is not a dog for me.

[sheps4me]

Whatever gave you the idea that the only dogs I have for breeding are unregistered, unproven and rescue dogs. Non are unregistered, non will be bred until proven and the only rescue is HOPE and no discission is made on her so she is not even part of the equation, therefore non are rescue dogs. you know nothing of me at all and you know nothing of my dogs! That is why I am not willing to share every detail with you this is a public forum and I think business wise I am entitled to some privacy.

Here's what gave me the idea: ;)

I got into an arguement on another forum about breeding HOPE. Well she will not be determined a breeding dog until she is tested temperment and health wise and then she will need to be trained and put in the field. If she cannot achieve that then she is a family pet and nothing more.

The fact that you are planning to test her health and temperament for potential breeding puts her into the equation. And yes, that is your business but you did put the information out there. People tend to be very passionate about their breed of choice and when we hear that someone is going to get into breeding, but doesn't plan to train and knows little about breeding and temperament testing, well, it tends to raise some concern. Since you take in rescue dogs, I'm sure you aware of the vast numbers of shepherds in shelters across North America. I would imagine that most of them started out as well-intentioned pups too!

[yuckaduck]

Back to the topic, I trust Alex fully in his train of thought for thinking about Dobes not as the best protection dogs if you look at some of the bad breeders. I think it is just because of what he trains that he feels this way, we all have our breed of choice and we all have our breed of unchoice. :D

Personally I think the dobes are a very beautiful dog, and I would never think twice about crossing them, would never happen they were intentionally bred to be protective and I believe they are able to fulfill that to a point.

[AmberwayGSD]

The Doberman Lines I Bred were Solar Kennel Lines and also Moonthunders.I didnt have a kennel name.I only Bred One Litter that produced 4 Puppies.One Female is in a Companion Home.One Male is in A Show and Breeding Home.One Male is in A Companion Home.The Pick of The litter I kept but than he went out as a Police Service Dog.Another Breeder bought my female after the First litter.

[yuckaduck]

The Doberman Lines I Bred were Solar Kennel Lines and also Moonthunders.I didnt have a kennel name.I only Bred One Litter that produced 4 Puppies.One Female is in a Companion Home.One Male is in A Show and Breeding Home.One Male is in A Companion Home.The Pick of The litter I kept but than he went out as a Police Service Dog.Another Breeder bought my female after the First litter.


Awesome dogs you had.

[AmberwayGSD]

My Bitch was out of Tornado from Solar Kennels.Very great breeder.I always recommend them.

[doberkim]

er --- without getting into it, shep4me i agree - even considering breeding a dog (even if it has a pedigree) that was a rescue -- wow, that just makes me lose respect for a person.

yuck - so what exactly IS the work you are breeding for - you repeatedly say they will have to do the work you breed for, but you have yet to indicate what actual work you are breeding them for. isnt breeding before you have trained, titled, and explored the breed further to its working potential a little "putting the cart before the horse" -- i would expect a breeder of true working dogs would understand and know how to work a dog first before they pump out a litter - its not an entry level position.


going further back - actually, i know someone that has many dogs from solar kennels, she has some awesome pups! however, not to argue points, but i think its funny yuck supports that dog, but solar dogs are purely show lines, arent they :) they have a litter right now out of sequoia, i think hes a VERY handsome dog and has a great head (i will admit, i am a head fanatic!)

the KNPV is the dutch police dog association - if you google it you can get some links, i am sure. its a very rigorous program and it takes a good dog to get through. im simply saying if you want a dog with the neverending drive and such of a mal (if youve never met a mal, its like taking a GSD and giving it methamphetamine in many ways :) ), then taking other dogs will never make you happy.

and again - i dont know why you would look at a bad breeder and use their dogs to prove that dobes cannot work. why use BAD breeders as an example? bad breeders are bad breeders for a REASON - for their failure to responsibly, ethically, produce dogs that better the breed.

[doberkim]

My Bitch was out of Tornado from Solar Kennels.Very great breeder.I always recommend them.

i just checked out tornado - shes an awesome looking girl!
do you have more pics of your dogs? what happened to your dobes? (sorry, new here!)

my guy is a rescue, but hopefully in the near future i have a pup coming my way ... this pup has a lot to live up to :)

[AmberwayGSD]

Yes Solar are Show Lines so is Moonthunder.So are the breeders I am getting my Show GSD from.Some people like show lines some dont.Yes the current litter that The Marshalls have are very cute.Daddy and mom are wonderful dogs.

[AmberwayGSD]

No thats it for pics.I dont have a digital camera.They have beautiful Dogs.Trinity my Bitch went to another Breeder.Cheech my Pick went out as a Police Dog.I had to get rid of them after my accident.Now I am healed so I can get back into Dogs.

[yuckaduck]

solar dogs are purely show lines, arent they they have a litter right now out of sequoia.

So I am not allowed to admire beautiful dogs because they are show dogs. :rolleyes:

Maybe you ought to post your rules before I post anymore on what I can like and dislike. :rolleyes:

[AmberwayGSD]

You can like whatever you want to.You better like my Show GSD or I will get you lol.

[yuckaduck]

You can like whatever you want to.You better like my Show GSD or I will get you lol.


Was not directed at you. You know how responsible my breeding will be and the quality of my dogs. Just like I know the quality of your dogs too. Of course I will love your pup, I mean it is yours right. :D

[AmberwayGSD]

I know.I was just saying.Some people just dont understand that you are mainly breeding for Police Dogs.I Am going to be Breeding Work and Show.I want to get rid of this over angulation crap all over the Show Ring in the GSDs.Just wait till you see her Pedigree.Man I will have fun kicking butt in the Ring.

[yuckaduck]

I know.I was just saying.Some people just dont understand that you are mainly breeding for Police Dogs.I Am going to be Breeding Work and Show.I want to get rid of this over angulation crap all over the Show Ring in the GSDs.Just wait till you see her Pedigree.Man I will have fun kicking butt in the Ring.


You go girl!

[AmberwayGSD]

Just wait till I kick Damax Kennelss butt in the ring.The dog there are very ugly lol.I may be biased now though lol.

[doberkim]

So I am not allowed to admire beautiful dogs because they are show dogs. :rolleyes:

Maybe you ought to post your rules before I post anymore on what I can like and dislike. :rolleyes:


well, were talking about working breeds here and bad breeders, ruining temperaments in dogs. the extension of that is almost always that "show breeders" dont care for temperament or working ability. maybe i made an assumption that you would continue with this notion as others have done prior to this - i am just pointing out that this is not a working line of dogs, and in this thread we have already picked apart american v. euro dogs and show v. working dogs. no need to get all in a tizzy about it! it was a joke, hence the smilie face.

GSGurl-


sorry about your accident, i didnt realize you were in one! have you decided which breeder you are getting your GSD from? ive looked at a ton of breeders for my potential dobe pup, but im finding it hard to commit to one now! ive grown up with GSD's and my family currently has 2 (my grandfather trains at the main kennel for the seeing eye, and his two GSDs back in NJ are currently from their breeding program), but I have to admit that dobe's are my main passion - though I LOVE a good bicolor bitch - i think i just have a thing for black and tan :)

id also love a well-bred rottie - ive looked at esmond rotties recently, but i am so far away from actually obtaining a rottie! ill probably adopt a rescued bitch soon and prepare more for a future puppy, depending on what litters actually hit the ground!

do you currently show your GSD (in your sig)?

[AmberwayGSD]

well, were talking about working breeds here and bad breeders, ruining temperaments in dogs. the extension of that is almost always that "show breeders" dont care for temperament or working ability. maybe i made an assumption that you would continue with this notion as others have done prior to this - i am just pointing out that this is not a working line of dogs, and in this thread we have already picked apart american v. euro dogs and show v. working dogs. no need to get all in a tizzy about it! it was a joke, hence the smilie face.

GSGurl-


sorry about your accident, i didnt realize you were in one! have you decided which breeder you are getting your GSD from? ive looked at a ton of breeders for my potential dobe pup, but im finding it hard to commit to one now! ive grown up with GSD's and my family currently has 2 (my grandfather trains at the main kennel for the seeing eye, and his two GSDs back in NJ are currently from their breeding program), but I have to admit that dobe's are my main passion - though I LOVE a good bicolor bitch - i think i just have a thing for black and tan :)

id also love a well-bred rottie - ive looked at esmond rotties recently, but i am so far away from actually obtaining a rottie! ill probably adopt a rescued bitch soon and prepare more for a future puppy, depending on what litters actually hit the ground!

do you currently show your GSD (in your sig)?
No She is a Limited Registration and for now her color is a fault.She is getting more Black though so soon will be a Sable lol.I have it narrowed down to 2 kennels.I have an appointment on Monday at 5 pm.So if all goes well they will approve me.One Kennel Breeds American Showlines.The Other Breeds German Showlines.I like both so its a hard decision.Where are you Located.I know a few good Rottie Breeders here.

[doberkim]

im in the US - in new england (MA to be specific) - but i would never limit my breeders to locations, as i would drive across the country to get the right pup, and its unlikely the best breeder will be the one in my backyard!

definitely let me know if you know of anyone!

[AmberwayGSD]

Pm me and I will give you a few websites to my favorite Rottie Breeders.